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Toney Douglas
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TMS
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11/24/2010  1:42 PM
NYKBocker wrote:
TMS wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:Sergio is playing in Spain right now right? Can we even get him if situation arises?

why would you want him back? dude was crap when he was here.

I think he was not a fit last year with the players we had. I think in a running system like we have now he should excel. I mean last year he would run and push the ball and no one ran with him.

i think he was good at running & pushing the ball, but made HORRIBLE decisions & played completely out of control... i dunno how much better he would have looked w/Fields & Amare running w/him rather than Nate & Al.

i think we should be looking to add more of a complement to Ray's uptempo style game... if there is a PG out there we can get that plays like a Luke Ridnour or Steve Blake, i think that would make for a better fit to run the PnR w/Amare & give this team some balance... they can't just keep running all game long, eventually they'll have to run half court sets.

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umynot
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11/24/2010  1:47 PM
TheSage wrote:If TD can't do it when called upon, we operate with Fields at pg (if he has the quickness-(I haven't seen him trying to guard smaller quick guards)or let them operate with Fields at point forward. Rautins is as fit to play pg as TD-he was SG in college.

Rather see Gallo run Point Forward

Let TD play off the ball....

Still need a back up PG...... Cant run a team with only one PG

TD is a SG not a PG thats for sure

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Ira
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11/24/2010  3:12 PM
Seeing Sergio and Douglas last season, I think it's obvious that Sergio is a step down from TD. It's not a question of getting a backup pg, but of getting one who is good enough to be an asset to this team.
umynot
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11/24/2010  3:15 PM
I say Mayo would be a good target for us ......

Trade TD and Chandler for Mayo

Or Rubio...... Shouldn't he be a Knick already!!

KNICKS on the way UP!!!
NYKBocker
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11/24/2010  4:05 PM
umynot wrote:I say Mayo would be a good target for us ......

Trade TD and Chandler for Mayo

Or Rubio...... Shouldn't he be a Knick already!!

Kahn and Donnie Nelson(Curry) really screwed us.

Olbrannon
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11/24/2010  4:42 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/24/2010  5:31 PM
5 starts at PG last year on a team with less talent?
NY vs Dallas Knicks win Mar 13
T. Douglas G 30:52 8-10 4-4 1-2 +22 0 2 2 8 2 1 0 1 0 21
NY vs Philly Knicks win Mar 15
T. Douglas G 36:52 7-13 2-6 4-4 +15 0 1 1 7 2 3 3 0 1 20
NY vs Boston Celtics win Mar 17
T. Douglas G 41:29 5-13 1-6 0-0 -16 5 2 7 3 1 3 3 0 2 11
NY vs Philly Knicks win Mar 19
T. Douglas G 23:31 7-13 4-7 4-5 +4 1 4 5 2 5 2 2 0 0 22
NY vs Hos Knicks lose Mar 21
T. Douglas G 37:02 10-19 6-10 0-0 +5 0 3 3 4 5 2 5 0 0 26
NY vs Den Knicks win Mar 23
T. Douglas G 35:22 5-11 2-5 4-6 +7 0 2 2 7 3 0 2 0 1 16

6 starts all away. One bad game.....right this guys really killing you...

Bill Simmons on Tyreke Evans "The prototypical 0-guard: Someone who handles the ball all the time, looks for his own shot, gets to the rim at will and operates best if his teammates spread the floor to watch him."
franco12
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11/24/2010  4:56 PM
why is everyone complaining about Douglas, when our starting PG can't dribble and probably has 30% of all his passes deflected by defenders?
Childs2Dudley
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11/24/2010  4:58 PM
franco12 wrote:why is everyone complaining about Douglas, when our starting PG can't dribble and probably has 30% of all his passes deflected by defenders?

Brilliant statistics but the numbers so far say otherwise.

Raymond has been running the team well after a slow start. He has played very well during the winning streak.

People are complaining about Douglas because he cannot run a team. He has no PG skills whatsoever and the offense stagnates when is on the court without Felton.

We need a backup PG.

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fishmike
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11/24/2010  5:14 PM
knicks1248 wrote:When the coaching staff stops trying to turn this kid into anything more then a steaky scorer, who plays good D, they"ll soon figure out that a back up pg is a must, regaurdless if felton goes down.

At this point, I already believe MDA has come close to relizing that and pretty much tweaked is playbook (and made everyone a playmakers) so they would not have to soley rely on TD running the show for more then a possesion or 2.

He's using TD in the same sense he was using nate and barbosa, a scoring guard off the bench. The ideal back up would be STEVE BLAKE, not sergio, who plays at a 100 mph for every play. This team is not a great fast break team, but they are playing a quicker half court game

I believe that is the very definition of a backup PG. Just saying...

Look at the 8-10 best teams in the NBA and their backup PGs... the only team I would say that has a much better backup PG than Douglas is George Hill. He could start on 20 teams easy.

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Olbrannon
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11/24/2010  5:15 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/24/2010  5:59 PM
Douglas is just doing what coach asks of him. I saw one shot he took that was poor shot selection in last nights game.
Chandler took like 3 yet no one is crying about Chandler.

Or that on that poor run with him at point one of the TO's was all on Stat. Dribbling into a triple team as usual. Charlotte
clogged the middle and played a zone. How do you beat a zone people? Pass the ball and hit the outside shot. Doesn't matter
who has the ball you don't dribble penetrate a zone defense.

Edit: That said I saw him bury the same shot last year at least twice.

Bill Simmons on Tyreke Evans "The prototypical 0-guard: Someone who handles the ball all the time, looks for his own shot, gets to the rim at will and operates best if his teammates spread the floor to watch him."
knicks1248
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11/24/2010  5:18 PM
Olbrannon wrote:Douglas is just doing what coach asks of him. I saw one shot he took that was poor shot selection in last nights game.
Chandler took like 3 yet no one is crying about Chandler.



Or that on that poor run with him at point one of the TO's was all on Stat. Dribbling into a triple team as usual. Charlotte
clogged the middle and played a zone. How do you beat a zone people? Pass the ball and hit the outside shot. Doesn't matter
who has the ball you don't dribble penetrate a zone defense.

This isn't a chandler thread

ES
franco12
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11/24/2010  5:45 PM
Childs2Dudley wrote:
franco12 wrote:why is everyone complaining about Douglas, when our starting PG can't dribble and probably has 30% of all his passes deflected by defenders?

Brilliant statistics but the numbers so far say otherwise.

Raymond has been running the team well after a slow start. He has played very well during the winning streak.

People are complaining about Douglas because he cannot run a team. He has no PG skills whatsoever and the offense stagnates when is on the court without Felton.

We need a backup PG.

What numbers aren't you looking at?

Felton's turnovers

Nov 23 vs. CHA...4
Nov 20 @ LAC...2
Nov 19 @ GSW...5
Nov 17 @ SAC...5
Nov 16 @ DEN...1
Nov 14 vs. HOU...4
Nov 12 @ MIN...4
Nov 10 vs. GSW...4
Nov 09 @ MIL...6
Nov 07 vs. PHI...3
Nov 05 vs. WAS...3
Nov 04 @ CHI...3

He's played SO WELL during the winning streak that we've been able to overcome his 16 turnovers, 4 per contest.

Sorry, but even though Felton has started to play better, he still turns it over far too much- and that's not an observation of stats, but watching him play. For every turn over, there is another play that nearly is so- a high dribble that he nearly gives up, a pass deflected we manage to gather in.

crzymdups
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11/25/2010  1:46 AM
Felton's turnovers come from pushing the tempo. Nash always has a lot of turnovers in Phoenix, believe he led the league in turnovers at about 3.8 t/o per game during one of his MVP years.

It comes with playing fast.

I think Ray is doing a great job.

Earlier in the year his turnovers came in forcing the PnR which was not good. Now they come in trying to push the ball up the floor and force the pace. I think those are "good" turnovers in a way. This team needs to push the pace when it can.

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gr33d
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11/25/2010  10:19 AM
Felton's turnovers are coming in half court sets though, from what I've seen. We do have more posessions then slower teams, so everyone's assists and turnovers are expected to be slightly inflated I would guess.

He's getting better with the PnR; it just seems like a repetition and chemistry thing. I see way too many low passes here, which slows Amare and makes him reach. Felton and Stat work way to hard for this to not improve. I'm betting that as the season get's closer to the mid-way point, those TO's will turn into nasty finishes more often.

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loweyecue
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11/25/2010  10:30 AM
TMS wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
TMS wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:Sergio is playing in Spain right now right? Can we even get him if situation arises?

why would you want him back? dude was crap when he was here.

I think he was not a fit last year with the players we had. I think in a running system like we have now he should excel. I mean last year he would run and push the ball and no one ran with him.

i think he was good at running & pushing the ball, but made HORRIBLE decisions & played completely out of control... i dunno how much better he would have looked w/Fields & Amare running w/him rather than Nate & Al.

i think we should be looking to add more of a complement to Ray's uptempo style game... if there is a PG out there we can get that plays like a Luke Ridnour or Steve Blake, i think that would make for a better fit to run the PnR w/Amare & give this team some balance... they can't just keep running all game long, eventually they'll have to run half court sets.

Scary but that almost sounds like Duhon.

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NYKBocker
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11/25/2010  10:43 AM
loweyecue wrote:
TMS wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
TMS wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:Sergio is playing in Spain right now right? Can we even get him if situation arises?

why would you want him back? dude was crap when he was here.

I think he was not a fit last year with the players we had. I think in a running system like we have now he should excel. I mean last year he would run and push the ball and no one ran with him.

i think he was good at running & pushing the ball, but made HORRIBLE decisions & played completely out of control... i dunno how much better he would have looked w/Fields & Amare running w/him rather than Nate & Al.

i think we should be looking to add more of a complement to Ray's uptempo style game... if there is a PG out there we can get that plays like a Luke Ridnour or Steve Blake, i think that would make for a better fit to run the PnR w/Amare & give this team some balance... they can't just keep running all game long, eventually they'll have to run half court sets.

Scary but that almost sounds like Duhon.

Duhon was fine if he did not play with blinders on. He was a bad PG to have because he froze out Gallo. You PG has to utilize his whole crew and not just a select few.

TD has some of this...maybe. I am not sure if he is still freezing out Gallo on purpose or he is just too dumb or just has no peripheral vision.

I love his D but the way he runs the offense is painful. Trying to run the PnR with him is just aweful. He always seem to get stuck on the perimeter and ends up chucking a 3 from the next county.

martin
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11/25/2010  10:52 AM
do you think it's hypocritical that we, as fans, want TD gone or limited in his off the bench play?

Dude is prob one of the better DEFENSIVE PGs off the bench and a lot of us are hating him because of his offensive limitations?

Perhaps we should just sit back and relax and give him some time with perhaps the best PG coach in the league?

Im not giving up hope, even though it's clear that he is behind on our expected learning curve.

You bring in the likes of Rautins and find out how much of a sieve and TO machine he would be against the lightest of pressure.

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TMS
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11/25/2010  12:18 PM
i personally like TD, but he's nowhere near a PG... he's an undersized SG.
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earthmansurfer
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11/25/2010  2:08 PM
Has it seemed like TD's defense is not where it was a few weeks ago or more? His 3 point shot has come really far but the rest of his game seems off. Don't get it.
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umynot
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11/25/2010  2:16 PM
TMS wrote:i personally like TD, but he's nowhere near a PG... he's an undersized SG.

Yeah totally agree..... Think he is much better off the ball. Defense and offense.

KNICKS on the way UP!!!
Toney Douglas

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