Felton is a good player, but a terrible point guard. He never seems to drop the ball off in the right place and often gives it up too early for the player to benefit. Duhon would have been the better point guard for this team and I can't believe I am saying that. The guy just can't make the easy pass on the pick and roll. He seems to try to make the pass even when it's not there.

That being said our coach really needs to get it together and do it quickly.

NYKBocker wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:Felton has been a lot like Douglas IMO.

How many open jumpers did we see the Knicks take yesterday? How many times was the ball kicked out for an open jumper after penetration and a kick out?

I'm coming around to the opinion, which many on UK have reached, that MDA has to make adjustments based on the team he has, and not force-fit them into his system.

We don't have the PGs or enough jump shooters to make MDA's system work, and we have a number of people who continue to make bad decisions with the ball. That stretch in the 4th period was arguably the worst offensive showing we have seen by the Knicks under MDA, and other than Fields and Gallinari, and some others, to a lesser extent, I did not see much effort on D.

I like Felton, but he does not seem to be the guy to handle this offense, and as the topic heading hints- he is not making the guys around him better.

I continue to see Fields and Gallo cutting to the basket and not getting the ball when they are open. Why should they continue to do this if they are rarely going to get the ball?

As for our other PG, I believe that Dounglas may have an injury affecting his shot. He has had continuous problems the last few games, and given his work ethic, I think that there is something wrong with him physically. If there is, he should not be playing.

Very painful to watch.

The two biggest culprits launching outside were Felton and TD. TD took some really ill advised shots and Felton doesn't seem to be able to see his own players under the rim.

The problem with the prevalent opinion in the UK is this:

1. This year we have given MDA a talented team built for his style of play and he has no more excuses.
2. We don't have the PGs or enough jump shooters to make MDA's system work, and we have a number of people who continue to make bad decisions with the ball.

The same people keep saying both of the above or variations of them all over the place. Do you see a contradiction here?

I was a little hesitant in the beginning of the season as I am not very familiar with Felton. I thought TD would be better than this. We really need a pass first PG. Felton is more of a attack the rim type in the Dinglebury mold in that he wants to get his first. The only way Felton will be effective in this system is during the transition game. He should push the ball all the time when he is in. This is the strength of his game. He does not have the halfcourt skills needed for this system. Push the ball all the time then when we are in our halfcourt set, defer to Gallo as the point forward and let him create with Amare. Everytime Gallo had the ball and he drives to the basket good things happen.

Yes I had great expectations of Felton as well. What I don't get is how people can say we now have a team built for MDA and he has no excuses and then turn around and say our PG can't run the PnR and out shooters can't shoot. How is that supposed to be an MDA team?

loweyecue wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:Felton has been a lot like Douglas IMO.

How many open jumpers did we see the Knicks take yesterday? How many times was the ball kicked out for an open jumper after penetration and a kick out?

I'm coming around to the opinion, which many on UK have reached, that MDA has to make adjustments based on the team he has, and not force-fit them into his system.

We don't have the PGs or enough jump shooters to make MDA's system work, and we have a number of people who continue to make bad decisions with the ball. That stretch in the 4th period was arguably the worst offensive showing we have seen by the Knicks under MDA, and other than Fields and Gallinari, and some others, to a lesser extent, I did not see much effort on D.

I like Felton, but he does not seem to be the guy to handle this offense, and as the topic heading hints- he is not making the guys around him better.

I continue to see Fields and Gallo cutting to the basket and not getting the ball when they are open. Why should they continue to do this if they are rarely going to get the ball?

As for our other PG, I believe that Dounglas may have an injury affecting his shot. He has had continuous problems the last few games, and given his work ethic, I think that there is something wrong with him physically. If there is, he should not be playing.

Very painful to watch.

The two biggest culprits launching outside were Felton and TD. TD took some really ill advised shots and Felton doesn't seem to be able to see his own players under the rim.

The problem with the prevalent opinion in the UK is this:

1. This year we have given MDA a talented team built for his style of play and he has no more excuses.
2. We don't have the PGs or enough jump shooters to make MDA's system work, and we have a number of people who continue to make bad decisions with the ball.

The same people keep saying both of the above or variations of them all over the place. Do you see a contradiction here?

When you looked at the team before the season started- it looked like they had more shooters. Azubuike, Mason, Rautins, along with Douglas and Gallo seemed like enough guys who could shoot from distance. Obviously things have not gone well because of injuries, poor performances, etc..

There were also folks who thought that Felton was not the ideal PG for the sytem. I have to be honest and say that I did not know enough about his game to make an informed judgments on how he would fit this system. I was someone who thought we had enough on the roster to do well, even though I did not know exactly how certain players would perform, or that Azubuike's injury was this bad, or Mason's game had gone down this much.

The funny things is that Felton's shot was suspect, and to me, that has been the biggest surprise in his game- he's shooting 3s at 37%, which is not bad. Yet a guy with a history of not turning the ball over is approaching a TO/game# that is almost 1 TO/game higher than his career average!

1.) Felton is horrible at running the Pnr. If I were Amare or Timofey I would have blown a gasket by now. These guys are open, and he simply can't get them the ball. It's maddening. Timo should have an alley-oop a game. T

2.) I've never seen a PG lose his concentration as many times as he does. He'll be playing great and then just have 3 or 4 possessions in a row where he will dribble off his foot, have a couple entry passes tipped, take a contested outside shot with 20 seconds on the clock.

3.) For a PG he has very poor shot selection. He doesn't seem to understand momentum. Sometimes that contested three with 24 seconds left is a good shot. Sometimes you take it and you make it and you can really grab a hold of a game. Usually in those situations though, the air isn't let out of the building if you miss. Felton instead takes the three when the other team is making a run or when we have fallen apart. Unfortunately in those situations if you make it, it usually doesn't have much effect on momentum and if you miss it, it's a killer. Chandler does this a lot as well.

4.) Great at running the break. Too bad we don't have dominant rebounders that can get us out on the break

5.) pick and roll again. Most PG's come out of the womb being able to run the pick and roll. Some obviously are better then others, but I've never seen one as incompetent as he is. These guys are so open it's maddening. He also settles for the jumper too much instead of penetrating off the pick and roll, causing others to collapse and then kicking it out to an open shooter.

Bippity10 wrote:My takes on Felton:

1.) Felton is horrible at running the Pnr. If I were Amare or Timofey I would have blown a gasket by now. These guys are open, and he simply can't get them the ball. It's maddening. Timo should have an alley-oop a game. T

2.) I've never seen a PG lose his concentration as many times as he does. He'll be playing great and then just have 3 or 4 possessions in a row where he will dribble off his foot, have a couple entry passes tipped, take a contested outside shot with 20 seconds on the clock.

3.) For a PG he has very poor shot selection. He doesn't seem to understand momentum. Sometimes that contested three with 24 seconds left is a good shot. Sometimes you take it and you make it and you can really grab a hold of a game. Usually in those situations though, the air isn't let out of the building if you miss. Felton instead takes the three when the other team is making a run or when we have fallen apart. Unfortunately in those situations if you make it, it usually doesn't have much effect on momentum and if you miss it, it's a killer. Chandler does this a lot as well.

4.) Great at running the break. Too bad we don't have dominant rebounders that can get us out on the break

5.) pick and roll again. Most PG's come out of the womb being able to run the pick and roll. Some obviously are better then others, but I've never seen one as incompetent as he is. These guys are so open it's maddening. He also settles for the jumper too much instead of penetrating off the pick and roll, causing others to collapse and then kicking it out to an open shooter.

100% agree

loweyecue wrote:Paladin, I think your posting is far more balanced but the board in general seems to have formed the opinion that we built this team in 2010 for MDA style of play and then the board also thinks this team cannot play MDA ball and MDA needs to make adjustments, so they contradict themselves quite often. I find it irritating at times to read these long rants about how MDA doesn't do this doesn't do that from people who have know firsthand knowledge of what actually is happening during practice and in the locker room.

I posted somewhere yesterday that the Rockets took more 3s than we did so is the Houston offense also based on outside shooting only? We missed dozens of easy layups and our offense faltered because Amare couldn't find open players in the paint when he was too busy trying to dribble past three people with his head down. But reading this board you would think they just stood there and shot three pointers every time they touched the ball. Gallo gets burned here for not taking it to the hoop and yet he seemed to do it more often than not, he also had several cuts to the basket where no one was able to get the ball to him.

People here seem to simply form an opinion then keep regurgitating it over and over again regardless of what is happening, and everything that does happen is instantly spun to conform to whatever theory they seem to have.

Welcome to ultimate Knicks. Are you new?

loweyecue wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:Felton has been a lot like Douglas IMO.

How many open jumpers did we see the Knicks take yesterday? How many times was the ball kicked out for an open jumper after penetration and a kick out?

I'm coming around to the opinion, which many on UK have reached, that MDA has to make adjustments based on the team he has, and not force-fit them into his system.

We don't have the PGs or enough jump shooters to make MDA's system work, and we have a number of people who continue to make bad decisions with the ball. That stretch in the 4th period was arguably the worst offensive showing we have seen by the Knicks under MDA, and other than Fields and Gallinari, and some others, to a lesser extent, I did not see much effort on D.

I like Felton, but he does not seem to be the guy to handle this offense, and as the topic heading hints- he is not making the guys around him better.

I continue to see Fields and Gallo cutting to the basket and not getting the ball when they are open. Why should they continue to do this if they are rarely going to get the ball?

As for our other PG, I believe that Dounglas may have an injury affecting his shot. He has had continuous problems the last few games, and given his work ethic, I think that there is something wrong with him physically. If there is, he should not be playing.

Very painful to watch.

The two biggest culprits launching outside were Felton and TD. TD took some really ill advised shots and Felton doesn't seem to be able to see his own players under the rim.

The problem with the prevalent opinion in the UK is this:

1. This year we have given MDA a talented team built for his style of play and he has no more excuses.
2. We don't have the PGs or enough jump shooters to make MDA's system work, and we have a number of people who continue to make bad decisions with the ball.

The same people keep saying both of the above or variations of them all over the place. Do you see a contradiction here?

I was a little hesitant in the beginning of the season as I am not very familiar with Felton. I thought TD would be better than this. We really need a pass first PG. Felton is more of a attack the rim type in the Dinglebury mold in that he wants to get his first. The only way Felton will be effective in this system is during the transition game. He should push the ball all the time when he is in. This is the strength of his game. He does not have the halfcourt skills needed for this system. Push the ball all the time then when we are in our halfcourt set, defer to Gallo as the point forward and let him create with Amare. Everytime Gallo had the ball and he drives to the basket good things happen.

Yes I had great expectations of Felton as well. What I don't get is how people can say we now have a team built for MDA and he has no excuses and then turn around and say our PG can't run the PnR and out shooters can't shoot. How is that supposed to be an MDA team?

it's pretty simple... MDA has had the past 2 years to evaluate & assess which players he wanted to get rid of, which players he wanted to keep & which players he wanted to add to this roster... this summer DW went out & signed Amare Stoudamire because he was the guy that had previous success playing in MDA's system... DW & MDA have maintained all along that they are committed to each other in their roster & personnel decisions, which means MDA has a say in who DW targets... if MDA didn't want Ray Felton to be the PG to run this system, do u think DW would have signed him to begin with? do you think we go after guys like Roger Mason Jr. in free agency if MDA isn't on board w/it? i don't... go ahead & tell me how MDA can get a pass if he doesn't get this team to win at least 41 games this season in your eyes... don't tell me he doesn't have the talent to at least be .500 on this team... being .500 & being successful are 2 different things we're talking about.

when i say he can't be successful w/o a MVP calibre PG, it's based on what i've seen from this team & based on MDA's own past history... when has he ever been successful in the NBA w/his system without Steve Nash?

TMS wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:Felton has been a lot like Douglas IMO.

How many open jumpers did we see the Knicks take yesterday? How many times was the ball kicked out for an open jumper after penetration and a kick out?

I'm coming around to the opinion, which many on UK have reached, that MDA has to make adjustments based on the team he has, and not force-fit them into his system.

We don't have the PGs or enough jump shooters to make MDA's system work, and we have a number of people who continue to make bad decisions with the ball. That stretch in the 4th period was arguably the worst offensive showing we have seen by the Knicks under MDA, and other than Fields and Gallinari, and some others, to a lesser extent, I did not see much effort on D.

I like Felton, but he does not seem to be the guy to handle this offense, and as the topic heading hints- he is not making the guys around him better.

I continue to see Fields and Gallo cutting to the basket and not getting the ball when they are open. Why should they continue to do this if they are rarely going to get the ball?

As for our other PG, I believe that Dounglas may have an injury affecting his shot. He has had continuous problems the last few games, and given his work ethic, I think that there is something wrong with him physically. If there is, he should not be playing.

Very painful to watch.

The two biggest culprits launching outside were Felton and TD. TD took some really ill advised shots and Felton doesn't seem to be able to see his own players under the rim.

The problem with the prevalent opinion in the UK is this:

1. This year we have given MDA a talented team built for his style of play and he has no more excuses.
2. We don't have the PGs or enough jump shooters to make MDA's system work, and we have a number of people who continue to make bad decisions with the ball.

The same people keep saying both of the above or variations of them all over the place. Do you see a contradiction here?

I was a little hesitant in the beginning of the season as I am not very familiar with Felton. I thought TD would be better than this. We really need a pass first PG. Felton is more of a attack the rim type in the Dinglebury mold in that he wants to get his first. The only way Felton will be effective in this system is during the transition game. He should push the ball all the time when he is in. This is the strength of his game. He does not have the halfcourt skills needed for this system. Push the ball all the time then when we are in our halfcourt set, defer to Gallo as the point forward and let him create with Amare. Everytime Gallo had the ball and he drives to the basket good things happen.

Yes I had great expectations of Felton as well. What I don't get is how people can say we now have a team built for MDA and he has no excuses and then turn around and say our PG can't run the PnR and out shooters can't shoot. How is that supposed to be an MDA team?

it's pretty simple... MDA has had the past 2 years to evaluate & assess which players he wanted to get rid of, which players he wanted to keep & which players he wanted to add to this roster... this summer DW went out & signed Amare Stoudamire because he was the guy that had previous success playing in MDA's system... DW & MDA have maintained all along that they are committed to each other in their roster & personnel decisions, which means MDA has a say in who DW targets... if MDA didn't want Ray Felton to be the PG to run this system, do u think DW would have signed him to begin with? do you think we go after guys like Roger Mason Jr. in free agency if MDA isn't on board w/it? i don't... go ahead & tell me how MDA can get a pass if he doesn't get this team to win at least 41 games this season in your eyes... don't tell me he doesn't have the talent to at least be .500 on this team... being .500 & being successful are 2 different things we're talking about.

when i say he can't be successful w/o a MVP calibre PG, it's based on what i've seen from this team & based on MDA's own past history... when has he ever been successful in the NBA w/his system without Steve Nash?

I dont didagree about MDA being on board with the Felt pickup, but it was the pick of the litter. its not like they turned down an allstar for Felt. He was the best FA pg available at the time. However, they only signed him for 2 yrs which tells me that not only is he a rental, but Walsh and MDA plan on being here for a while, at least until they get it right.

loweyecue wrote:

TMS wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:Felton has been a lot like Douglas IMO.

How many open jumpers did we see the Knicks take yesterday? How many times was the ball kicked out for an open jumper after penetration and a kick out?

I'm coming around to the opinion, which many on UK have reached, that MDA has to make adjustments based on the team he has, and not force-fit them into his system.

We don't have the PGs or enough jump shooters to make MDA's system work, and we have a number of people who continue to make bad decisions with the ball. That stretch in the 4th period was arguably the worst offensive showing we have seen by the Knicks under MDA, and other than Fields and Gallinari, and some others, to a lesser extent, I did not see much effort on D.

I like Felton, but he does not seem to be the guy to handle this offense, and as the topic heading hints- he is not making the guys around him better.

I continue to see Fields and Gallo cutting to the basket and not getting the ball when they are open. Why should they continue to do this if they are rarely going to get the ball?

As for our other PG, I believe that Dounglas may have an injury affecting his shot. He has had continuous problems the last few games, and given his work ethic, I think that there is something wrong with him physically. If there is, he should not be playing.

Very painful to watch.

The two biggest culprits launching outside were Felton and TD. TD took some really ill advised shots and Felton doesn't seem to be able to see his own players under the rim.

The problem with the prevalent opinion in the UK is this:

1. This year we have given MDA a talented team built for his style of play and he has no more excuses.
2. We don't have the PGs or enough jump shooters to make MDA's system work, and we have a number of people who continue to make bad decisions with the ball.

The same people keep saying both of the above or variations of them all over the place. Do you see a contradiction here?

I was a little hesitant in the beginning of the season as I am not very familiar with Felton. I thought TD would be better than this. We really need a pass first PG. Felton is more of a attack the rim type in the Dinglebury mold in that he wants to get his first. The only way Felton will be effective in this system is during the transition game. He should push the ball all the time when he is in. This is the strength of his game. He does not have the halfcourt skills needed for this system. Push the ball all the time then when we are in our halfcourt set, defer to Gallo as the point forward and let him create with Amare. Everytime Gallo had the ball and he drives to the basket good things happen.

Yes I had great expectations of Felton as well. What I don't get is how people can say we now have a team built for MDA and he has no excuses and then turn around and say our PG can't run the PnR and out shooters can't shoot. How is that supposed to be an MDA team?

it's pretty simple... MDA has had the past 2 years to evaluate & assess which players he wanted to get rid of, which players he wanted to keep & which players he wanted to add to this roster... this summer DW went out & signed Amare Stoudamire because he was the guy that had previous success playing in MDA's system... DW & MDA have maintained all along that they are committed to each other in their roster & personnel decisions, which means MDA has a say in who DW targets... if MDA didn't want Ray Felton to be the PG to run this system, do u think DW would have signed him to begin with? do you think we go after guys like Roger Mason Jr. in free agency if MDA isn't on board w/it? i don't... go ahead & tell me how MDA can get a pass if he doesn't get this team to win at least 41 games this season in your eyes... don't tell me he doesn't have the talent to at least be .500 on this team... being .500 & being successful are 2 different things we're talking about.

when i say he can't be successful w/o a MVP calibre PG, it's based on what i've seen from this team & based on MDA's own past history... when has he ever been successful in the NBA w/his system without Steve Nash?

I am not asking you to give him a pass nor am I giving him one myself. I am just calling out the contradiction in what is being said. Just because he may have input on personnel decisions doesn't mean he gets what he wants - it looks like you made that conclusion on your own. Also picking Felton was a no-brainer because there was no one else. Do I think DW would override what MDA asks for when making the decision to hire someone yes I absolutely think he would.

As to your line of reasoning would you then agree that PJax never would succeed w/o the best player in the league playing for him and when he came up empty w/o shaq he should have given up coaching the triangle offense? Because I don't think he would ever do that, not that it matters but its the same line of reasoning. MDA created a powerhouse team in the west and gave the best in business a run for their money. That is why he is the coach. Asking him to change his system is the same as asking PJax to abandon the triangle or Bill Parcells to be sweet to his players. These people have their own styles and its their conviction in those styles that make they who they are. When you bring them on board you should know exactly what to expect.

loweyecue wrote:

TMS wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:Felton has been a lot like Douglas IMO.

How many open jumpers did we see the Knicks take yesterday? How many times was the ball kicked out for an open jumper after penetration and a kick out?

I'm coming around to the opinion, which many on UK have reached, that MDA has to make adjustments based on the team he has, and not force-fit them into his system.

We don't have the PGs or enough jump shooters to make MDA's system work, and we have a number of people who continue to make bad decisions with the ball. That stretch in the 4th period was arguably the worst offensive showing we have seen by the Knicks under MDA, and other than Fields and Gallinari, and some others, to a lesser extent, I did not see much effort on D.

I like Felton, but he does not seem to be the guy to handle this offense, and as the topic heading hints- he is not making the guys around him better.

I continue to see Fields and Gallo cutting to the basket and not getting the ball when they are open. Why should they continue to do this if they are rarely going to get the ball?

As for our other PG, I believe that Dounglas may have an injury affecting his shot. He has had continuous problems the last few games, and given his work ethic, I think that there is something wrong with him physically. If there is, he should not be playing.

Very painful to watch.

The two biggest culprits launching outside were Felton and TD. TD took some really ill advised shots and Felton doesn't seem to be able to see his own players under the rim.

The problem with the prevalent opinion in the UK is this:

1. This year we have given MDA a talented team built for his style of play and he has no more excuses.
2. We don't have the PGs or enough jump shooters to make MDA's system work, and we have a number of people who continue to make bad decisions with the ball.

The same people keep saying both of the above or variations of them all over the place. Do you see a contradiction here?

I was a little hesitant in the beginning of the season as I am not very familiar with Felton. I thought TD would be better than this. We really need a pass first PG. Felton is more of a attack the rim type in the Dinglebury mold in that he wants to get his first. The only way Felton will be effective in this system is during the transition game. He should push the ball all the time when he is in. This is the strength of his game. He does not have the halfcourt skills needed for this system. Push the ball all the time then when we are in our halfcourt set, defer to Gallo as the point forward and let him create with Amare. Everytime Gallo had the ball and he drives to the basket good things happen.

Yes I had great expectations of Felton as well. What I don't get is how people can say we now have a team built for MDA and he has no excuses and then turn around and say our PG can't run the PnR and out shooters can't shoot. How is that supposed to be an MDA team?

it's pretty simple... MDA has had the past 2 years to evaluate & assess which players he wanted to get rid of, which players he wanted to keep & which players he wanted to add to this roster... this summer DW went out & signed Amare Stoudamire because he was the guy that had previous success playing in MDA's system... DW & MDA have maintained all along that they are committed to each other in their roster & personnel decisions, which means MDA has a say in who DW targets... if MDA didn't want Ray Felton to be the PG to run this system, do u think DW would have signed him to begin with? do you think we go after guys like Roger Mason Jr. in free agency if MDA isn't on board w/it? i don't... go ahead & tell me how MDA can get a pass if he doesn't get this team to win at least 41 games this season in your eyes... don't tell me he doesn't have the talent to at least be .500 on this team... being .500 & being successful are 2 different things we're talking about.

when i say he can't be successful w/o a MVP calibre PG, it's based on what i've seen from this team & based on MDA's own past history... when has he ever been successful in the NBA w/his system without Steve Nash?

I am not asking you to give him a pass nor am I giving him one myself. I am just calling out the contradiction in what is being said. Just because he may have input on personnel decisions doesn't mean he gets what he wants - it looks like you made that conclusion on your own. Also picking Felton was a no-brainer because there was no one else. Do I think DW would override what MDA asks for when making the decision to hire someone yes I absolutely think he would.

As to your line of reasoning would you then agree that PJax never would succeed w/o the best player in the league playing for him and when he came up empty w/o shaq he should have given up coaching the triangle offense? Because I don't think he would ever do that, not that it matters but its the same line of reasoning. MDA created a powerhouse team in the west and gave the best in business a run for their money. That is why he is the coach. Asking him to change his system is the same as asking PJax to abandon the triangle or Bill Parcells to be sweet to his players. These people have their own styles and its their conviction in those styles that make they who they are. When you bring them on board you should know exactly what to expect.

again, there is no contradiction except in your own inability to comprehend the difference between saying MDA has no excuses not to get this team to .500 this year w/this current roster & saying he can't be successful w/o an MVP calibre PG like Steve Nash... a .500 record is what you call average... that's a lot less of an expectation & should be a given after 2 years of evaluation, clearing cap & then reloading our roster this past summer... another 30 win type season & you better believe MDA will deserve to get the boot.

I do expect this team to get somewhere around the 37-42 Win range but no I don't call for people to get fired simply because of that. If you think the all star break is as long as any coach can get to make a completely new roster start playing .500 ball then that is your own expectation. I hope Walsh has other more realistic ones.

I think MDA has been trying to improve our defense and we are a top 10 team in the NBA in terms of Rebounding, Blocks and Steals. Instead of blindly repeating MDA doesn't coach defense I am trying to point out that he has produced an improvement on defense at least that seems to be the initial indication.

Last year you had a huge gripe about MDA never playing any rookies now you see we are starting two rookies.

People keep painting the picture he is inflexible and doesn't make changes I have given evidence of him making changes on the two things he got criticized the most for, Defense and not playing rookies. But it looks more and more like people flat out refuse to acknowledge these changes.