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Building this team correctly
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Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
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USA
11/17/2010  12:42 AM
No 100 mil contracts on good but flawed players. Build with LOTS of draft picks and small FA signings. You'll either get a franchise player with some luck in those draft picks and signings or become good enough gradually to eventually be able to attract a legit franchise player.
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martin
Posts: 76287
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USA
11/17/2010  12:45 AM
TMS wrote:
martin wrote:2) "I've never seen a team with D'Antoni's philosophy advance to the finals." - Showtime Lakers.

now all that's left to do is for Magic, Kareem & Worthy to get here & we'll be in great shape.

True. Any system needs great players to win championships. One can also say that Phil Jackson's system doesn't win Championships without the very best player in the league paired with another high level all star and perhaps a 3rd all star.

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crzymdups
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USA
11/17/2010  1:42 AM
Knixkik wrote:

Coaches can help you win championships, but this is the NBA, lets be realistic. No coach makes up that much of a difference. Saying the difference between JVG and MDA is 10-15 games is absolutely absurd. Maybe 2-3 games at the most if you like him more as a coach.

I think that's crazy talk. Coaches make a difference. a good coach has us 3-4 more wins 11 games into the season.

¿ △ ?
knickstorrents
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Hong Kong
11/17/2010  2:51 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:No 100 mil contracts on good but flawed players. Build with LOTS of draft picks and small FA signings. You'll either get a franchise player with some luck in those draft picks and signings or become good enough gradually to eventually be able to attract a legit franchise player.

+1. There's no shortcuts in this world, NBA included.

Rose is not the answer.
misterearl
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USA
11/17/2010  10:10 AM
knickstorrents wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:No 100 mil contracts on good but flawed players. Build with LOTS of draft picks and small FA signings. You'll either get a franchise player with some luck in those draft picks and signings or become good enough gradually to eventually be able to attract a legit franchise player.

+1. There's no shortcuts in this world, NBA included.

For this, and other reasons, Carmelo Anthony is exactly NOT what the Knicks need.

The Knicks need a facilitator and a leader to manage the court. Minimum height 6'4. Someone who can direct players without hesitation and make crisp decisions on the fly. They need the person who can create and make his shot as a last resort, after the first three options are not available.

once a knick always a knick
TMS
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11/17/2010  10:34 AM
this team is built to run a fastbreak style game with penetrators & slashers running on the wings, not a 3 pt shot or bust style game... we don't have the shooters or the distributors to win consistently playing that style of basketball... last night they went to more of the fastbreak style offense to make their comeback vs. the Nuggets... that's how they need to be playing w/the players they have on this roster... none of this ridiculous dribble the ball up the floor & shoot a 3 crap we've been seeing for the past 2+ years.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
GodSaveTheKnicks
Posts: 23952
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USA
11/17/2010  11:20 AM
crzymdups wrote:
martin wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
martin wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
problem is that they play at such a high pace that it gives the opposing team extra chances to get back in the game or build on leads. Playing at a fast pace, the knicks offense has to be extremely efficient in order to build leads and keep them.

The offense right now does not play to our players strengths.

My problem isn't the pace, if anything I think they are playing too slow, its the shot selection that bothers me. Also, the lack of an inside game, and the lack of adjustments.

i agree that the lack of adjustments is painful to watch. how do you watch kevin love grab 15 rebounds in the 3rd quarter and not GLUE a guy to him on defense (paging AR). how do you keep forcing a pick and roll that isn't there. how do you keep jacking contested three point shots? is that really the best shot we can get?

we have two guys who thrive at getting to the line in gallo and amare. we have a PG who thrived in the halfcourt set for Larry Brown. maybe this is actually a half court team? not a running one? playing a slower more considered offense that got BETTER shots for our guys would make our improved defense stand out more.

yikes I wouldn't go that far. He didn't really thrive.

okay, maybe that's an exaggeration.

yeah, i think ray is the big problem right now. he just can't do what d'antoni needs him to do. i think he's gone as soon as they can move him on 12/15.

you think they will move him? for the likes of whom? Maybe Billups cause he is on a 2 year deal, but there is no way Ray gets traded for a PG whose contract goes beyond 2 years (CP3, Williams).

i think they might try to get a guy like Ridnour or TJ Ford... anyone who can run the PnR.

i think that will be the first thing D'Antoni requests if the losing continues and he hits the hot seat.

can they really afford to play this "we're waiting two years for our guy" game when they got so badly burned on the lebron deal?

d'antoni's deal is over by the time CP3 and Deron are free agents. walsh's is over, too. i don't think either guy can afford to wait that long.

Ridnour woulda been a much better fit here than Felton although his D is suspect. he runs the PNR much better and is not terrible from outside

Let's try to elevate the level of discourse in this byeetch. Please
FistOfOakley
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11/17/2010  2:11 PM
Felton is really not to blame here. You guys are asking for playmaking pg's and while there are some, there aren't that many that are classified as available. Guys like Ridnour or whoever are not the answer.

This is what Felton was avg'ing in Charlotte last yr:
33mpg
45.9% fg
38.5% 3pt
12.8ppg
7.7 ast
2.1 TO


This is what Felton is avg'ing right now:

35mpg
44% fg
38.3% 3pt
15.8 ppg
7.7 ast
3.2 TO

For the most part, you guys are asking for a miracle worker when he is right around where he was last year as a Bobcat. He is what he is but just like everyone on the team they can play at least a little better.

TMS
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11/17/2010  3:14 PM
i'd be fine with Felton if we were running a different style... an open court, fast break style offense that stresses penetration & slashing to the hole is ideal for Ray Felton's skillset, not one that has 3 guys floating behind the 3 pt line launching up 3 pointers on every other possession.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
GodSaveTheKnicks
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USA
11/17/2010  3:30 PM
TMS wrote:i'd be fine with Felton if we were running a different style... an open court, fast break style offense that stresses penetration & slashing to the hole is ideal for Ray Felton's skillset, not one that has 3 guys floating behind the 3 pt line launching up 3 pointers on every other possession.

MDA's system NEEDs guys who can hit 3s to work.

Outside of Gallo (who is shooting horribly for whatever reason), we don't really have anyone that hits that shot with regularity. We're 26th out of 30 teams in 3 pt%age. But we're 2nd in 3 points attempted.

Options

- MDA adjusts his system to reflect his players

- The Knicks adjust their coach to fit their players

- The Knicks practice shooting 3s like crazy and somehow get better

- We keep taking 3s and bricking them. Losing ensues.


Which of these is the best option?
Which of these is the most likely?

Let's try to elevate the level of discourse in this byeetch. Please
TMS
Posts: 60684
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USA
11/17/2010  3:42 PM
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:
TMS wrote:i'd be fine with Felton if we were running a different style... an open court, fast break style offense that stresses penetration & slashing to the hole is ideal for Ray Felton's skillset, not one that has 3 guys floating behind the 3 pt line launching up 3 pointers on every other possession.

MDA's system NEEDs guys who can hit 3s to work.

Outside of Gallo (who is shooting horribly for whatever reason), we don't really have anyone that hits that shot with regularity. We're 26th out of 30 teams in 3 pt%age. But we're 2nd in 3 points attempted.

Options

- MDA adjusts his system to reflect his players

- The Knicks adjust their coach to fit their players

- The Knicks practice shooting 3s like crazy and somehow get better

- We keep taking 3s and bricking them. Losing ensues.


Which of these is the best option?
Which of these is the most likely?

i agree, MDA's system needs 3 point shooters... he believes implicitly in his system & he will never go away from his bread & butter, which is the 3 pt shot... because of that, option 2 on your list seems to be the most logical solution... it's going to be a lot harder to totally revamp the roster at this stage in the game.

as for which is most likely, i'm going with option 4.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
scoshin
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11/17/2010  3:53 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/17/2010  3:53 PM
If we get Carmelo, I think we should really look into hiring Brian Shaw and implement the triangle offense in NY. Felton imo would be a pretty ideal PG for the triangle. Can hit the outside shot, penetrate if needed or run the break if the opportunity arises...but most importantly, not be relied upon as a playmaker in the half-court set. Amare would also have to work on a back-to-the-basket game, for the triangle to work. But watching him, I feel like he has the skillset to play in the post if he really put his mind to it. Plus, we wouldn't have to worry about knee injuries as much when he's not constantly penetrating on 90% of his possessions. I also think his court vision is underrated. He's made some good passes in these past 11 games, but only when stationary. He can't seem to pass when on the drive though, but it's easier to see the court or see the double coming early when posting up.
Building this team correctly

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