So much talent and demand the ABA was born and actually did well.

TV viewership is way up over the years. Every team has a cable deal.

The league was that much better when Joe C. Merriweather was a starting center? Joe Barry Carrol was the overall no.1 pick?

Was Louis Orr and Toby Knight really NBA quality?

Would Dr. J really be that great in this era?

I think todays athlete is bigger, faster and stronger and maybe there are fewer standouts because overall quality is up?

Maybe Fundamentals are lower now?

Also back in the day a guy had a bad knee he was cooked. Today they can rebuild. Clyde was cooked by age 32. Willis was cooked by like 28 years old. Today they could play a few more years at a higher level.

Back in the day players did not develope as they do now. Compare Dwight howard to Darryl Dawkins. If dawkins was properly trained he is could have been a total monster. In the Cocaine and weed era many players fell off. David Thompson had bad coke habit. He was better than Jordan. Maybe earlier intervention as they do now is actually developing players earlier than letting them fall off.

My point, I think parity exists among players which is why you have fewer stars now.

LeBron says...

"IT DOESN'T MATTER what LeBron says!"

You have players like Baron Davis, Stephon Marbury, Tim Thomas, Eddy Curry, Vince Carter and a bunch of guys that think they are more important then they are and just give a half ass effort and don't get into shape and don't care bleeding teams financially and setting a bad example for younger players. You have scrubs making 5-10MM a season when they would be lucky getting 1M. The 80s were that way because the players went at it and really cared. How talented were Starks, Oakley and Mason? They worked there asses off and didn't take it for granted and the Knicks were a force because of that. The salary structure is the problem.

Rashard Lewis is the second highest paid player in the NBA. And teams have to pay guys or lose them. Guys like Iggy, RJ, Mike Conley, Joe Johnson. These contracts are a disgrace.

Everyone has a problem with something. The age limit is racist? How? Who does it benefit. The veterans that get the roster spot that would go to some kid that isn't mature and hasn't worked his ass off and is just a natural talent. Some team wastes a pic on upside and there franchise is ****ed.

Superstars that can fill areas like Lebron, Kobe, Howard, Amare are worth the cash. It's the lesser talents that think they are All Stars that kill the league and create a huge divide out there.

It falls all the same people that are re-hired in the front office or as coaches that can't do the job to begin with.

Allanfan20 wrote:

The age limit is racist? How? Who does it benefit. The veterans that get the roster spot that would go to some kid that isn't mature and hasn't worked his ass off and is just a natural talent. Some team wastes a pic on upside and there franchise is ****ed.

That's what I'm saying man. I don't know who on this thread said it was racist b/c I didn't read all the posts, but we've had this discussion before and I have two posters in mind that do believe it is racist. I wont mention their names.

It's about product quality. Just as an accounting firm would want their accountants to have a bachelors degree, the NBA needs to realize that their product quality goes up as players get more college experience.... or if guys are flat out top 5 players. Yet how many of them are? Not many. The competitive nature of the league will increase and teams will get better once more players get better as opposed to "just" having more potential.

MY thoughts as well, take a look at a young stubborn straight from HS "Amare"...If he approach the game 4 years ago as he approach it today, he would have a ring already, KG wouldn't have sat there for 7 years padded his stats, and take 70% of the wolves cap, handcuff them into putting a bunch of half ass players around him, then he dicides 8 years later to re do his contrat to bring spree and sam in...

Then LBJ talks about consolidating the league, when him and his two coharts have absorbed 85% of miami's cap..This also falls backs on owners as well as GM's..You can't give darko 20 mill, then go to a meeting and say your losing money.

Stern sounds like a complete jack ass when he talks about taking money back from a player who signed a contract to be paid a certain amount of money..maybe this could be change going FWD....

Players maybe getting paid more money, but that goes with the times

If a kid is talented enought to play in this young ass NBA, then have some sort of fundamental basketball exam..idk just a thought..but this league needs more Landry fields, as oppose to more high flying acts

Lebron wrote:"For me, the Knicks haven't been good in my reign since I played basketball, so I wouldn't know.

In your "reign"? WTF are you talking about? What have you won, you douche bag?

Uptown wrote:

TymeLessKnicks wrote:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/news/story?id=5952952

is he right? has the league spread too thin?

i think this is such an obvious (and punk) thing for him to say...

sorry LeBron, i dont want a league of super friends.

Superfriends? You mean like Bird, McHale and Parrish? 3 hall of famers on one team. Or how about Magic, Kareem, and Worthy? 3 more hall of famers on one team. How about Dr. J, Moses, and Barkley on one team? Cant deny how much fun those teams were fun to watch. The league was much better in the 80's before expansion got out of control.

The Milwaukee Bucks of the mid 80's, a team that couldnt get out of the 2nd round then, would be a championship contender today, no question.

it wasn't a league full of stars on every team back when Magic, Bird & Jordan were in their heyday, the guys that Lebron grew up watching & idolizing... i think his perception of the league back then is skewed because he's only ever been concerned about the stars of the game, but the truth is there were plenty of crappy ass teams back then as well... i think it has less to do with expansion & more to do w/the salary cap, luxury tax & free agency that has watered down the level of talent around the league among teams... the big market teams can no longer monopolize all the great star players because of cap restrictions... middle level allstar players have to now seek their lucrative contract deals with smaller market teams that can't afford the elite names... sure it would be great to see guys like Devin Harris, Danny Granger or Brooke Lopez playing on teams with other big name stars, but the current CBA structure makes this very hard to do.

Kevin Durant stepped up and signed long term with a team that would have been contracted and ensured a city a team and a presence for years to come. Had Lebron done the same thing in Cleveland the same goes for the CAVS. That's the problem. Losing stars and GMs not being intelligent enough to make the right deals at the right time is the problem.

The Suns are a perfect example. They gave away Deng and Rondo for luxury tax reasons and didn't sign JJ to a modest contract when they had the chance. Instead of moving Amare for young pieces they overpay Frye, Warrick and trade for Hedo. Try being a suns fan!

The Raptors needed to move Bosh, but didn't and came away with nothing. They had a GM that took a player not in the NBA over Iggy and traded Vince Carter for journeymen.

Cleveland for whatever reason thought it would be a good idea to try real hard this season when they should have accepted Beasley in a sign and trade, packaged Varejo and moved Mo Williams for younger talent and positioned themselves in the draft.

Kevin McHale, Isiah Thomas, Michael Jordan. Legends that kill franchises. Where would the Bobcats be if they had an actual GM that didn't let there best player go and give big money deals to Matt Carrol, Nazar and draft Gerald Henderson and Adam Morrison.

The league has plenty of talent, but again it takes time to mature and that's why the age limit is a good thing. You can't give guys big money contracts that don't know anything about money. Again it's not racist it's prudent. We had a lockout back in 1999 and the players were having trouble making ends meet because they are living pay check to pay check. Allen Iverson never more than 10G's in the bank while making 20M!

David Stern is part of the solution. Young kids want to be NBA players. And I think many of us do. The dresscode another thing that was a smart move. These guys are role models like it or not for kids. Guys like Ray Allen, Wade, Kobe, Jordan looking sharp and being ambassadors to the game is what the league needs.

It all flows together. The older you are the better you are, the more responsible you are, and the better the NBA is.

As Knicks fans we should appreciate the stable influence that Donnie Walsh has brought. Because if you believe what Lebron says the Knicks should have been absolved. The only thing that kept the ship from sinking is NYC.

Layden, Dolan, Isiah three men responsible for 10 years of pain. Smart people and a team that cares is what makes the NBA what it is. And thankfully we have both.

TMS wrote:

Uptown wrote:

TymeLessKnicks wrote:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/news/story?id=5952952

is he right? has the league spread too thin?

i think this is such an obvious (and punk) thing for him to say...

sorry LeBron, i dont want a league of super friends.

Superfriends? You mean like Bird, McHale and Parrish? 3 hall of famers on one team. Or how about Magic, Kareem, and Worthy? 3 more hall of famers on one team. How about Dr. J, Moses, and Barkley on one team? Cant deny how much fun those teams were fun to watch. The league was much better in the 80's before expansion got out of control.

The Milwaukee Bucks of the mid 80's, a team that couldnt get out of the 2nd round then, would be a championship contender today, no question.

it wasn't a league full of stars on every team back when Magic, Bird & Jordan were in their heyday, the guys that Lebron grew up watching & idolizing... i think his perception of the league back then is skewed because he's only ever been concerned about the stars of the game, but the truth is there were plenty of crappy ass teams back then as well... i think it has less to do with expansion & more to do w/the salary cap, luxury tax & free agency that has watered down the level of talent around the league among teams... the big market teams can no longer monopolize all the great star players because of cap restrictions... middle level allstar players have to now seek their lucrative contract deals with smaller market teams that can't afford the elite names... sure it would be great to see guys like Devin Harris, Danny Granger or Brooke Lopez playing on teams with other big name stars, but the current CBA structure makes this very hard to do.

You dont think the NBA product could benefit from chopping 2-4 teams? Its not about aligning the stars so to speak, but theres just too many teams, and too many average to below average players occupying roster spots IMO.

Uptown wrote:

TMS wrote:

Uptown wrote:

TymeLessKnicks wrote:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/news/story?id=5952952

is he right? has the league spread too thin?

i think this is such an obvious (and punk) thing for him to say...

sorry LeBron, i dont want a league of super friends.

Superfriends? You mean like Bird, McHale and Parrish? 3 hall of famers on one team. Or how about Magic, Kareem, and Worthy? 3 more hall of famers on one team. How about Dr. J, Moses, and Barkley on one team? Cant deny how much fun those teams were fun to watch. The league was much better in the 80's before expansion got out of control.

The Milwaukee Bucks of the mid 80's, a team that couldnt get out of the 2nd round then, would be a championship contender today, no question.

it wasn't a league full of stars on every team back when Magic, Bird & Jordan were in their heyday, the guys that Lebron grew up watching & idolizing... i think his perception of the league back then is skewed because he's only ever been concerned about the stars of the game, but the truth is there were plenty of crappy ass teams back then as well... i think it has less to do with expansion & more to do w/the salary cap, luxury tax & free agency that has watered down the level of talent around the league among teams... the big market teams can no longer monopolize all the great star players because of cap restrictions... middle level allstar players have to now seek their lucrative contract deals with smaller market teams that can't afford the elite names... sure it would be great to see guys like Devin Harris, Danny Granger or Brooke Lopez playing on teams with other big name stars, but the current CBA structure makes this very hard to do.

You dont think the NBA product could benefit from chopping 2-4 teams? Its not about aligning the stars so to speak, but theres just too many teams, and too many average to below average players occupying roster spots IMO.

europe has a much larger professional basketball organisation. nba needs to grow not shrink. lebron is just a greedy douche. a better nba starts with a new cba that players like lebron wont like. from that will spring a more functional dleague where farm teams matter. on a related note, instead of the mcdonalds classic (barf) the nba needs to take control of the direction of youth basketball the way fiba does with the fiba europe under-16 championships and the fiba europe under-18 championships. [ps] fug the corrupt ncaa.

MS wrote:AMEN to contracts not being guaranteed. I have never seen a bigger buch of idiots getting paid and not realizing how lucky they are. Crawford demanding an extension in the offseason while he is getting paid 10M is that a joke. That should be superstar money. But it's become the norm for players that get theirs while playing no defense.

Kevin Durant stepped up and signed long term with a team that would have been contracted and ensured a city a team and a presence for years to come. Had Lebron done the same thing in Cleveland the same goes for the CAVS. That's the problem. Losing stars and GMs not being intelligent enough to make the right deals at the right time is the problem.

The Suns are a perfect example. They gave away Deng and Rondo for luxury tax reasons and didn't sign JJ to a modest contract when they had the chance. Instead of moving Amare for young pieces they overpay Frye, Warrick and trade for Hedo. Try being a suns fan!

The Raptors needed to move Bosh, but didn't and came away with nothing. They had a GM that took a player not in the NBA over Iggy and traded Vince Carter for journeymen.

Cleveland for whatever reason thought it would be a good idea to try real hard this season when they should have accepted Beasley in a sign and trade, packaged Varejo and moved Mo Williams for younger talent and positioned themselves in the draft.

Kevin McHale, Isiah Thomas, Michael Jordan. Legends that kill franchises. Where would the Bobcats be if they had an actual GM that didn't let there best player go and give big money deals to Matt Carrol, Nazar and draft Gerald Henderson and Adam Morrison.

The league has plenty of talent, but again it takes time to mature and that's why the age limit is a good thing. You can't give guys big money contracts that don't know anything about money. Again it's not racist it's prudent. We had a lockout back in 1999 and the players were having trouble making ends meet because they are living pay check to pay check. Allen Iverson never more than 10G's in the bank while making 20M!

David Stern is part of the solution. Young kids want to be NBA players. And I think many of us do. The dresscode another thing that was a smart move. These guys are role models like it or not for kids. Guys like Ray Allen, Wade, Kobe, Jordan looking sharp and being ambassadors to the game is what the league needs.

It all flows together. The older you are the better you are, the more responsible you are, and the better the NBA is.

As Knicks fans we should appreciate the stable influence that Donnie Walsh has brought. Because if you believe what Lebron says the Knicks should have been absolved. The only thing that kept the ship from sinking is NYC.

Layden, Dolan, Isiah three men responsible for 10 years of pain. Smart people and a team that cares is what makes the NBA what it is. And thankfully we have both.

THe age limit is not the problem. With the rookie salary cap, these young guys are not taking up all of a team's cap. The problem are the Eddy Curry's of the world. He is costing the Knicks $10 mil but has contributed nil to the team. I am against the age limit, but I am all for reducing the number of guaranteed years, and I think the players would go for that.

The worst team in history was the 1973 76ers.

There were teams like Cleveland, San Diego Clippers (before sterling!), Portland, and most expansion teams that really did suck. ABA also took many good players. Contraction of the ABA infused into the NBA in 1977 did put a jolt of talent into the league.

The international leagues are providing additional talent and that will only grow more and more.

I don't understand how we expand into Europe unless we absorb the Euroleagues better teams.

I remember plenty of teams has some real awful scrubs on their roster and has always had average journeyman on roster to fill gaps. Guys like Merriweather, Lohaus, Joe Wolf, and today Mikki Moore and Joe smith have always existed.

Today we are actually in a lull of "Stars" who define the league. Players are better but "Bird vs Magic", "Wilt vs Russell", "Jordan Vs the world" does not exist. Rivalry of teams are few and because these guys mostly don't go to college long and build conference rivalries that extend, and and they all "hang together" thru AAU ball and olympic love fests the lack of hate does not breed interest.

Thats what is missing. It was not "Oaks" talent, but his nasty. Xavier McDanaiels did not play very long but his nasty lasted. Mason and Starks were odd ball talents but the rivalry with Jordan and Indiana was the interest. Oak vs the Davis Boys, Ewing vs. Donky Dale and Smits. Mike Riordan/Jack Marin vs Bill Bradley, Gus Johnson vs. Dave Debussure, Clyde vs archie clark/Earl/Phil Chenier, Willis vs. Wilt, Clyde vs West, Celts vs Wilts 76ers, Celts vs. Lakers in 60's, Etc etc.

Playoff intensity, playing each other often makes for rivalries. Maybe we need more "leagues" like "American league vs. National league" to build some intensity. Knicks vs Lakers in regular season really does not matter. Its novel anyway.

NFL does not have all teams play each other, but in your division you play twice! Baseball has SOME interleague play but its really diluting the games importance. Division 1 NCAA basketball has mostly conference games. Those rivalries are what drives the season.

NBA goes to europe your going to have some of this anyway.

Do we want to see good players or good games? Then do the games make the players?

we need to create intensity which creates epic moments.