[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

I say we got for it now
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 2 of 3 ‹ Previous 1  2  3 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
martin
Posts: 76278
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
11/21/2010  1:15 PM
umynot wrote:
martin wrote:
umynot wrote:
knickstorrents wrote:With Bargnani as your center, you will never win a championship or get past the 2nd round even. The dude sucks.

Name 5 better C's in todays NBA better then Bargs

no idea if they are better 1-on-1, but there are guys I would want on a team built for playoffs before Barg, especially for their D:

Howard, Noah, Bogut, PGasol, Kendrick Perkins, Nene, Duncan (and maybe Lopez).

Duncan is not a C...... Neither really is Gasol

Jeez dude, if you wanna play the semantics game, Bargs is a tall small forward.

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
AUTOADVERT
umynot
Posts: 21465
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/4/2008
Member: #2093
USA
11/21/2010  1:41 PM
martin wrote:
umynot wrote:
martin wrote:
umynot wrote:
knickstorrents wrote:With Bargnani as your center, you will never win a championship or get past the 2nd round even. The dude sucks.

Name 5 better C's in todays NBA better then Bargs

no idea if they are better 1-on-1, but there are guys I would want on a team built for playoffs before Barg, especially for their D:

Howard, Noah, Bogut, PGasol, Kendrick Perkins, Nene, Duncan (and maybe Lopez).

Duncan is not a C...... Neither really is Gasol

Jeez dude, if you wanna play the semantics game, Bargs is a tall small forward.

My point is that Bargs as a C is not that bad an option

KNICKS on the way UP!!!
smackeddog
Posts: 38390
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/30/2005
Member: #883
11/21/2010  2:04 PM
BRIGGS wrote:Barnagni Calderon and Weems

for AR Mosgov Douglas Curry and Azubike #1 picks in 2014 and 2016

That would put us at

C-Barnanagi
F-Stoudemire
F Gallo
G Fields
G Felton
C Turriaf
F Chandler
G Weems
PG Calderon

That gives us our skill 7 foot C who will blend in nice with Amare and Gallo
and upgrade the bench

I guess my main worry with that lineup is defense and rebounding- Bargs would be ideal next to Amar'e if Amar'e was a great rebounder- unfortunately he's not, so I'd be pretty worried about rebounding and defense from the front court players- I think it would kind of cancel out the benefits of better spacing and 3pt shooting. If Troy Murphy wasn't in such a funk, he might be a better fit (okay his defense is just as bad and he's not as good a player as Bargs, but he shoots 3s and rebounds)

Also Calderon is a very poor defender- I don't know, D'Antoni is so poor at coaching defense, I'm reluctant to get players that aren't capable of playing it without coaching, though I think he'd be a very good distributer and shooter.

I think I prefered your idea of getting John Thompson- I really think our focus should be on getting a good rebounder at C or PF.
fishmike
Posts: 53846
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
11/21/2010  2:07 PM
I think Bargs is redundant. I like the skill set but we need a big who plays big. Thats why Turiaf looks so good. He banks and bruises and bodies up on guys.

The guy I wanted (obviously not and option now) was OK4, who is really Turiaf on roids. Doesnt score much but does at a high rate, cleans the glass and is a shot blocking machine. An Amare/OK4 frontcourt was the defensive pair I thought would make us elite, and by the way he's playing looks like I was right.

Someone like Hibbert would be nice, but he's blowing up and there is no way.

I'm inclined to just keep trying to get the most out of this group and improve internally. With Douglas, Gallo, Chandler, AR, Mosgov, Fields, even Turiaf I think there is a lot of room to improve internally and simply get our own guys better.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
martin
Posts: 76278
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
11/21/2010  2:14 PM
umynot wrote:
martin wrote:
umynot wrote:
martin wrote:
umynot wrote:
knickstorrents wrote:With Bargnani as your center, you will never win a championship or get past the 2nd round even. The dude sucks.

Name 5 better C's in todays NBA better then Bargs

no idea if they are better 1-on-1, but there are guys I would want on a team built for playoffs before Barg, especially for their D:

Howard, Noah, Bogut, PGasol, Kendrick Perkins, Nene, Duncan (and maybe Lopez).

Duncan is not a C...... Neither really is Gasol

Jeez dude, if you wanna play the semantics game, Bargs is a tall small forward.

My point is that Bargs as a C is not that bad an option

and so are Duncan and PGasol, and they are both light years ahead of Bargs.

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
Uptown
Posts: 31323
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 4/1/2008
Member: #1883
11/21/2010  2:23 PM
Hell to the nah to Bargs. After Love played volley ball off the glass the other night and Griffin put up NBA 2K11 highlights on us, Bargs only makes things worse. We need a defender in the paint.
umynot
Posts: 21465
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/4/2008
Member: #2093
USA
11/21/2010  2:30 PM
martin wrote:
umynot wrote:
martin wrote:
umynot wrote:
martin wrote:
umynot wrote:
knickstorrents wrote:With Bargnani as your center, you will never win a championship or get past the 2nd round even. The dude sucks.

Name 5 better C's in todays NBA better then Bargs

no idea if they are better 1-on-1, but there are guys I would want on a team built for playoffs before Barg, especially for their D:

Howard, Noah, Bogut, PGasol, Kendrick Perkins, Nene, Duncan (and maybe Lopez).

Duncan is not a C...... Neither really is Gasol

Jeez dude, if you wanna play the semantics game, Bargs is a tall small forward.

My point is that Bargs as a C is not that bad an option

and so are Duncan and PGasol, and they are both light years ahead of Bargs.

We could never get Duncan nor Gasol

KNICKS on the way UP!!!
martin
Posts: 76278
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
11/21/2010  2:34 PM
umynot wrote:
martin wrote:
umynot wrote:
martin wrote:
umynot wrote:
martin wrote:
umynot wrote:
knickstorrents wrote:With Bargnani as your center, you will never win a championship or get past the 2nd round even. The dude sucks.

Name 5 better C's in todays NBA better then Bargs

no idea if they are better 1-on-1, but there are guys I would want on a team built for playoffs before Barg, especially for their D:

Howard, Noah, Bogut, PGasol, Kendrick Perkins, Nene, Duncan (and maybe Lopez).

Duncan is not a C...... Neither really is Gasol

Jeez dude, if you wanna play the semantics game, Bargs is a tall small forward.

My point is that Bargs as a C is not that bad an option

and so are Duncan and PGasol, and they are both light years ahead of Bargs.

We could never get Duncan nor Gasol

dude, you keep changing the point of each response to make up for the fact that your previous one sucked

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
umynot
Posts: 21465
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/4/2008
Member: #2093
USA
11/21/2010  2:44 PM
Topic is that Bargs would make us better......

Someone dumb said Bargs sucks......

I asked name 5 better C's in league..... Get three PF on list

Then you argue that Duncan and Gasol are better which is easy....Never would argue that. We can't get those guys .... But if
Bargs is available I say he wouldn't hurt

Yet my responses suck

KNICKS on the way UP!!!
rp
Posts: 20756
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/31/2009
Member: #2965
USA
11/21/2010  2:56 PM
umynot wrote:
martin wrote:
umynot wrote:
martin wrote:
umynot wrote:
martin wrote:
umynot wrote:
knickstorrents wrote:With Bargnani as your center, you will never win a championship or get past the 2nd round even. The dude sucks.

Name 5 better C's in todays NBA better then Bargs

no idea if they are better 1-on-1, but there are guys I would want on a team built for playoffs before Barg, especially for their D:

Howard, Noah, Bogut, PGasol, Kendrick Perkins, Nene, Duncan (and maybe Lopez).

Duncan is not a C...... Neither really is Gasol

Jeez dude, if you wanna play the semantics game, Bargs is a tall small forward.

My point is that Bargs as a C is not that bad an option

and so are Duncan and PGasol, and they are both light years ahead of Bargs.

We could never get Duncan nor Gasol

Why we even talking about a trade with Raptors? The whole point to this topic is pointless unless briggs points out some source. Otherwise, this is just a discussion then I am fine with it.

"Failure is only postponed success as long as courage coaches ambition. The habit of persistence is the habit of victory" -Herbert Kaufman
rp
Posts: 20756
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/31/2009
Member: #2965
USA
11/21/2010  2:58 PM
umynot wrote:Topic is that Bargs would make us better......

Someone dumb said Bargs sucks......

I asked name 5 better C's in league..... Get three PF on list

Then you argue that Duncan and Gasol are better which is easy....Never would argue that. We can't get those guys .... But if
Bargs is available I say he wouldn't hurt

Yet my responses suck

I believe you asked to name other big C that is better. But I think you forgot to mentioned on your response that can be a possible trade.

"Failure is only postponed success as long as courage coaches ambition. The habit of persistence is the habit of victory" -Herbert Kaufman
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
11/21/2010  3:08 PM
I've watched Bargs and he's a really good player that would enhance this team. Yes he's not a C that gives you toughness and boards, but being that this is a system that rewards skill, he would thrive and we'd likely see a bump in offensive efficiency, thus offsetting the loss of some D. He's not a pushover on D, that's just the perception. Once again tho that rebounding would be an issue. Bargs is avg'ing only 5 rebs a game, but a lot of that is cuz he's on the perimeter on O and likely out of position a lot of the time. So it's a give and take. You get a ultra skilled big that can spread the floor even more and give you matchup advantages. He can pass is smart and skilled. In this system it would likely work.
umynot
Posts: 21465
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/4/2008
Member: #2093
USA
11/21/2010  3:10 PM
nixluva wrote:I've watched Bargs and he's a really good player that would enhance this team. Yes he's not a C that gives you toughness and boards, but being that this is a system that rewards skill, he would thrive and we'd likely see a bump in offensive efficiency, thus offsetting the loss of some D. He's not a pushover on D, that's just the perception. Once again tho that rebounding would be an issue. Bargs is avg'ing only 5 rebs a game, but a lot of that is cuz he's on the perimeter on O and likely out of position a lot of the time. So it's a give and take. You get a ultra skilled big that can spread the floor even more and give you matchup advantages. He can pass is smart and skilled. In this system it would likely work.

Nicely said

KNICKS on the way UP!!!
BRIGGS
Posts: 53275
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 7/30/2002
Member: #303
11/21/2010  5:36 PM
I would do this deal for Bargnani despite his lack of rebounding--I think there is no reason he cant get into the 7 range. This takes pressure off of Turriaf who can still be a major third hog(im scared this guy is going to get hurt) and also keep Amare minutes down a little more. The only way this would make sense to toronto would be our willingness to absorb Calderon--but if I did that Id want Weems(who I like)


This is just discussion but Im willing to forego FA IF the right deal that fit our remaining needs came to surface.

RIP Crushalot😞
Finestrg
Posts: 27296
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/1/2006
Member: #1069
11/21/2010  7:44 PM
Say we passed on high-priced Bargs & Calderon but were interested in a smaller deal for Weems & Dorsey...What do ya think we'd have to give up for that duo? Just curious..
BRIGGS
Posts: 53275
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 7/30/2002
Member: #303
11/21/2010  8:43 PM
Finestrg wrote:Say we passed on high-priced Bargs & Calderon but were interested in a smaller deal for Weems & Dorsey...What do ya think we'd have to give up for that duo? Just curious..

I think right now Id be happy if we just got back Thompson. I think we can wait to see if Azu is healthy and if not we have the goods to do something at he deadline. Thompson--I would do today.

RIP Crushalot😞
crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
11/21/2010  11:15 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
Finestrg wrote:Say we passed on high-priced Bargs & Calderon but were interested in a smaller deal for Weems & Dorsey...What do ya think we'd have to give up for that duo? Just curious..

I think right now Id be happy if we just got back Thompson. I think we can wait to see if Azu is healthy and if not we have the goods to do something at he deadline. Thompson--I would do today.

Agreed. Thompson today, a side of Mayo or Melo at the deadline. Thompson for AR doesn't really hurt our chances at Melo.

We need to get tougher inside - whether we get Melo or not.

¿ △ ?
knickstorrents
Posts: 21121
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/23/2010
Member: #3050
Hong Kong
11/22/2010  2:30 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/22/2010  2:30 AM
Can we first start with some baselines on what a championship level team has? To me it has to have:

1) Defends with Size (see Lakers, Celtics, Magic)
2) 4th quarter closer (Kobe, Pierce/Allen, Duncan, Deron Williams, Chauncey/Melo)
3) Has some way to get buckets in the paint when needed
4) Will net more possessions than opponents (by outrebounding opponents, steals, blocks, etc)
5) Excellent ball movement (either through several players that know a system like the Lakers, or through individual point guards that can get it done like Deron Williams or Rajon Rondo).

To me, Bargnani might help with #2, and with #5. He doesn't help with any of the others... and is he really that big of an upgrade over Turiaf? Turiaf helps with #1, 4, and 5... Do you see how bad we are when Turiaf leaves the game? We really have no replacement for him on our roster.

Bargnani is not the answer. Now, if Stoudemire was more of an intimidator type power forward we might be able to get by with a skill center... but we can't have finesse type players at both Forward and Center spots. It won't work come playoffs.

Rose is not the answer.
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
11/22/2010  6:59 AM
Can someone re eexplain the point behind fantasy trades again
I just hope that people will like me
franco12
Posts: 34069
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 2/19/2004
Member: #599
USA
11/22/2010  8:10 AM
knickstorrents wrote:Can we first start with some baselines on what a championship level team has? To me it has to have:

1) Defends with Size (see Lakers, Celtics, Magic)
2) 4th quarter closer (Kobe, Pierce/Allen, Duncan, Deron Williams, Chauncey/Melo)
3) Has some way to get buckets in the paint when needed
4) Will net more possessions than opponents (by outrebounding opponents, steals, blocks, etc)
5) Excellent ball movement (either through several players that know a system like the Lakers, or through individual point guards that can get it done like Deron Williams or Rajon Rondo).

To me, Bargnani might help with #2, and with #5. He doesn't help with any of the others... and is he really that big of an upgrade over Turiaf? Turiaf helps with #1, 4, and 5... Do you see how bad we are when Turiaf leaves the game? We really have no replacement for him on our roster.

Bargnani is not the answer. Now, if Stoudemire was more of an intimidator type power forward we might be able to get by with a skill center... but we can't have finesse type players at both Forward and Center spots. It won't work come playoffs.

I like that list. I'd add, or really tweak #2 to read has player who can get their shot off on their own.
Page 2 of 3 ‹ Previous 1  2  3 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
I say we got for it now
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy