Childs2Dudley wrote:Half of these guys are not even better than Mozgov and don't deserve to take development time from him.

Jeffries, Joe Smith, Mohammed, Speights, KWAME BROWN??, no-knees K-Mart, Thabust??? The hell is going on here?

were definitely on the same page here, but on another note, i just place my all star vote and when it came time to choose a center, i think there was only 11 per coast..that center position is completely over-rated at this point.

IMO, size matters in the playoffs, other then that, you can get by with just having good rebounders, and shot blockers.

Most of thess bigs in the league today would never have made it in the 70's, 80's and 90's, thats clearly evident in that crack head list BRIGGS put together....thats like a list full of chis dudley's,luc longly's and bill wenningtons's.

TLover wrote:Jerome Jordan is in Europe but maybe he could be that guy...eventually with Mozgov.

Not good with pasting charts that are readable into a post- here is the link:

http://www.eurobasket.com/player.asp?Cntry=SRB&PlayerID=105287

Jordan doesn't play a ton of minutes- rarely more than 15. His shooting % is very high, which makes me think most of his shots are dunks or layups.

In 10+ MPG he is averaging 7-8 PPG and about 2.5 RPG with some blocked shots.

I have not seen him play at all.

I think the one guy I'm willing to change this roster around for is Bogut. If Milw was having a firesale and wanted to dump Bogut/Salmons I would think VERY hard about offering them Curry's expiring contract along w/ Fields/Chandler/Douglas/AR/(Mosgov or Turiaf)
I think with ZERO doubt, that Bogut/Amare/Gallo (all 6'10 plus) would be THE best frontcourt in the NBA and would win titles. You keep Felton and his tough guy play, move Williams to SG (who at 6'9 is a matchup nightmare) and your bench is Turiaf, Salmons, Bill Walker and whoever else earn minutes.

To me a Bogut/Amare/Gallo frontcourt makes the Knicks the best team in the league, or a top 3-4 for sure. You just spending the next couple of years tinkering the bench and finding shooters.

I think its a pipedream but hey. Bogut is a game changer on defense. Melo isnt.

Just looking around at the expiring bigs,
his name stuck out. Loved his toughness
during his Washington days.

The Knicks improvement is a long term plan. We need to ignore a desire to have the Knicks win every game possible and instead focus on building for the future with excellent pieces that will ultimately be good enough to allow us to compete for a championship. Mosgov doesn't have the necessary experience, but he is blessed with a unique combination of both superior height, and both speed and endurance. Plus he has the beginning of an outside game, and apparently he is a very good learner.

D'Antoni sees all of his players work out and play games. He knows who is making progress and who isn't. What makes you guys think that you know better than him and Donnie Walsh as well?

NYKBocker wrote:

fishmike wrote:I posted this in another thread:

I think the one guy I'm willing to change this roster around for is Bogut. If Milw was having a firesale and wanted to dump Bogut/Salmons I would think VERY hard about offering them Curry's expiring contract along w/ Fields/Chandler/Douglas/AR/(Mosgov or Turiaf)
I think with ZERO doubt, that Bogut/Amare/Gallo (all 6'10 plus) would be THE best frontcourt in the NBA and would win titles. You keep Felton and his tough guy play, move Williams to SG (who at 6'9 is a matchup nightmare) and your bench is Turiaf, Salmons, Bill Walker and whoever else earn minutes.

To me a Bogut/Amare/Gallo frontcourt makes the Knicks the best team in the league, or a top 3-4 for sure. You just spending the next couple of years tinkering the bench and finding shooters.

I think its a pipedream but hey. Bogut is a game changer on defense. Melo isnt.

I like Bogut a lot and I agree that a Bogut/Amare/Gallo frontcourt would be the BEST frontcourt in the NBA. This would be like the frontcourt of Parish/McHale/Bird. They would all compliment each other.

A package of Curry/Chandler/AR/TD/Walker for Bogut/Salmons works contract wise. That is a lot of players for Bogut but I think you need to overpay for an All-Star Center.

C-Bogut
PF-Amare
SF-Gallo
SG-Fields
PG-Felton

Bench-Williams, Salmons, Timo, Ronnie, Rautins.

We would need to get a backup PG.

Posted in the other thread, but I don't think Bogut/Amare (on the offensive end) would work in a D'Antoni system. We run our offense through Amare (and still would on that team), who operates from the high post and needs the paint cleared. If we ran our offense through Bogut and the low post, and changed our system to a more Princeton offense variety like the 2000 Sacramento Kings, then I think it would work great. But D'Antoni has yet to ever utilize a low post player in his system, so who knows if he'll adapt to his personnel...past history has shown he just won't give the low post player a lot of minutes, or demand him to learn to shoot jumpers.

Defensively though, Bogut/Amare sounds great.

rvwink wrote:D'Antoni sees all of his players work out and play games. He knows who is making progress and who isn't. What makes you guys think that you know better than him and Donnie Walsh as well?

Fans, by definition, feel they know more than coaches and GMs do. Nothing new.

I'm always saying the same thing about practice- as fans we have no idea how guys are looking/progressing unless we see them play live or on TV, and even then we might not see things the way a coach or GM sees them.

Just the nature of a forum, I suppose.

rvwink wrote:With the pieces we now have, it seems likely that the Knicks will make the playoffs. So what is the upside to bringing in some stop gap rebounder, with the extreme cost of disrupting the development of Mosgov and Randolph as a result. Why is winning a few extra games this season worth disrupting the development of players that D'Antoni in particular thinks can develop into important pieces in his system. In the past Mike has taken players who weren't performing all that well, and they have worked great in his system.

The Knicks improvement is a long term plan. We need to ignore a desire to have the Knicks win every game possible and instead focus on building for the future with excellent pieces that will ultimately be good enough to allow us to compete for a championship. Mosgov doesn't have the necessary experience, but he is blessed with a unique combination of both superior height, and both speed and endurance. Plus he has the beginning of an outside game, and apparently he is a very good learner.

D'Antoni sees all of his players work out and play games. He knows who is making progress and who isn't. What makes you guys think that you know better than him and Donnie Walsh as well?

Oh no no no no defeatist attitude.. If someone tells me why winning a few extra games doesnt mean anything and NOTHING less than an absolute goal of winning it all(its ok to come up short of a goal)Id like to hear the reasoning after I vomit. I DO NOT believe in losing unless rebuilding--EVERY game counts.... I am not giving up one stinking point for Mosgov or Randolph let alone game. The SECOND Amare started playing like an MVP the second Ray Felton upped his game to the upper echelon and the fact that we have 4 outstanding perimeter players that mesh with size the goals change my man---the goals at the start of the season have changed. Let me tell you something if i could turn Mosgov and Randolph into a player like Bogut or if I could even change Randolph into Jason Thompson--I would do it today. I would also use any NON core asset-TD to improve the team NOW including if a deal was that good---giving up FA. I don't think you ever use a defeatist attitude in sports especially when you have atleast a top 5 player in the game on your team. No rvwink Im sorry but youre wrong here.