BlueSeats wrote:

martin wrote:
I have a sneaking suspicion that there is a left-field deal out there that none of us are considering but which Donnie is setting up, ala the DLee deal.

Probably. What I don't think we'll see is one of these cupboard cleaning deals like some fans are proposing. If we were willing to give up Fields, AZ, Chandler, Gallo, & Curry Denver would be all over it. Why? Because Fields is already the rookie contract they're looking for, who happens to be an unbelievable bargain on a 2nd round contract, and Chandler or Gallo can easily be traded for a first, by them or us.

The thing is, the Knicks plan was always to make room for 2 max contracts and I think Dolan wants to have that star studded marketing cache that Boston/Miami/LA have.

What I don't get is why fans are begging for Chandler/Gallo to develop a drop step, pull up, midrange game, yet getting the guy with the patent on that move scares the hell out of them.

Defense and cost.

knicks1248 wrote:

TMS wrote:

damn, this guy sucks... who needs him

I could pull out some AR youtube clips...look.. these clips do not tell the whole story and you know it..

melo's cons are, poor shot pct, suspect d, and doesn't pass the ball much..If you can live with a player earning that kinda of salary, and he makes your #2 in the league offense much better, then hey,,knock youself out

so let me get this straight... picking out some sequences where Melo is seen to play horrible defense to make a case as to why we don't need him on this team is OK, but picking out some highlight footage showing what Melo can bring to a basketball team isn't... gotcha... it's always good to consider all sides to an argument, just as long as they agree with your argument i guess.

i don't think anyone here is under some illusion that Melo is a good defensive player... the reason why people want him on this team is because of the fact he's probably 1 of the top 2 or 3 scorers in the NBA... now if u don't care to have a player like that on your team & would rather stick with what we have, that's your choice... if it makes u feel better to delude yourself into thinking that DW agrees with your notion that we don't need Melo here, knock yourself out... my bet is that Donnie Walsh wants Melo in NY & do does James Dolan.

but hey, i guess you wouldn't want Kevin Durant on the Knicks either, considering his defense & FG% this year are also suspect & doesn't pass the ball that much.

BlueSeats wrote:

martin wrote:
I have a sneaking suspicion that there is a left-field deal out there that none of us are considering but which Donnie is setting up, ala the DLee deal.

Probably. What I don't think we'll see is one of these cupboard cleaning deals like some fans are proposing. If we were willing to give up Fields, AZ, Chandler, Gallo, & Curry Denver would be all over it. Why? Because Fields is already the rookie contract they're looking for, who happens to be an unbelievable bargain on a 2nd round contract, and Chandler or Gallo can easily be traded for a first, by them or us.

The thing is, the Knicks plan was always to make room for 2 max contracts and I think Dolan wants to have that star studded marketing cache that Boston/Miami/LA have.

What I don't get is why fans are begging for Chandler/Gallo to develop a drop step, pull up, midrange game, yet getting the guy with the patent on that move scares the hell out of them.

that is a damn good question...

BlueSeats wrote:

martin wrote:

BlueSeats wrote:

martin wrote:
I have a sneaking suspicion that there is a left-field deal out there that none of us are considering but which Donnie is setting up, ala the DLee deal.

Probably. What I don't think we'll see is one of these cupboard cleaning deals like some fans are proposing. If we were willing to give up Fields, AZ, Chandler, Gallo, & Curry Denver would be all over it. Why? Because Fields is already the rookie contract they're looking for, who happens to be an unbelievable bargain on a 2nd round contract, and Chandler or Gallo can easily be traded for a first, by them or us.

The thing is, the Knicks plan was always to make room for 2 max contracts and I think Dolan wants to have that star studded marketing cache that Boston/Miami/LA have.

What I don't get is why fans are begging for Chandler/Gallo to develop a drop step, pull up, midrange game, yet getting the guy with the patent on that move scares the hell out of them.

Defense and cost.

Defense is an issue, no doubt. I think he's dogging it in Denver and would do better in NY. But I agree, ideally you want someone who doesn't take nights off under any circumstances.

The cost thing I'm not sure I get though. How many years do we want to be "flexible," vs contending?

I don't see someone like Iggy putting us over any humps.

The dream for this year was two max players. If it were Amare and Lebron who'd have complained of cost? When that fell through the next best deal, while a longshot, was a tantalizing trio of Amare, Melo and CP3. With the way Felton is playing, relative to CP's knee, I feel like we're damned close to that NOW if we get Melo. It's reality. Then you've got your 'big three' and plug what holes remain with minor trades and the MLE.

But if you don't strike now, and you re-sign Chandler, take on Iggy, etc, you'll have lost your expiring contracts and still be that elusive "one player away". Do you really want Iggy as your second best player?

So do you bust your wallet on chopped liver -- never again having enough to land the big one? Or land the big one while you've got the dough, and then go for the bit players?

I don't know it just seems like we're the '94 Knicks thinking we don't need Reggie Miller because we have Starks and he plays better D.

Your response seems to be channeling Dolan the owner rather than Donnie the GM. No doubt the goal last summer was 2 max's, but that was just a step and building block on route to a championship, and we can all agree that that is the end all be all. Does the same plan hold or is there room for maneuvering? There is not doubt in my mind that Dolan is asking Donnie "when does the next Max player get to MSG?", but is Donnie's reply: 1) "Melo's coming soon" or 2) "You know what, I see something a bit different that will get us to the ring"?

Here is what I hope is happening: Donnie is paying close attention to both Gallo and Chandler and benchmarking their progress like a maniac. Both are young guys, this is the first summer Chandler has had to practice, same with Gallo. Both are cheap. Both have plenty of upside still (how much?).

He is also paying VERY close attention to AR and Moz. Donnie KNOWS you need defense and bigs to win. Boston will be around for 2 years, Lakers for 3, and Miami's biggest weakness is down the middle. Orlando has giants all over the place. Adding Melo to Amare does not put you in the elite conversion with those teams during playoffs if you have zero chance at defense and big guys. ZERO. You can certainly beat them with SSOL during regular season but forget about a 7 game series.

(BTW, for the rest of you: Knicks add Melo and can only realistically add with the MLE - which is probably going to be halved after the CBA gets renewed - what good big men have been gotten for the MLE so far that have been added to a deep playoff team?)

I think the Knicks realistically have there biggest shot this summer to lock-in their core for a run, or up until this summer; forget about next summer.

BlueSeats wrote:Defense is an issue, no doubt. I think he's dogging it in Denver and would do better in NY.

BTW, the above scared me. The is the ONE performance by Melo at the Garden this year. Yes, he was coming off of knee trouble. But who stepped up in this game: Amare, Chandler and (in part) Gallo for the Knicks. Nene was huge. Billups SUCKED. Melo was disappointing IMHO. He couldn't show New York both offense and defense for just one game? ONE GAME!

Jordan comes to NY and drops double nickels.

BlueSeats wrote:I don't know it just seems like we're the '94 Knicks thinking we don't need Reggie Miller because we have Starks and he plays better D.

BTW I dont think this analogy works as a whole IMHO.

In fact, it's the antithesis of why I wouldn't do the Melo trade but would have done a Starks for Miller swap. Today's Knicks' biggest weakness is defense, which Melo solves none of. Biggest thing Knicks of 94 needed to address was a second consistent scorer next to Ewing, which Reggie would have been better at than Starks.

And in each case with Melo and Reggie and their respective, relative weaknesses in regards to the team they would be going to, Melo's is much bigger than Reggie's.

martin wrote:

BlueSeats wrote:

martin wrote:
Seems to me Donnie is getting players for MDA but in his own defensive flair/flavor

Could be. And I suppose it might be fair to say D' doesn't like "ball stoppers," but is Melo any more of a stopper than Amare? Maybe one is enough?

I'm having trouble remembering how he used Joe Johnson with Amare. Did he have him camped out behind the arc like Q or did he let him put the ball on the floor?

no idea what JJ did but I think he was on the perimeter, not a ball handler; that was before the time he wanted to be a PG.

I think Donnie is weighing carefully between building a more defensive team vs getting an all-star wing player who can just flat out bring it night in and night out (and at what cost to bring him to the team).

I have a sneaking suspicion that there is a left-field deal out there that none of us are considering but which Donnie is setting up, ala the DLee deal.

Not sure I agree with each point of author of this vid, but notice how many times Melo's name comes up:

2:36 "felton is by no means a good defender..."

this guy is a fraud.

TMS wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

TMS wrote:

damn, this guy sucks... who needs him

I could pull out some AR youtube clips...look.. these clips do not tell the whole story and you know it..

melo's cons are, poor shot pct, suspect d, and doesn't pass the ball much..If you can live with a player earning that kinda of salary, and he makes your #2 in the league offense much better, then hey,,knock youself out

so let me get this straight... picking out some sequences where Melo is seen to play horrible defense to make a case as to why we don't need him on this team is OK, but picking out some highlight footage showing what Melo can bring to a basketball team isn't... gotcha... it's always good to consider all sides to an argument, just as long as they agree with your argument i guess.

i don't think anyone here is under some illusion that Melo is a good defensive player... the reason why people want him on this team is because of the fact he's probably 1 of the top 2 or 3 scorers in the NBA... now if u don't care to have a player like that on your team & would rather stick with what we have, that's your choice... if it makes u feel better to delude yourself into thinking that DW agrees with your notion that we don't need Melo here, knock yourself out... my bet is that Donnie Walsh wants Melo in NY & do does James Dolan.

but hey, i guess you wouldn't want Kevin Durant on the Knicks either, considering his defense & FG% this year are also suspect & doesn't pass the ball that much.

did you like his attitude during the game? i didnt. he didnt come across as a leader, he seemed lazy, ...i could go on and on.

BlueSeats wrote:

tkf wrote:you see, this is why I am going to try and ignore your post.. I was all against getting melo and have stuck by this for months, and then here you come, with these thought provoking post, and damn, I would love to say they don't make sense, but you have some good points... so I will just retreat and think of a rebuttal.. because now, you have me stumped and frustrated..

the post about starks takes the cake.. you haven't changed a bit bro.. hahaha..

good post...

Thanks bro, it's good to care again. BTW, I'm always looking out for your posts and game notes.

I only read 1 thread from RealGM, and only the first post in it.

Question is how much does Mike value that and is it important enough to risk messing up the chemistry he's got his team playing with? Also is adding him enough to push this team into the Elite level of the league?

BlueSeats wrote:

martin wrote: it's the antithesis of why I wouldn't do the Melo trade but would have done a Starks for Miller swap. Today's Knicks' biggest weakness is defense, which Melo solves none of.

I think that's easy to say with Amare scoring 30+ per game going up against some of the weaker teams of the league, but I don't think it will be the case against the big boys packing the middle. And I don't think it was true earlier in the season when we had our losing streak.

And what if Amare goes down for a spell? We've seen how well Chandler and Gallo can carry a team and it's not far. People can say Melo never goes far in the playoffs but A) he's usually knocked out by the Spurs or Lakers, etc, B) the Nuggets only look good on paper, but really their bigs have been very inconsistent. The only consistent guy for that team is Melo, and it's a testament to his scoring prowess that he drags that team to the playoffs year after year -- an accomplishment I doubt we'll see from Chandler or Gallo.

you add Melo to Amare and you are left with little manueverablility.

How do you beat the Lakers? Or Miami? Or Boston? I can see that team maybe getting past Orlando.

BTW, if teams can beat the Knicks by packing the paint to stop Amare, what do Melo really get you? All you have to do is pack the paint some more.

martin wrote:

BlueSeats wrote:

martin wrote:

BlueSeats wrote:

tkf wrote:you see, this is why I am going to try and ignore your post.. I was all against getting melo and have stuck by this for months, and then here you come, with these thought provoking post, and damn, I would love to say they don't make sense, but you have some good points... so I will just retreat and think of a rebuttal.. because now, you have me stumped and frustrated..

the post about starks takes the cake.. you haven't changed a bit bro.. hahaha..

good post...

Thanks bro, it's good to care again. BTW, I'm always looking out for your posts and game notes.

I only read 1 thread from RealGM, and only the first post in it.

Huh? Who's talking about RGM? I haven't read that site since I coming here in 2005?

haha fair enough. for whatever reason TKF only posts his Cliff Notes version over here.

Don't tell me that!