So much for MDA not talking about the D. Also...

“Steve (Nash) can be the end-all guy,” D’Antoni said. “He can have the ball to start with, and when it leaves his hands, it’s over with. I think we have a team where the ball has to move more. We have to involve more people and get people open.”

I guess MDA can make an adjustment without Nash. Obvioulsy it all boils down to W's and L's but let the season play out before we declare MDA as a brain dead stiff posing as a coach....

The offense isn't just come down and jack 3's. If you had a chance to look at the plays, you'd all know this. The spread floor is for the purpose of weakening the D and allowing easier attacks on the basket. THE PLAYERS kept taking the easy way out and not executing the plays fully. The 3 isn't the primary play! Now we see the team making better use of the plays and getting to the line more. That's the whole idea. As for the ball movement, that was always supposed to be part of the offense. They were trying to run PnR a lot cuz that was a big part of the offense too. So now we go with less of that and more of the other aspects of the offense. The sets are the same, just the emphasis has changed.

Also, when it has been painfully proven that our PGs can't run the PnR effectively, he changed the offensive set. We are now more of a motion offense and moving the ball and having cutters to the basket. This is Felton's game in the halfcourt set. He can drive and dish with the best of them. Having a good passing big, Turiaf or Gallo, on the elbow is producing easy baskets for Amare, Fields and the Mayor. That backdoor play where Turiaf has the ball on the top of the key and Gallo or Fields walks under the basket has been money until yesterday when Brown made the adjustment and stopped that play.

MDA is a very good coach when using his system. He is not Pat Riley that adjusts to his teams strengths, Showtime to 90s Knicks, but he is not chopped liver either.

TMS wrote:so it took MDA 2+ years to finally get some of these guys to realize what he wants them to do in this offense & we're 7W-8L... is now the time to be praising his genius? i don't think it is to be honest... yes, he's got new guys to work with, but he's also been working w/some of the other guys for over 2 years... why has it taken this long for those guys to "play the way he wants them to" as you put it?

Do you even listen to yourself. This team started playing better in Denver, so that's 5 games ago. That means your critique of him was based on 10 Games to start the season!!! What the hell are you talking about? TEN New players and you wanna bring up the last 2 years? Is Gallo showing signs of getting what Mike wants him to do or not? TD has had some bad moments, but he's also been pretty instrumental in our successes. Chan has reigned in his game and for the most part is doing more of the things he needs to be doing. I fail to see how anything that happened is a stain on Mike. It's not his fault that Felton couldn't grasp the PnR, but he has adjusted to find a better way for Felton to help the team. When Amar'e foolishly crashes into defenders, that's not Mike's fault. You can trust that he's not telling them to do those things.

Also let's set this thing straight, this thread wasn't about praising Mike, but simply identifying the source of the teams problems. It wasn't Mike, but the players. He still knows everything he's always known about the game and the sets we run are the same. However the execution has improved and he's adjusted the way that some guys are approaching how they play. The offense and defense are the same. The players are finally listening and executing better.

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:so it took MDA 2+ years to finally get some of these guys to realize what he wants them to do in this offense & we're 7W-8L... is now the time to be praising his genius? i don't think it is to be honest... yes, he's got new guys to work with, but he's also been working w/some of the other guys for over 2 years... why has it taken this long for those guys to "play the way he wants them to" as you put it?

Do you even listen to yourself. This team started playing better in Denver, so that's 5 games ago. That means your critique of him was based on 10 Games to start the season!!! What the hell are you talking about? TEN New players and you wanna bring up the last 2 years? Is Gallo showing signs of getting what Mike wants him to do or not? TD has had some bad moments, but he's also been pretty instrumental in our successes. Chan has reigned in his game and for the most part is doing more of the things he needs to be doing. I fail to see how anything that happened is a stain on Mike. It's not his fault that Felton couldn't grasp the PnR, but he has adjusted to find a better way for Felton to help the team. When Amar'e foolishly crashes into defenders, that's not Mike's fault. You can trust that he's not telling them to do those things.

Also let's set this thing straight, this thread wasn't about praising Mike, but simply identifying the source of the teams problems. It wasn't Mike, but the players. He still knows everything he's always known about the game and the sets we run are the same. However the execution has improved and he's adjusted the way that some guys are approaching how they play. The offense and defense are the same. The players are finally listening and executing better.

do you even read the posts before you respond to them? i said he's worked with some of these players for 2+ years already & they are just NOW beginning to play the way MDA wants them to play according to you... so is that an indictment strictly on the players or does the coaching have something to do with it? in your eyes it's always on the players, never the coach, whenever something goes wrong, but when something goes right MDA deserves credit for getting the players to play the game the way he wants them to... well no sheit, what kind of NBA coach wants their team to play like crap? wanting someone to play a certain way & GETTING them to play a certain way are 2 different things my friend... yes, the team has played better of late, no one is questioning this fact... the question is will this be just another one of these runs where they revert back to their disorganized play like we've seen over the past 2 years or will this be an ongoing trend... that remains to be seen.

you get extremely emotional anytime we discuss MDA... i have neither bashed him nor praised him in this thread, only raising some concerns & legitimate observations of how this team has played over the past 2 years since he's been the head coach... we are now 7W-8L... i think 15 games is way too early to be jumping the gun on getting excited over this team & have been consistent with that all season... after every game we lose you are nowhere to be seen & yet after every win you come out thumping your chest.

Look Mike has a proven system and style of play and up til recently this team has not been able to grasp it. That's one of the reasons we changed out the roster. In doing that you still have to get everyone on the same page, but the system is the same and the results look about the same here as they have when he was in PHX. The one common denominator is Mike. The players change, but the system is the same and when they execute the results are the same. Thus it's not the coach failing, but the players!!! Also this isn't a fluke that the team is playing better. That's the result of work. This team wasn't perfect to begin with, but as they get acclimated to the system and each other the level of play should start to become more consistent.

Don't talk to me about not being there after losses, cuz you don't know me or what I do. I happen to have been traveling a lot recently that just coincided with the losing streak and that was just a coincidence. I don't have any reason to stay away just cuz the team loses. I've been a fan for the entire run since the last title. It's exciting to see the team finally doing the things we've been looking for them to do. Blocking shots, getting stops, Gallo driving and getting to the line etc. How long have we been calling for these things? The trend has been that the team is now consistently doing these things. It's not to say there won't be setbacks, but they are doing the right things now. It started 10 games into the season so not including the last 2 years which has NOTHING to do with this, it didn't take that long for the team to start coming together. Still a lot of tough games ahead, but the need to play this way to win.

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:so it took MDA 2+ years to finally get some of these guys to realize what he wants them to do in this offense & we're 7W-8L... is now the time to be praising his genius? i don't think it is to be honest... yes, he's got new guys to work with, but he's also been working w/some of the other guys for over 2 years... why has it taken this long for those guys to "play the way he wants them to" as you put it?

Do you even listen to yourself. This team started playing better in Denver, so that's 5 games ago. That means your critique of him was based on 10 Games to start the season!!! What the hell are you talking about? TEN New players and you wanna bring up the last 2 years? Is Gallo showing signs of getting what Mike wants him to do or not? TD has had some bad moments, but he's also been pretty instrumental in our successes. Chan has reigned in his game and for the most part is doing more of the things he needs to be doing. I fail to see how anything that happened is a stain on Mike. It's not his fault that Felton couldn't grasp the PnR, but he has adjusted to find a better way for Felton to help the team. When Amar'e foolishly crashes into defenders, that's not Mike's fault. You can trust that he's not telling them to do those things.

Also let's set this thing straight, this thread wasn't about praising Mike, but simply identifying the source of the teams problems. It wasn't Mike, but the players. He still knows everything he's always known about the game and the sets we run are the same. However the execution has improved and he's adjusted the way that some guys are approaching how they play. The offense and defense are the same. The players are finally listening and executing better.

do you even read the posts before you respond to them? i said he's worked with some of these players for 2+ years already & they are just NOW beginning to play the way MDA wants them to play according to you... so is that an indictment strictly on the players or does the coaching have something to do with it? in your eyes it's always on the players, never the coach, whenever something goes wrong, but when something goes right MDA deserves credit for getting the players to play the game the way he wants them to... well no sheit, what kind of NBA coach wants their team to play like crap? wanting someone to play a certain way & GETTING them to play a certain way are 2 different things my friend... yes, the team has played better of late, no one is questioning this fact... the question is will this be just another one of these runs where they revert back to their disorganized play like we've seen over the past 2 years or will this be an ongoing trend... that remains to be seen.

you get extremely emotional anytime we discuss MDA... i have neither bashed him nor praised him in this thread, only raising some concerns & legitimate observations of how this team has played over the past 2 years since he's been the head coach... we are now 7W-8L... i think 15 games is way too early to be jumping the gun on getting excited over this team & have been consistent with that all season... after every game we lose you are nowhere to be seen & yet after every win you come out thumping your chest.

Young Players can take time to develop. To understand how to get it done on this level and adjust to the talent level. Not every player gets it right away. Fields is a perfect example of how different players can be and it also has to do with their level of development coming in. Guys also get held back by playing with bad players cuz you don't have enough guys playing the RIGHT WAY! That's part of the reason Gallo, Chan and TD's growth was stunted. Not to mention injury has played a part as well.

Look Mike has a proven system and style of play and up til recently this team has not been able to grasp it. That's one of the reasons we changed out the roster. In doing that you still have to get everyone on the same page, but the system is the same and the results look about the same here as they have when he was in PHX. The one common denominator is Mike. The players change, but the system is the same and when they execute the results are the same. Thus it's not the coach failing, but the players!!! Also this isn't a fluke that the team is playing better. That's the result of work. This team wasn't perfect to begin with, but as they get acclimated to the system and each other the level of play should start to become more consistent.

Don't talk to me about not being there after losses, cuz you don't know me or what I do. I happen to have been traveling a lot recently that just coincided with the losing streak and that was just a coincidence. I don't have any reason to stay away just cuz the team loses. I've been a fan for the entire run since the last title. It's exciting to see the team finally doing the things we've been looking for them to do. Blocking shots, getting stops, Gallo driving and getting to the line etc. How long have we been calling for these things? The trend has been that the team is now consistently doing these things. It's not to say there won't be setbacks, but they are doing the right things now. It started 10 games into the season so not including the last 2 years which has NOTHING to do with this, it didn't take that long for the team to start coming together. Still a lot of tough games ahead, but the need to play this way to win.

we have had this exact same conversation for the past 2 years... you telling me this team has finally turned the corner & they're finally starting to play the way MDA wants them to play, & me telling you it's way too early to get excited until we see how they perform over a longer stretch of games... i hope that for once you are finally right.... believe me there's nothing more i would love to see than this Knicks team playing consistently well & cheering for them in the playoffs... it's been a long time since that's happened.

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:so it took MDA 2+ years to finally get some of these guys to realize what he wants them to do in this offense & we're 7W-8L... is now the time to be praising his genius? i don't think it is to be honest... yes, he's got new guys to work with, but he's also been working w/some of the other guys for over 2 years... why has it taken this long for those guys to "play the way he wants them to" as you put it?

Do you even listen to yourself. This team started playing better in Denver, so that's 5 games ago. That means your critique of him was based on 10 Games to start the season!!! What the hell are you talking about? TEN New players and you wanna bring up the last 2 years? Is Gallo showing signs of getting what Mike wants him to do or not? TD has had some bad moments, but he's also been pretty instrumental in our successes. Chan has reigned in his game and for the most part is doing more of the things he needs to be doing. I fail to see how anything that happened is a stain on Mike. It's not his fault that Felton couldn't grasp the PnR, but he has adjusted to find a better way for Felton to help the team. When Amar'e foolishly crashes into defenders, that's not Mike's fault. You can trust that he's not telling them to do those things.

Also let's set this thing straight, this thread wasn't about praising Mike, but simply identifying the source of the teams problems. It wasn't Mike, but the players. He still knows everything he's always known about the game and the sets we run are the same. However the execution has improved and he's adjusted the way that some guys are approaching how they play. The offense and defense are the same. The players are finally listening and executing better.

do you even read the posts before you respond to them? i said he's worked with some of these players for 2+ years already & they are just NOW beginning to play the way MDA wants them to play according to you... so is that an indictment strictly on the players or does the coaching have something to do with it? in your eyes it's always on the players, never the coach, whenever something goes wrong, but when something goes right MDA deserves credit for getting the players to play the game the way he wants them to... well no sheit, what kind of NBA coach wants their team to play like crap? wanting someone to play a certain way & GETTING them to play a certain way are 2 different things my friend... yes, the team has played better of late, no one is questioning this fact... the question is will this be just another one of these runs where they revert back to their disorganized play like we've seen over the past 2 years or will this be an ongoing trend... that remains to be seen.

you get extremely emotional anytime we discuss MDA... i have neither bashed him nor praised him in this thread, only raising some concerns & legitimate observations of how this team has played over the past 2 years since he's been the head coach... we are now 7W-8L... i think 15 games is way too early to be jumping the gun on getting excited over this team & have been consistent with that all season... after every game we lose you are nowhere to be seen & yet after every win you come out thumping your chest.

Young Players can take time to develop. To understand how to get it done on this level and adjust to the talent level. Not every player gets it right away. Fields is a perfect example of how different players can be and it also has to do with their level of development coming in. Guys also get held back by playing with bad players cuz you don't have enough guys playing the RIGHT WAY! That's part of the reason Gallo, Chan and TD's growth was stunted. Not to mention injury has played a part as well.

Look Mike has a proven system and style of play and up til recently this team has not been able to grasp it. That's one of the reasons we changed out the roster. In doing that you still have to get everyone on the same page, but the system is the same and the results look about the same here as they have when he was in PHX. The one common denominator is Mike. The players change, but the system is the same and when they execute the results are the same. Thus it's not the coach failing, but the players!!! Also this isn't a fluke that the team is playing better. That's the result of work. This team wasn't perfect to begin with, but as they get acclimated to the system and each other the level of play should start to become more consistent.

Don't talk to me about not being there after losses, cuz you don't know me or what I do. I happen to have been traveling a lot recently that just coincided with the losing streak and that was just a coincidence. I don't have any reason to stay away just cuz the team loses. I've been a fan for the entire run since the last title. It's exciting to see the team finally doing the things we've been looking for them to do. Blocking shots, getting stops, Gallo driving and getting to the line etc. How long have we been calling for these things? The trend has been that the team is now consistently doing these things. It's not to say there won't be setbacks, but they are doing the right things now. It started 10 games into the season so not including the last 2 years which has NOTHING to do with this, it didn't take that long for the team to start coming together. Still a lot of tough games ahead, but the need to play this way to win.

we have had this exact same conversation for the past 2 years... you telling me this team has finally turned the corner & they're finally starting to play the way MDA wants them to play, & me telling you it's way too early to get excited until we see how they perform over a longer stretch of games... i hope that for once you are finally right.... believe me there's nothing more i would love to see than this Knicks team playing consistently well & cheering for them in the playoffs... it's been a long time since that's happened.

You keep bringing up the last few years when that's irrelevant to the conversation. This year has nothing to do with the last 2. The goals were different and so are the expectations. This is a new situation, so let's judge this on it's own merits. I don't care about past years convos between us and this team. Was Felton here, Amar'e, Turiaf? NO! So let's keep this on topic. After 10 games, we're seeing some growth and it was starting to happen before the winning happened. It's a process and yeah it's early, but you've got eyes. You can see that there's more of an understanding of what they need to do. You either execute properly or you don't. Could the team lose focus and slip back? Of Course! But I'm not betting on that. This is what they practice, so it's not an accident or fluke. There's clear intent and purpose in what the team is doing.

right now i'm giving it 50/50 odds that we have this same conversation next year.

It's clear you don't think much of D'Antoni as a coach or else you wouldn't be predicting that we'll be repeating this argument next year.
We all know it's not a perfect team. We didn't land Lebron, so that means we have to build this thing and so far i'm not that disappointed. Most of us said that it would be a bit rough in the beginning due to the team getting acclimated. Both the Coach and the players needed time to learn each other. IMO this team was underachieving ,cuz we lost games we shouldn't have lost. Mike is no different than LB or Lenny Wilkins. They didn't suddenly forget everything they know about basketball the last 2 years. As soon as you give them some players that have talent, but WILL LISTEN, they look a lot better as coaches. This is why i'm saying that Mike isn't our problem. It always starts with the players. Get the right players and you can win. Get good players and a good coach and you should eventually play good ball. That's what Popovich, Sloan, Phil Jax and any other winning coach needs. That's what I expect to happen.

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:so it took MDA 2+ years to finally get some of these guys to realize what he wants them to do in this offense & we're 7W-8L... is now the time to be praising his genius? i don't think it is to be honest... yes, he's got new guys to work with, but he's also been working w/some of the other guys for over 2 years... why has it taken this long for those guys to "play the way he wants them to" as you put it?

Do you even listen to yourself. This team started playing better in Denver, so that's 5 games ago. That means your critique of him was based on 10 Games to start the season!!! What the hell are you talking about? TEN New players and you wanna bring up the last 2 years? Is Gallo showing signs of getting what Mike wants him to do or not? TD has had some bad moments, but he's also been pretty instrumental in our successes. Chan has reigned in his game and for the most part is doing more of the things he needs to be doing. I fail to see how anything that happened is a stain on Mike. It's not his fault that Felton couldn't grasp the PnR, but he has adjusted to find a better way for Felton to help the team. When Amar'e foolishly crashes into defenders, that's not Mike's fault. You can trust that he's not telling them to do those things.

Also let's set this thing straight, this thread wasn't about praising Mike, but simply identifying the source of the teams problems. It wasn't Mike, but the players. He still knows everything he's always known about the game and the sets we run are the same. However the execution has improved and he's adjusted the way that some guys are approaching how they play. The offense and defense are the same. The players are finally listening and executing better.

do you even read the posts before you respond to them? i said he's worked with some of these players for 2+ years already & they are just NOW beginning to play the way MDA wants them to play according to you... so is that an indictment strictly on the players or does the coaching have something to do with it? in your eyes it's always on the players, never the coach, whenever something goes wrong, but when something goes right MDA deserves credit for getting the players to play the game the way he wants them to... well no sheit, what kind of NBA coach wants their team to play like crap? wanting someone to play a certain way & GETTING them to play a certain way are 2 different things my friend... yes, the team has played better of late, no one is questioning this fact... the question is will this be just another one of these runs where they revert back to their disorganized play like we've seen over the past 2 years or will this be an ongoing trend... that remains to be seen.

you get extremely emotional anytime we discuss MDA... i have neither bashed him nor praised him in this thread, only raising some concerns & legitimate observations of how this team has played over the past 2 years since he's been the head coach... we are now 7W-8L... i think 15 games is way too early to be jumping the gun on getting excited over this team & have been consistent with that all season... after every game we lose you are nowhere to be seen & yet after every win you come out thumping your chest.

Young Players can take time to develop. To understand how to get it done on this level and adjust to the talent level. Not every player gets it right away. Fields is a perfect example of how different players can be and it also has to do with their level of development coming in. Guys also get held back by playing with bad players cuz you don't have enough guys playing the RIGHT WAY! That's part of the reason Gallo, Chan and TD's growth was stunted. Not to mention injury has played a part as well.

Look Mike has a proven system and style of play and up til recently this team has not been able to grasp it. That's one of the reasons we changed out the roster. In doing that you still have to get everyone on the same page, but the system is the same and the results look about the same here as they have when he was in PHX. The one common denominator is Mike. The players change, but the system is the same and when they execute the results are the same. Thus it's not the coach failing, but the players!!! Also this isn't a fluke that the team is playing better. That's the result of work. This team wasn't perfect to begin with, but as they get acclimated to the system and each other the level of play should start to become more consistent.

Don't talk to me about not being there after losses, cuz you don't know me or what I do. I happen to have been traveling a lot recently that just coincided with the losing streak and that was just a coincidence. I don't have any reason to stay away just cuz the team loses. I've been a fan for the entire run since the last title. It's exciting to see the team finally doing the things we've been looking for them to do. Blocking shots, getting stops, Gallo driving and getting to the line etc. How long have we been calling for these things? The trend has been that the team is now consistently doing these things. It's not to say there won't be setbacks, but they are doing the right things now. It started 10 games into the season so not including the last 2 years which has NOTHING to do with this, it didn't take that long for the team to start coming together. Still a lot of tough games ahead, but the need to play this way to win.

we have had this exact same conversation for the past 2 years... you telling me this team has finally turned the corner & they're finally starting to play the way MDA wants them to play, & me telling you it's way too early to get excited until we see how they perform over a longer stretch of games... i hope that for once you are finally right.... believe me there's nothing more i would love to see than this Knicks team playing consistently well & cheering for them in the playoffs... it's been a long time since that's happened.

You keep bringing up the last few years when that's irrelevant to the conversation. This year has nothing to do with the last 2. The goals were different and so are the expectations. This is a new situation, so let's judge this on it's own merits. I don't care about past years convos between us and this team. Was Felton here, Amar'e, Turiaf? NO! So let's keep this on topic. After 10 games, we're seeing some growth and it was starting to happen before the winning happened. It's a process and yeah it's early, but you've got eyes. You can see that there's more of an understanding of what they need to do. You either execute properly or you don't. Could the team lose focus and slip back? Of Course! But I'm not betting on that. This is what they practice, so it's not an accident or fluke. There's clear intent and purpose in what the team is doing.

right now i'm giving it 50/50 odds that we have this same conversation next year.

It's clear you don't think much of D'Antoni as a coach or else you wouldn't be predicting that we'll be repeating this argument next year.
We all know it's not a perfect team. We didn't land Lebron, so that means we have to build this thing and so far i'm not that disappointed. Most of us said that it would be a bit rough in the beginning due to the team getting acclimated. Both the Coach and the players needed time to learn each other. IMO this team was underachieving ,cuz we lost games we shouldn't have lost. Mike is no different than LB or Lenny Wilkins. They didn't suddenly forget everything they know about basketball the last 2 years. As soon as you give them some players that have talent, but WILL LISTEN, they look a lot better as coaches. This is why i'm saying that Mike isn't our problem. It always starts with the players. Get the right players and you can win. Get good players and a good coach and you should eventually play good ball. That's what Popovich, Sloan, Phil Jax and any other winning coach needs. That's what I expect to happen.

i said i'm giving it 50/50 odds, which means it could go either way... it's clear you THINK i have some preconceived hatred towards MDA but i actually just haven't seen any reason for me to be as confident in his ability to coach this team to success w/o Steve Nash running his system the way you are... i am not a big fan of his SSOL system, that's no secret... i would prefer a coach who put much more of an emphasis on defense because historically teams that win championships typically do.

every coach needs good players to win, that goes without saying, but the truly great coaches can adapt to their players & get them to win despite not having the specific players they reached past success with... i'm waiting for MDA to prove to me he can do this before i jump on his bandwagon.