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OT: Spoelstra on the way out?
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JrZyHuStLa
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11/29/2010  1:11 PM
It's not Spoelstra. It's Lebron, Wade, and Bosh Spice.
AUTOADVERT
martin
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11/29/2010  1:11 PM
NYKBocker wrote:
franco12 wrote:If Riles were smart, he should trade Lebron straight up for Chris Paul!

Chris Paul is not the type of player that can succeed with Wade either. Wade or LeBron needs a PG like Fisher is to Kobe or Kerr/Paxson/BJArmstrong is to Jordan. Unless one of them decides to be just like Ron Harper or Pippen and defer to the other, they will never succeed. Bosh is just dudu.

yeah, I agree with this.

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JrZyHuStLa
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11/29/2010  1:16 PM
The Heat would have no more than 5 losses right now if CP3 was on that team.
martin
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11/29/2010  1:18 PM
JrZyHuStLa wrote:The Heat would have no more than 5 losses right now if CP3 was on that team.

neither would the Knicks.

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Solace
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11/29/2010  1:19 PM
martin wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:The Heat would have no more than 5 losses right now if CP3 was on that team.

neither would the Knicks.

Neither would the Hornets.

Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
AnubisADL
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11/29/2010  1:21 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/29/2010  1:22 PM
franco12 wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:Wade needs to stop trying to draw fouls and start hitting mid range jumpers. Wade seems to only score on ISO's.

I know Im going to get laughed at but Miami would be better off with Arenas than Wade at this point.

Is it just me, or is Wade a really bad shooter?

And if he isn't getting fouled and phantom calls, how is he going to score?

His mid range game is decent. The main issue is the offense they are running has TERRIBLE spacing. Now they cant all stand around the 3 because they have no shooters.

Basically the offense needs revamping and they dont respect Spoelstra. Enter Pay Riley.

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arkrud
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11/29/2010  1:37 PM
This whole debacle is an indication of overal tendency in NBA to replace the team oriented ball with star showup bbal.
Making wrestling from boxing is just producing a bunch of clowns, so they want NBA look as a bunch of running clowns.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Knixkik
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11/29/2010  1:49 PM
Did these guys have no-trade clauses in their contracts? I'm pretty sure they did not, and why wouldn't they? Not quite sure about the rules there. They probably should have though, because any one of them could get traded. Realistically, if they are still playing at the same level by feb, someone is getting traded, likely Bosh. But still, what stops this team from trading James for Paul? It's unlikely to happen, but you never know. I would expect Bosh to go in a large deal that brings back a good defensive center and an upgrade at the point. Maybe they find a 3 or 4 team trade that trades Bosh and parts and brings back Billups as well as a quality big man from somewhere. Who knows, maybe we also get involved and that same blockbuster deal lands Melo here.
NYKBocker
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11/29/2010  1:49 PM
LeDouche just keeps getting better and better.
smackeddog
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11/29/2010  1:52 PM
nixluva wrote:I know it's petty, but i'm enjoying every loss and every report of the Heat having internal problems. After the way they celebrated it turned me off to them and I can't see them lose enough games. It's my new pastime. I check in to see how they're doing and I've been loving the struggle. Don't know how long this will last, but it's fun to watch. Maybe they implode.

I agree- any day that results in a Knicks win and a Miami loss, is particularly pleasing! Reading that article, I can't help but smirk at what seems to be described as being too hard on players these days- really, you'd of thought Lebron would have learnt his lesson about messing around last year- I think Marc Jackson made a comment on it during the playoffs coverage.

But I'm not going to be too smug because I know that Lebron, Wade and Bosh wanted Riley to coach them, and to be honest I think this whole slow start thing is just a chirade until he takes over. I think they'll get much better once he's in charge. However if the new CBA puts an end to the MLE then Miami may well be screwed in the near future because there's no way the can add talent to that roster without it.

Panos
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11/29/2010  1:55 PM
"He's jumping on them," one source said. "If anything, he's been too tough on them. Everybody knows LeBron is playful and likes to joke around, but Spoelstra told him in front of the whole team that he has to get more serious. The players couldn't believe it. They feel like Spoelstra's not letting them be themselves."

Awww.... is Spolestra stealing Lebron's joy? Awww...

TMS
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11/29/2010  1:57 PM
karma's a you know what.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
GodSaveTheKnicks
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11/29/2010  2:52 PM
Hollinger's take. Methinks maybe the Big Three are all partying too much or something?

Seventy-three and nine?

Ha. Try 9-9.

That will be Miami's record if it doesn't win Monday. Nine and nine. And while the schedule-makers have handed the Heat a near-certain respite from .500 with a home game against Washington, Miami may not avoid that destination for long if its play doesn't improve significantly.

Following the Great Hatefest in Cleveland on Thursday, Miami's schedule difficulty steepens in December. Nine of 14 are on the road, including two West Coast trips, and home dates against New Orleans, Dallas and Atlanta offer little relief. The Heat may not be .500 at the end of Monday, in other words, but they could be by the time you're done with Christmas dinner.

The Heat aren't quite as bad off in the Power Rankings and playoff odds -- 10th in the former, slated for 48 wins and a No. 5 seed in the latter. But saying, "They're better than their record," while technically true, also completely misses the more important point that they're still dramatically worse than anybody could have possibly expected.

Moreover, they're trending in the wrong direction. Miami's first 12 games, when the Heat were supposed to be building their chemistry, were actually quite strong. In between close losses to Boston and New Orleans were a series of one-sided wins, including an impressive blowout of mighty Orlando, and a fluke loss to Utah in which the Jazz made four 3-pointers in the final half-minute of regulation.

In contrast, the past five games have been pitiful -- Miami barely beat Philadelphia at home and dropped the other four. While the embarrassing home loss to Indiana looks slightly less embarrassing in the wake of the Pacers' win at the Lakers on Sunday, the overall body of work is difficult to explain away. Faced with a slate in which one would have expected Miami to go 3-2 at worst, the Heat were 1-4 with a minus-29 scoring margin.

So how the heck are they 9-8? We've heard all kinds of reasons. Put Miami under the microscope, and you'll be amazed with how many factors aren't to blame. Compare the Heat's play to date with what we expected before the season, and here's what jumps out at you:

It's not the injuries to Mike Miller and Udonis Haslem.

No disrespect to these two fine gentlemen, but if you can't overcome the loss of Miller and Haslem, you probably weren't destined for greatness to begin with. Haslem had a player efficiency rating of 12.80 before he went out, and Miller's PER last year was at 14.00. Both players are helpful at the margins, in other words, but they're not the difference between world domination and drawing Indiana in the 4-5 series in the East.
More importantly, it's come to my attention that the Heat have not been the only NBA team to suffer an injury this year. By and large, they've been among the fortunate ones. Any health issues with secondary players have been more than offset by LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh appearing in 50 of a possible 51 games -- more than could have been expected given the histories of Bosh and Wade in particular.

It's not the one-ball theory.

With only one ball to go around, the theory goes, Wade, James and Bosh were bound to suffer because each would have to settle for fewer shots. When I modeled this problem before the season, my answer was that the usage rate for each player (the percentage of possessions used by each player) would diminish by surprisingly little.

The drop-off has been a bit worse than I expected. James, at 32.3 last year, is at 30.3 so far. Wade, at 33.2 a year ago, has fallen to 28.2. And Bosh has suffered the most, falling from 25.9 to 20.4. But even those drops are not dramatic enough to explain the Heat's failures thus far.

And there's a particular reason for part of the drop that isn't endemic to the one-ball issue. We'll get to that in a minute.

It's not the lack of point guard and center play.

Miami's two starters at those positions have not been dramatically worse than average. Carlos Arroyo, with a PER of 13.05, and Zydrunas Ilgauskas, with a mark of 15.23, have actually been somewhat better than most analysts expected. At times, in fact, the Heat's most coherent offense has come from pick-and-pop plays involving the two. The mystery here is why they haven't played more -- the duo averages just 40 minutes a game between them.

We can extend this point further, actually, because it's not just the other two starters who have given the Heat little to bemoan.

It's not the supporting cast.

Sure, it would have been nice if the Heat hadn't thrown out Dorell Wright with the bathwater or given up on Michael Beasley a year too soon, but Miami's supporting cast hasn't been dramatically different from what we expected.

By and large, they've done exactly what they've been asked. The players who are supposed to space the floor are making their 3s -- Eddie House is at 40 percent and James Jones is at 40.5 percent, while Arroyo has chipped in a rather unexpected 61.9 percent clip. The reserve big men -- Jamaal Magloire, Juwan Howard, Haslem -- have largely played to expectations, with Magloire in fact being a bit better than hoped for.

The lone disappointment from the group has been Joel Anthony, but (A) this didn't exactly come as a huge shock, even to people (like me) who expected big things from Miami, and (B) every other Heat player to play at least five minutes per game has a PER of 11.0 or greater. That's about as much as Miami could have hoped for.

So ...

If it's not the rest of the roster, and if it's not that the lack of touches, and if it's not injuries, that leads us to only one conclusion:

It's the Big Three, stupid.

The reason the Heat are struggling so much is because all three stars they signed this summer have performed dramatically worse than anyone expected. This has been offered by many people as an item in a list, sort of a partial explanation of Miami's struggles. But that misses the point. The struggles of Wade, Bosh and James aren't a part of the explanation; they're the entire explanation.

Everything else has gone more or less exactly to form except one major factor: James and Wade are headed for their lowest PERs since their rookie seasons, and Bosh is on pace for his lowest since his second campaign. Together, they've dive-bombed more than 20 points of PER, with Wade's 8.57-point decline representing one of the greatest in recent NBA annals. The three players who ranked first, third and fourth in PER a year ago can't be found in this year's top 10.

Offensively, Miami hasn't scored more than 95 points in any of its past six games, and the Big Three's numbers explain why.

James, a 47.4 percent career shooter, is shooting 43.6 percent overall and 26.2 percent on 3s. He's also averaging more than four turnovers a game, after posting among the lowest turnover rates at his position while he was with Cleveland.

Wade is shooting a career-low 44.1 percent, and while it may seem he's become more reliant on the 3, actually the difference is microscopic. Wade has gone from taking 16.1 percent of his attempts beyond the arc last year to 18.4 percent this year. Given the 17-game sample, this is hardly a difference worth mentioning.

What is worth mentioning is that his turnover rate, like that of James, has skyrocketed in the early season, and that like James he's having an unusual amount of trouble making 2-point shots.

Bosh has suffered the smallest PER decline of the three despite the greatest decline in shots, and in his case the entirety of the change can be explained by a lack of rebounds. Bosh pulled 12.0 boards per 40 minutes in Toronto last season, but has fallen to a meager 8.6 this season. His inability to rebound, especially on the offensive end, has largely explained why the Heat have been so mediocre on the glass this year despite having two of the best rebounding perimeter players in the world in James and Wade.

Bosh's low offensive rebound total also explains why his usage rate has declined so much. It's not the lack of a ball to share that's hurt him; it's that the touches he got from second shots have vanished.

The star trio's decline shows up in some other areas, too. Last year, for instance, the Heat ranked third in the NBA in defensive efficiency despite a lack of quality size, because they were among the most disruptive teams in basketball. Miami narrowly missed leading the league in blocked shot rate and was a top-10 side in forcing turnovers. With Wade and James playing the passing lanes and wreaking havoc from the weak side, that figured to continue.

While Miami's overall defensive stats remain very respectable (the recent losing streak has mostly been an offensive phenomenon), they'd be a lot better if the Big Three were at their norms.

Remember all those chase-down blocks LeBron had in Cleveland? He has nine blocked shots in 17 games with the Heat.

Remember how Wade would dart into passing lanes? He's down to 1.2 steals per game, a far cry from the 1.8 and 2.2 he averaged the previous two seasons.

Remember when Bosh would grab defensive rebounds? Not happening in 2010-11 -- fully a quarter of his defensive boards have vanished into the ether.

We can offer up all the tangential reasons we want, but for this edition of the Heat it comes down to a very simple reality. Either Wade, James and Bosh will revert to playing somewhere near their historical levels and resume their quest for domination over the free world, or they will continue putting up these relatively paltry numbers, which won't be nearly enough to overcome a supporting cast that's exactly as limited as we thought.

There is no amount of Mike Millers, Udonis Haslems or Erick Dampiers that can offset or overcome this singular issue: James, Wade and Bosh simply must play better. Some might note that this 17-game sample is an aberration from the 500-game sample of the rest of their careers, and note that this means Miami's odds of recovery are good. But time's a wastin'.

Let's try to elevate the level of discourse in this byeetch. Please
cheers
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11/29/2010  2:57 PM
"if you can't overcome the loss of Miller and Haslem, you probably weren't destined for greatness to begin with."

QFT

Nalod
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11/29/2010  3:03 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/29/2010  3:13 PM

I like Spolestra but he sold his soul also I guess with Riley's.

The "SuperFriends" thing is crap and its problematic.

Im reminded by the Beatles who remained together for a few struggling years putting out some hits and misses as well but stuck together despite not liking each other.

In his new book, Keith Richards tells how strained his relationship with Mick Jagger is and they really can't stand each other. But they make music and millions together. ITs not always about fun.

The reasons Lebron wanted "Superfriends" was from his experience from the olympics where the "Redeem Team" had so much fun beating the snot out of the rest of the field.

But he should be reminded it was a three week tournament they won and this is a long grueling season.

Look back on Jordans run. He is not dancing, throwing chaulk for self admiration, and not having fun. Jordan first three resulted in an near nervous breakdown and his "retirement" to baseball. YOu remember "Space Jam" don't you? I don't think Mike was really obducted by Daffy Duck and Bugs Bunny but maybe it seemed like it after he might have drifted over the "white lines" of the highway too many times with gambling and his pops getting murdered. Pressure, public persona and the deisire to win takes its toll on a man.

Mike was golden! DUde has a break down, fails out of baseball, makes a movie about with Bugs and Company, makes another gazillion off that and then comes back! Lebron has "The Decision" and it all falls to pieces.

Lesson: call Bugs Bunny next time for the decision. Not Jim Gray!

Winning championships is not fun. Its a sociopathic journey that requires concentration and dedication. The superfriends are not cut from the same cloth as Jordan, Magic, Bird or Kobe. Wade had a nice run but it was not sustainable and it required Shaq to push him along.

They might win on sheer talent which is what most expected but they are three deep and thats about it.

Having a servicable point and Center helps. Arroyo and Damp won't get it done.

Paladin55
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11/29/2010  3:12 PM
cheers wrote:i saw the heat/magic game-- heat were not out-coached they were out-played. lebron and wade are way too identical, they both like to keep busy with the ball. bosh looks like odd man out but at least his game is more complimentary to lebron and wade

It is something a lot of folks speculated on. Wade and James both need the ball to be effective- especially their outside games. The same would have been true if James had gone to Chicago, Rose also needs the ball to be at this best and establish a shooting rhythm.

I don't feel sorry for any of these guys, though.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
matt
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11/30/2010  12:18 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Relationship-between-LeBron-and-coach-gets-chill?urn=nba-290079

This is just great. I don't think there is anyone not enjoying this fiasco

cheers
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11/30/2010  2:11 PM
if riley fires spoelstra knicks should sign him to the coaching staff. that would heat up the ny/miami rivarly nicely.
tkf
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11/30/2010  2:15 PM
AnubisADL wrote:Lebron and Bosh didnt come to Miami to be coached by SPO. Riley convinced them to come to Miami and they want Riley as their coach.

and as long as they continue to give half assed efforts they will not be sucessful under riley... this is not about spoelstra, it is about 3 guys who were bad fits, who seemingly want to "chill" more than work..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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11/30/2010  2:16 PM
Nalod wrote:No, they don't want Riles as the coach. Riles is brutal. He was very upfront that Eric is the coach when they signed.

Riles needs to go down there and assure Eric he is the man and tell the players to work thru it with him.

Lebron is a mental midget and thinks the heat are the olympic team and they gonna have a fun in the sun.

Guess he forgot the cap and the fact his support team is a not up to championship levels.

Think a guy like Lebron wouldn't appreciate a Landry Fields? A real point guard? A beast like Amare? A creative coach?

Its nice to have fun and put on a show, but this is "Show business" and they have to put a lot of mental energy into it.

He burned thru a great coach in Mike Brown for some fantasy south beach thing.

bingo.. let me add a packed MSG with crazy fans.... A young shooter in gallo and a good slasher in chandler.....

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
OT: Spoelstra on the way out?

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