AnubisADL wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:We cant simply add a backup PG and defensive center and play like we are now.

Defensive Center means Fields, Gallo, or Chandler get sent to the bench.

We are successful right now because we are playing small ball and Amare's superb play is forcing teams to go small with us.

A backup PG and defensive center means deeper bench means Amare and Felton will be fresher in the end of games.

D'Antoni has to play Amare major minutes because he is essentially carrying the offense. He HAS to play for us to win.

you are both right. we do need an upgrade at point and a big man to take some of the load off of amare and rayray. i dont think felton sat one second in the 2nd half last night? and yes, the team is WAY different w amare on the bench. you need someone to help ease the load for both of them - they are going to be here for many years, cant just look at tomorrow w them. those 2 are the ones that are taking this team to the promiseland. cant have them playing 40-45 minutes a night every night. they will run out of gas quick.

BRIGGS wrote:

Uptown wrote:Briggs, you continue to combine the numbers of Gallo and Chandler and claim that Melo cant equal the two of them. By this same idiotic logic, if you combine Harrington and Lee's numbers from last year that avaraged 38 pts and 17 rbs. Those averages trump Stoudemire's numbers so accoding to your logic, we should have kept David and Al over Amare.

Cpome on Briggs, your better than that. Obviuosly Amares impact is deeper than that numbers as wold Melos impact be on this club. I agree, I dont wnat to give up the farm, but yes, if want to be one of the top 2-3 teams in the east and a championship contender, Melo is very necessary.

No my logic is spot on--we need a bench rehab. If we trade Fields Gallo and Chandler for Carmelo Anhony we will be a much worse team. While Melo can replace one(although we dont know what will happen with chemistry) he cant replace even 2 and if its 3 we wont win 40 games. And we are alse caped out--no I like chandler and Gallo better. We just need a legit 6th man and another big who can score when amare takes a much needed rest of is able to play big big for some minutes.

a 6th man is not pushing us past the Celts, Heat, Magic, Spurs or Lakers. I like this team to, but when you get an MVP candidate on your roster, you have to go for the gold. A 6th man is not going for the gold. Once you have your stars in place, then you can go over the cap as we have probven in the past.

fishmike wrote:size and depth can win also. So can defense and a team concept. Who were the stars on the Piston's who beat the Lakers in 5 games in the finals in the middle of Shaq/Kobe's prime?

Is Carmello shutting down Paul Pierce or boxing out KG?We didnt lose the game because we needed a great scorer. In fact we 116 and shot 53% against the best defensive team in the NBA.

Briggs is a mental case, but there doesnt seem to be a shred of evidence that Melo is elevating this team with what he brings.

The Melo will make us better because he's a star and stars win is just as faulty logic

Actually, if you watched the playoffs last year, Anthony can play pretty good defense when he puts his mind to it. He, like many players that carry their team, coasts on defense through the season, but he can guard SFs when he has too. The downside I see to Anthony is that he is not a great 3pt shooter and he will get alot of 3s in this offense. Sometimes guys improve their 3 point shot when they know it is going to become a bigger part of their game and Anthony is a great mid-range shooter, so I would have to believe that he can get better. He is an excellent rebounder and a beast to guard. I mean, Anthony can score anytime he wants to against anyone. You put Melo and Amare together with Felton, and there is no team in the league that is going to stop our offense. If we can get Melo while keeping Fields, I say go for it, but we have to keep either Fields, Chandler, or Gallo, we cannot give up all three for Anthony. Ideally, I would love for us to wait it out and hope he goes into FA and we can sign him for little of nothing. If Anthony really wants to win a championship here, that is what he will do.

Uptown wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Uptown wrote:Briggs, you continue to combine the numbers of Gallo and Chandler and claim that Melo cant equal the two of them. By this same idiotic logic, if you combine Harrington and Lee's numbers from last year that avaraged 38 pts and 17 rbs. Those averages trump Stoudemire's numbers so accoding to your logic, we should have kept David and Al over Amare.

Cpome on Briggs, your better than that. Obviuosly Amares impact is deeper than that numbers as wold Melos impact be on this club. I agree, I dont wnat to give up the farm, but yes, if want to be one of the top 2-3 teams in the east and a championship contender, Melo is very necessary.

No my logic is spot on--we need a bench rehab. If we trade Fields Gallo and Chandler for Carmelo Anhony we will be a much worse team. While Melo can replace one(although we dont know what will happen with chemistry) he cant replace even 2 and if its 3 we wont win 40 games. And we are alse caped out--no I like chandler and Gallo better. We just need a legit 6th man and another big who can score when amare takes a much needed rest of is able to play big big for some minutes.

a 6th man is not pushing us past the Celts, Heat, Magic, Spurs or Lakers. I like this team to, but when you get an MVP candidate on your roster, you have to go for the gold. A 6th man is not going for the gold. Once you have your stars in place, then you can go over the cap as we have probven in the past.

What are you talking about? ANYTHING that we add to what we already have is gonna push us over the top. You add a Mayo and a solid Big than can actually defend and score a bit and this team is on an Elite level!!! Everyone will see some cut in minutes, but it will be for the good of the team. I fail to understand how you think it won't have a net positive effect to add some players to the rotation that have more ability than Turiaf or any of the other ineffective bench players we have.

nixluva wrote:

Uptown wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Uptown wrote:Briggs, you continue to combine the numbers of Gallo and Chandler and claim that Melo cant equal the two of them. By this same idiotic logic, if you combine Harrington and Lee's numbers from last year that avaraged 38 pts and 17 rbs. Those averages trump Stoudemire's numbers so accoding to your logic, we should have kept David and Al over Amare.

Cpome on Briggs, your better than that. Obviuosly Amares impact is deeper than that numbers as wold Melos impact be on this club. I agree, I dont wnat to give up the farm, but yes, if want to be one of the top 2-3 teams in the east and a championship contender, Melo is very necessary.

No my logic is spot on--we need a bench rehab. If we trade Fields Gallo and Chandler for Carmelo Anhony we will be a much worse team. While Melo can replace one(although we dont know what will happen with chemistry) he cant replace even 2 and if its 3 we wont win 40 games. And we are alse caped out--no I like chandler and Gallo better. We just need a legit 6th man and another big who can score when amare takes a much needed rest of is able to play big big for some minutes.

a 6th man is not pushing us past the Celts, Heat, Magic, Spurs or Lakers. I like this team to, but when you get an MVP candidate on your roster, you have to go for the gold. A 6th man is not going for the gold. Once you have your stars in place, then you can go over the cap as we have probven in the past.

What are you talking about? ANYTHING that we add to what we already have is gonna push us over the top. You add a Mayo and a solid Big than can actually defend and score a bit and this team is on an Elite level!!! Everyone will see some cut in minutes, but it will be for the good of the team. I fail to understand how you think it won't have a net positive effect to add some players to the rotation that have more ability than Turiaf or any of the other ineffective bench players we have.

We just pushed a pretty quality Celtics team that needed 21-21 from the line and a monster 4th quarter to beat us at the buzzer. yes their big men were out.

But why is it crazy to believe that a real backup PG (subtracting TD from having to do anything substantial) and a quality big to help Amare guard the Garnetts, Howards of the league? I don't get it.

We talkin bout LOGIC in this thread right? Why is this train of though illogical.

Knicks are beating teams like Denver (with a quality star like Melo) and .whatever seconds away from beating a team that has won it all and pushed the Lakers to 7 games.

Adding someone to help us:

- not lose leads when TD take stupid shots (like taking a 3 with time on the clock when Amare had just checked back into the game)

- and a big so Amare can do what he do best (score and block from the weakside) and rest on nights when other guys get hot.

I'm not saying it's a guarantee we become a contender. There's no guarantee we become one with Melo (and minus whatever it takes to get him).

It's not crazy or illogical to think Melo could push us over the top. A Melo/Amare/Felton squad will also have holes to fill.

It's not crazy or illogical to think that Plan B could do the same. As currently constructed, this team is not perfect. It has holes. There are ways to fill those holes that could make us much better.

If we were kicking ass with Melo but not able to make it past Orlando or Miami or Boston and someone said

"Hey if we just add X to this Melo/Amare/Felton core, we can get over the top"

It would be crazy to say "Adding role players will not get you over the top"

right?

BRIGGS wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:We cant simply add a backup PG and defensive center and play like we are now.

Defensive Center means Fields, Gallo, or Chandler get sent to the bench.

We are successful right now because we are playing small ball and Amare's superb play is forcing teams to go small with us.

Amare 6-10
Gallo 6-10
chandler 6-8
Fields6-7

thats not small

yes we need another big who can score and 6th man type who might also be able to take on some ball handling responsibilities. but this is not a small team we just dont play 2 big--we cant

There is a difference between being 6' 10" and playing like you are 6' 10". The only guy who plays like he is 6' 10 is Amare.

AnubisADL wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:We cant simply add a backup PG and defensive center and play like we are now.

Defensive Center means Fields, Gallo, or Chandler get sent to the bench.

We are successful right now because we are playing small ball and Amare's superb play is forcing teams to go small with us.

Amare 6-10
Gallo 6-10
chandler 6-8
Fields6-7

thats not small

yes we need another big who can score and 6th man type who might also be able to take on some ball handling responsibilities. but this is not a small team we just dont play 2 big--we cant

There is a difference between being 6' 10" and playing like you are 6' 10". The only guy who plays like he is 6' 10 is Amare.

Fields and Chandler pull down 10 rebounds many times this year--thats playing big.

AnubisADL wrote:

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:- Amare has been MVP status during this win streak. Expecting him to maintain this pace for a complete season is unrealistic. If he does manage close to that pace it will come back to haunt him in the playoffs.

True

- D'Antoni has to play Amare major minutes because he is essentially carrying the offense. He HAS to play for us to win.

Also true.

That leaves a bit of a problem doesn't it?

When people say let's get a quality big who can defend/rebound why is it assumed that that player will singlehandedly kill our offense? If you put Amare on the floor with Felton and 2 shooters is it unrealistic to expect they can still score?

The majority of people in the rotation can get buckets. There are very few people who can hit the boards hard and help defend. You don't have to have everything so black and white where u get a defensive big and play him 40 minutes at the expense of a scorer getting minutes.

Boston was killing us in the paint yesterday and that was WITHOUT Shaq, Jermaine O Neal and Perkins.

Basketball is a game of runs. If there's a stretch where we're getting killed inside and the other team is ona run, put someone in to stop that run or make them find a diff. way to score. If the offense is looking stagnant, put in a scorer. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

The imaginary big you are talking about that can defend and rebound is Andrew Bogut and we arent getting anyone near his level anytime soon.

The only big man on the entire planet who could help this team is Andrew Bogut....

Maybe we could trade Melo for him?

AnubisADL wrote:

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:- Amare has been MVP status during this win streak. Expecting him to maintain this pace for a complete season is unrealistic. If he does manage close to that pace it will come back to haunt him in the playoffs.

True

- D'Antoni has to play Amare major minutes because he is essentially carrying the offense. He HAS to play for us to win.

Also true.

That leaves a bit of a problem doesn't it?

When people say let's get a quality big who can defend/rebound why is it assumed that that player will singlehandedly kill our offense? If you put Amare on the floor with Felton and 2 shooters is it unrealistic to expect they can still score?

The majority of people in the rotation can get buckets. There are very few people who can hit the boards hard and help defend. You don't have to have everything so black and white where u get a defensive big and play him 40 minutes at the expense of a scorer getting minutes.

Boston was killing us in the paint yesterday and that was WITHOUT Shaq, Jermaine O Neal and Perkins.

Basketball is a game of runs. If there's a stretch where we're getting killed inside and the other team is ona run, put someone in to stop that run or make them find a diff. way to score. If the offense is looking stagnant, put in a scorer. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

The imaginary big you are talking about that can defend and rebound is Andrew Bogut and we arent getting anyone near his level anytime soon.

Nene.

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:- Amare has been MVP status during this win streak. Expecting him to maintain this pace for a complete season is unrealistic. If he does manage close to that pace it will come back to haunt him in the playoffs.

True

- D'Antoni has to play Amare major minutes because he is essentially carrying the offense. He HAS to play for us to win.

Also true.

That leaves a bit of a problem doesn't it?

When people say let's get a quality big who can defend/rebound why is it assumed that that player will singlehandedly kill our offense? If you put Amare on the floor with Felton and 2 shooters is it unrealistic to expect they can still score?

The majority of people in the rotation can get buckets. There are very few people who can hit the boards hard and help defend. You don't have to have everything so black and white where u get a defensive big and play him 40 minutes at the expense of a scorer getting minutes.

Boston was killing us in the paint yesterday and that was WITHOUT Shaq, Jermaine O Neal and Perkins.

Basketball is a game of runs. If there's a stretch where we're getting killed inside and the other team is ona run, put someone in to stop that run or make them find a diff. way to score. If the offense is looking stagnant, put in a scorer. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

The imaginary big you are talking about that can defend and rebound is Andrew Bogut and we arent getting anyone near his level anytime soon.

Nene.

I REALLY like Nene but how do we get him? We dont have the cap space to sign him outright whether we get Carmelo now or later.

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:The only big man on the entire planet who could help this team is Andrew Bogut....