CrushAlot wrote:

cheers wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

martin wrote:

But Walsh quickly ruined that by continuing his thought, supporting Mike D'Antoni's decision to stick to a limited rotation during the last four weeks.

"We've played a short rotation and understandably so, because we're trying to win games," Walsh said. "We started off 3-8 and went to a short rotation and it worked."

Another conspiracy theory bites the dust.

alan hahn got the perfect quote, perfect. then he goes and ruins it, what is he tryn to be a good journalist that bastid!

That is still a strong statement from Walsh. I think he feels the guys he brought in can play and that some should be playing. He takes a hands off approach and has been loyal and protected D'Antoni without question. At some point he might get a bit frustrated that big acquisitions like lottery picks and the guy he thought might be one of the best players in the 08 draft can't get minutes.

i agree, it has to be frustrating for him as a GM to see some of the players he goes out & gets wasting away on the bench not even seeing playing time, especially when he's trying to evaluate these guys to determine what kinds of moves need to be made in the future to fill needs on this team... i think there is an obvious disparity in certain cases between him & MDA as to the types of players that each prefers... as a GM when he glances at the boxscores for teams that now have some of the players he acquired to run in this system & sees guys like Darko Milicic putting up 23/16/6, 22/8/5 & 25/11/4 statlines on some nights, or Jordan Hill putting up 14/6/2, 14/10, 12/7, 9/9/4 type stats off the bench, it has to leave him scratching his head why these guys were never able to see regular minutes playing when we had them here, especially during a season where we really had nothing else to really play for other than to evaluate talent... if AR never gets a run in NY & Donnie is forced to trade him to another team & he starts putting up #'s there, i don't see any way it wouldn't bother him.

TMS wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

cheers wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

martin wrote:

But Walsh quickly ruined that by continuing his thought, supporting Mike D'Antoni's decision to stick to a limited rotation during the last four weeks.

"We've played a short rotation and understandably so, because we're trying to win games," Walsh said. "We started off 3-8 and went to a short rotation and it worked."

Another conspiracy theory bites the dust.

alan hahn got the perfect quote, perfect. then he goes and ruins it, what is he tryn to be a good journalist that bastid!

That is still a strong statement from Walsh. I think he feels the guys he brought in can play and that some should be playing. He takes a hands off approach and has been loyal and protected D'Antoni without question. At some point he might get a bit frustrated that big acquisitions like lottery picks and the guy he thought might be one of the best players in the 08 draft can't get minutes.

i agree, it has to be frustrating for him as a GM to see some of the players he goes out & gets wasting away on the bench not even seeing playing time, especially when he's trying to evaluate these guys to determine what kinds of moves need to be made in the future to fill needs on this team... i think there is an obvious disparity in certain cases between him & MDA as to the types of players that each prefers... as a GM when he glances at the boxscores for teams that now have some of the players he acquired to run in this system & sees guys like Darko Milicic putting up 23/16/6, 22/8/5 & 25/11/4 statlines on some nights, or Jordan Hill putting up 14/6/2, 14/10, 12/7, 9/9/4 type stats off the bench, it has to leave him scratching his head why these guys were never able to see regular minutes playing when we had them here, especially during a season where we really had nothing else to really play for other than to evaluate talent... if AR never gets a run in NY & Donnie is forced to trade him to another team & he starts putting up #'s there, i don't see any way it wouldn't bother him.

coach mike is like a ferrari
and donnie is ready to plant
a pole in his face

nixluva wrote:

Papabear wrote:

nixluva wrote:I think that when it comes to why Mike isn't playing certain guys, it's something that they are talking more about this year as opposed to in the past. I think they've long since worked out any kinks in their own communication. The was Donnie built the roster looks like he had Mike's need in mind the entire way. He knows that the team was young and Mike commented on that as being an issue this year that could mitigate how much success the team has. All we're seeing is the realization of the Youth Mike was concerned about. No big mystery to solve. Guys just aren't ready.

Papabear Says

Nixluve! you sure are a Mike D luva. He stinks up the place and his ego is so big that he would rather loose a game than to play AR. If he put the kid in now AR would be so confused because he would be afraid that he would make a mistake.

Come on Papa! I'm using reason when it comes to this. Guys that are in Mike's position are emotional like little girls when it comes to this stuff. That man is about as professional as you're gonna get when it comes to trying to get wins. AR like every other player is being groomed to excel playing high level BB. When you watch the Knicks at their best the BB is beautiful to watch. That's not some accident. They drill this stuff and work on it until it's 2nd nature. The process is ongoing so you can expect the players to continue improving.

Now Timo and AR are green and this is gonna take them some time to figure out, but once they do they should be able to really help us. I think you underestimate how this system works and the speed at which they have to execute. I've compared it to a rookie QB trying to go up against the top NFL defenses. It's all going too fast for them to process and they wind up making mistakes. They freeze and lock in on a receiver and wind up being picked off. They think they see a blitz and wind up taking a delay of game penalty. The point is that these young guys can't just wing it and be successful. In some systems you can do that, cuz it's a very basic offense, but not here. That's like young guards trying to master the Triangle offense in LA. It's just not easy to master and if you can't then you're gonna mess up the plays for the rest of the team.

after reading this i can only conclude that nixluva is now on board! standing with stat and donnie to hold mike accountable.

welcome aboard brudah! the heat on mike grows. a recent youtube even shows donnie's wife dazed by mike's short rotation.

i like toney i like turiaf, but to wake mda the fug up they may need to be made examples of.. donnie assert your authoritah.

TMS wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

cheers wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

martin wrote:

But Walsh quickly ruined that by continuing his thought, supporting Mike D'Antoni's decision to stick to a limited rotation during the last four weeks.

"We've played a short rotation and understandably so, because we're trying to win games," Walsh said. "We started off 3-8 and went to a short rotation and it worked."

Another conspiracy theory bites the dust.

alan hahn got the perfect quote, perfect. then he goes and ruins it, what is he tryn to be a good journalist that bastid!

That is still a strong statement from Walsh. I think he feels the guys he brought in can play and that some should be playing. He takes a hands off approach and has been loyal and protected D'Antoni without question. At some point he might get a bit frustrated that big acquisitions like lottery picks and the guy he thought might be one of the best players in the 08 draft can't get minutes.

i agree, it has to be frustrating for him as a GM to see some of the players he goes out & gets wasting away on the bench not even seeing playing time, especially when he's trying to evaluate these guys to determine what kinds of moves need to be made in the future to fill needs on this team... i think there is an obvious disparity in certain cases between him & MDA as to the types of players that each prefers... as a GM when he glances at the boxscores for teams that now have some of the players he acquired to run in this system & sees guys like Darko Milicic putting up 23/16/6, 22/8/5 & 25/11/4 statlines on some nights, or Jordan Hill putting up 14/6/2, 14/10, 12/7, 9/9/4 type stats off the bench, it has to leave him scratching his head why these guys were never able to see regular minutes playing when we had them here, especially during a season where we really had nothing else to really play for other than to evaluate talent... if AR never gets a run in NY & Donnie is forced to trade him to another team & he starts putting up #'s there, i don't see any way it wouldn't bother him.

Agreed. Donnie's looking at Milicic/Hill contributing in Minny/Houston and wants to see what he actually has in AR before he pawns him off for scraps.

Bippity10 wrote:Fan perspective-Play the young guys, accept their mistakes, play them through the mistakes, accept that the bench will blow leads, win the games or else be fired

GM perspective-Play the guys I went out to acquire for you so I can evaluate

Coach perspective-Holy crap, I just saw Toney, Turiaf and Williams blow another lead, I bring in AR for two minutes and he drives through a double team and dribbles off his league, the fans are calling for my head after I just won 13-14 games, f' it. "Amare, Ray back on the court"

This pretty much sums it up.....Its an iteresting dynamic between Coach-GM-Fan with the coach being on the bottom of the totem pole because they are the first ones to take the fall. Play the bench and lose games; dont play the bench and upset the GM for not giving him a chance to see his toys and at the same time upset the fans because the fans seem to be more enamored with Potential than actual talent in most cases.

Sangfroid wrote:

cheers wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

cheers wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

martin wrote:

But Walsh quickly ruined that by continuing his thought, supporting Mike D'Antoni's decision to stick to a limited rotation during the last four weeks.

"We've played a short rotation and understandably so, because we're trying to win games," Walsh said. "We started off 3-8 and went to a short rotation and it worked."

Another conspiracy theory bites the dust.

alan hahn got the perfect quote, perfect. then he goes and ruins it, what is he tryn to be a good journalist that bastid!

That is still a strong statement from Walsh. I think he feels the guys he brought in can play and that some should be playing. He takes a hands off approach and has been loyal and protected D'Antoni without question. At some point he might get a bit frustrated that big acquisitions like lottery picks and the guy he thought might be one of the best players in the 08 draft can't get minutes.

have ewing number on speed dial donnie!

To do what

to invite him to sit with him to watch the thunder game.donnie will be in attendance to evaluate the mda shenanigans that has been going on behind his back. he can ask ewing questions like, pat would you play the players i break my hip to get you?

Bippity10 wrote:I don't think Walsh is like Isiah where he lords over the coach from the stairs, ready to throw the hammer down. It appears that Mike and Walsh ahve a good relationship and speak regularly about what needs to be done with the team, without Walsh medalling. I think you guys need to get out of the past.

They are both aware that the starters need help. The opportunity is there for whoever wants to take it, but I don't think it will be handed to anyoen

with donnie in attendance i dont expect many dnp for the thunder game.

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

cheers wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

martin wrote:

But Walsh quickly ruined that by continuing his thought, supporting Mike D'Antoni's decision to stick to a limited rotation during the last four weeks.

"We've played a short rotation and understandably so, because we're trying to win games," Walsh said. "We started off 3-8 and went to a short rotation and it worked."

Another conspiracy theory bites the dust.

alan hahn got the perfect quote, perfect. then he goes and ruins it, what is he tryn to be a good journalist that bastid!

That is still a strong statement from Walsh. I think he feels the guys he brought in can play and that some should be playing. He takes a hands off approach and has been loyal and protected D'Antoni without question. At some point he might get a bit frustrated that big acquisitions like lottery picks and the guy he thought might be one of the best players in the 08 draft can't get minutes.

i agree, it has to be frustrating for him as a GM to see some of the players he goes out & gets wasting away on the bench not even seeing playing time, especially when he's trying to evaluate these guys to determine what kinds of moves need to be made in the future to fill needs on this team... i think there is an obvious disparity in certain cases between him & MDA as to the types of players that each prefers... as a GM when he glances at the boxscores for teams that now have some of the players he acquired to run in this system & sees guys like Darko Milicic putting up 23/16/6, 22/8/5 & 25/11/4 statlines on some nights, or Jordan Hill putting up 14/6/2, 14/10, 12/7, 9/9/4 type stats off the bench, it has to leave him scratching his head why these guys were never able to see regular minutes playing when we had them here, especially during a season where we really had nothing else to really play for other than to evaluate talent... if AR never gets a run in NY & Donnie is forced to trade him to another team & he starts putting up #'s there, i don't see any way it wouldn't bother him.

I don't get this, when does cherry picking stat lines constitute an argument?

If I picked out Milicic's 3 worst games and Hill's 4 worst as well to show MDA SHOULDN'T have played those guys, does that hold as much argumentative weight? If not, what's the difference?

Since Darko arrived in Twolve land, they are a collective 8-47. Not all his fault but seems to me he isn't having a positive impact.

only MDA knows the reason for why he didn't play those guys... i'm not debating that on this thread... the argument is that as a GM who brought those guys in, it might leave you scratching your head when you see them put up statlines like that on other teams when they couldn't see the light of day off the bench on yours... DW used a #8 lottery pick on Jordan Hill because he obviously saw big potential in him... then MDA hardly ever plays him & he ends up becoming a filler in a cap dump & goes on to become a viable rotation player on another squad... do u really think this doesn't at least leave DW wondering if things could have worked out for him here if given the opportunity? i do.

DW traded an allstar PF for Anthony Randolph because he obviously sees big potential in him... now he can't see the light of day off MDA's bench... if Walsh ends up trading AR away because he can't find a role here & he then goes on to put up some #'s off the bench on other teams, u don't think that would leave him wondering what might have been if they had at least gotten playing time here? we are talking about a kid that put up 12/7/2 last year in only 23 mpg... those are pretty good #'s for any bench player i don't care what team you're playing on... when you're using up your franchise's assets to bring players in & they get no run, it has to bother you as a GM, or at least leave you with a ton of questions in your mind as to why they can't see playing time.

Donnie also purchased a 1st round pick to draft Toney Douglas & he could hardly get off the bench until late in the season when he started to travel with the team to evaluate players & see for himself what was going on that was causing all these DNP-CD's... that's when MDA put Jordan & Toney back into the rotation, probably more to appease the GM & not out of any desire to do so... to me, this shows a disparity between their philosophies in terms of the player acquisitions being made at certain times... it may speak to a lack of communication between the 2 or maybe not, but i do think that has to be a reason for some concern... these guys need to get on the same page & stop wasting the franchise's assets to bring in players that don't get any playing time... Toney Douglas to his credit has been able to stick it out & remain a part of MDA's rotation, but he could just as easily have been included as filler in that Fishlips trade last year & become a contributor for their team as well... it's not like his value was all that high after having spent most of the season collecting DNP's.

Darko is averaging 9.3 and 5.6; Hill is at 6.8 and 4.3

Darko is averaging that in 25 mpg while also contributing 2.5 blocks & 2 assists a night... Hill is putting up his statline in 17.7 mpg & shooting over 50% on the season... meanwhile we're talking about the concern that Amare will burn out & eventually break down because of MDA's use of a short rotation, & currently our 2 frontcourt bench players are:

Ronny Turiaf averaging 4.1 and 2.9 w/1.3 blk in 19 mpg with 7 missed games already due to injury... in the time he has played, he has done a solid job, but even he is performing at his career lows in all 3 categories in relation to minutes played

Timofey Mozgov averaging 2.4 and 2.1 w/0.7 blk in 10.8 mpg while shooting an alarming 37% on the season

right now Timo isn't even close to producing on Darko's level in any aspect of the game, & Jordan Hill is outperforming Ronny statswise while playing the same role, but Ronny brings superior defense & intangibles so this is a pretty fair trade off... still, u have to wonder if DW still feels that Jordan Hill can be much more considering he did take him very high in the draft, whereas Turiaf has already topped out. (btw, i'm not lamenting the fact that we lost Jordan Hill here, just raising potential thoughts that might cross a DW's head when he sees his former players producing on other teams)... i also don't think it's a stretch to think DW might still view Darko as a guy who could have helped this team in a role off the bench considering the job he's doing in Minnesota... personally i think either one of those guys would have been infinitely better than anything we've gotten out of Timo this year.

TMS wrote:

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

cheers wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

martin wrote:

But Walsh quickly ruined that by continuing his thought, supporting Mike D'Antoni's decision to stick to a limited rotation during the last four weeks.

"We've played a short rotation and understandably so, because we're trying to win games," Walsh said. "We started off 3-8 and went to a short rotation and it worked."

Another conspiracy theory bites the dust.

alan hahn got the perfect quote, perfect. then he goes and ruins it, what is he tryn to be a good journalist that bastid!

That is still a strong statement from Walsh. I think he feels the guys he brought in can play and that some should be playing. He takes a hands off approach and has been loyal and protected D'Antoni without question. At some point he might get a bit frustrated that big acquisitions like lottery picks and the guy he thought might be one of the best players in the 08 draft can't get minutes.

i agree, it has to be frustrating for him as a GM to see some of the players he goes out & gets wasting away on the bench not even seeing playing time, especially when he's trying to evaluate these guys to determine what kinds of moves need to be made in the future to fill needs on this team... i think there is an obvious disparity in certain cases between him & MDA as to the types of players that each prefers... as a GM when he glances at the boxscores for teams that now have some of the players he acquired to run in this system & sees guys like Darko Milicic putting up 23/16/6, 22/8/5 & 25/11/4 statlines on some nights, or Jordan Hill putting up 14/6/2, 14/10, 12/7, 9/9/4 type stats off the bench, it has to leave him scratching his head why these guys were never able to see regular minutes playing when we had them here, especially during a season where we really had nothing else to really play for other than to evaluate talent... if AR never gets a run in NY & Donnie is forced to trade him to another team & he starts putting up #'s there, i don't see any way it wouldn't bother him.

I don't get this, when does cherry picking stat lines constitute an argument?

If I picked out Milicic's 3 worst games and Hill's 4 worst as well to show MDA SHOULDN'T have played those guys, does that hold as much argumentative weight? If not, what's the difference?

Since Darko arrived in Twolve land, they are a collective 8-47. Not all his fault but seems to me he isn't having a positive impact.

only MDA knows the reason for why he didn't play those guys... i'm not debating that on this thread... the argument is that as a GM who brought those guys in, it might leave you scratching your head when you see them put up statlines like that on other teams when they couldn't see the light of day off the bench on yours... DW used a #8 lottery pick on Jordan Hill because he obviously saw big potential in him... then MDA hardly ever plays him & he ends up becoming a filler in a cap dump & goes on to become a viable rotation player on another squad... do u really think this doesn't at least leave DW wondering if things could have worked out for him here if given the opportunity? i do.

DW traded an allstar PF for Anthony Randolph because he obviously sees big potential in him... now he can't see the light of day off MDA's bench... if Walsh ends up trading AR away because he can't find a role here & he then goes on to put up some #'s off the bench on other teams, u don't think that would leave him wondering what might have been if they had at least gotten playing time here? we are talking about a kid that put up 12/7/2 last year in only 23 mpg... those are pretty good #'s for any bench player i don't care what team you're playing on... when you're using up your franchise's assets to bring players in & they get no run, it has to bother you as a GM, or at least leave you with a ton of questions in your mind as to why they can't see playing time.

Donnie also purchased a 1st round pick to draft Toney Douglas & he could hardly get off the bench until late in the season when he started to travel with the team to evaluate players & see for himself what was going on that was causing all these DNP-CD's... that's when MDA put Jordan & Toney back into the rotation, probably more to appease the GM & not out of any desire to do so... to me, this shows a disparity between their philosophies in terms of the player acquisitions being made at certain times... it may speak to a lack of communication between the 2 or maybe not, but i do think that has to be a reason for some concern... these guys need to get on the same page & stop wasting the franchise's assets to bring in players that don't get any playing time... Toney Douglas to his credit has been able to stick it out & remain a part of MDA's rotation, but he could just as easily have been included as filler in that Fishlips trade last year & become a contributor for their team as well... it's not like his value was all that high after having spent most of the season collecting DNP's.

Darko is averaging 9.3 and 5.6; Hill is at 6.8 and 4.3

Darko is averaging that in 25 mpg while also contributing 2.5 blocks & 2 assists a night... Hill is putting up his statline in 17.7 mpg & shooting over 50% on the season... meanwhile we're talking about the concern that Amare will burn out & eventually break down because of MDA's use of a short rotation, & currently our 2 frontcourt bench players are:

Ronny Turiaf averaging 4.1 and 2.9 w/1.3 blk in 19 mpg with 7 missed games already due to injury... in the time he has played, he has done a solid job, but even he is performing at his career lows in all 3 categories in relation to minutes played

Timofey Mozgov averaging 2.4 and 2.1 w/0.7 blk in 10.8 mpg while shooting an alarming 37% on the season

right now Timo isn't even close to producing on Darko's level in any aspect of the game, & Jordan Hill is outperforming Ronny statswise while playing the same role, but Ronny brings superior defense & intangibles so this is a pretty fair trade off... still, u have to wonder if DW still feels that Jordan Hill can be much more considering he did take him very high in the draft, whereas Turiaf has already topped out. (btw, i'm not lamenting the fact that we lost Jordan Hill here, just raising potential thoughts that might cross a DW's head when he sees his former players producing on other teams)... i also don't think it's a stretch to think DW might still view Darko as a guy who could have helped this team in a role off the bench considering the job he's doing in Minnesota... personally i think either one of those guys would have been infinitely better than anything we've gotten out of Timo this year.

I agree with everything you said. Unfortunately DArko's attitude was very poor and had to go. I have no doubt if he worked hard while he was here, he would still be here and he would probably be playing.