martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:Agreed:
Rebound has been an issue. Lets roll with:

Felton
Fields
Randolph
Amare
Chandler

The rebounding would improve and the Knicks would rely less on threes.

teams will pack the paint cause they know none of those guys are a threat from outside of 18 feet. And then your PnR will fail miserably. And you also have 2 guys in AR and Chandler who constantly break the flow of the offense and just chuck shots.

I don't think these guy's are just chuking shots up, hell, we have been saying that for 2 years and there been 20 new players..what is that a coincedence??? If thats the case, we have been chucking shots since MDA got here, at some point it maybe safe to say, thats what he wants he's players to do

for me that's just a short sighted answer. You really think MDA tells AR to just force shots?

Unfortunately, he won't say force shots.... you word it differently ( be aggressive, take the first open shot, keep the defense on there heels) your mind set is, im doing what the coach ask me to do

FistOfOakley wrote:

martin wrote:we are not in rebuilding mode?

I would say we are but given our draft pick situation this year, as well as the contract that we gave Amare, there is zero incentive to sacrifice productive minutes purely for the sake of development. If it was a choice between Mozgov and Drew Gooden then yes I would be for playing Mozgov. But Randolph and Chandler are better players right now and we're going to need to make a decision on how they fit, with Chandler it's one season, with Randolph a little bit more time but there's no reason to play Mozgov at their expense.

That's if you subscribe to my theory that they both should be playing the 4. Some might disagree and that's fine but there's strong evidence that we'll be much better off that way.

our draft situation and the fact that we signed Amare have nothing to do with the composition and age and experience of the current roster.

The Knicks are starting 2 rookies. Gallo is playing what would be his second full season. Pretty much same with AR. Bill Walker and TD have about as much experience as each other, which is about their second year in the league.

The Knicks are like the 4th or 6th youngest team in the league (which is usually reserved for teams that have been in the lottery for year after year).

The Knicks are rebuilding. Quickly, but they are rebuilding.

FistOfOakley wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:Why does it matter how many games he's played. You don't coach a player based on how many games he's played, you coach a guy based on what you see on the floor. The kid is 21, struggles with decision making, and has his concentration wane consistently. NOw you can again, ignore the mistakes, but when he is not hustlign and being a terror on the court you take him out. What will he learn from that? he will learn that if he wants to get minutes he has to hustle and be a terror on the court. If you hand him minutes despite the energy level, then what does that do for you?

You say that he needs to know what the consequences are. The consequences have been thoroughly communicated. If he doesn't give maximum effort, then he sits. What other consequences should there be? Should D'Antoni shoot him?

I get a lot of what you're saying and if we were in rebuilding mode I'd be all for it however this team was meant to be competitive now with some pieces for the future. Mozgov was handed minutes because of flashes of what he can do instead of what he actually does and what he actually does, in aggregate is not much. Give those minutes to people who can do something, while they may take some things off the table as well, but no player is perfect.

This is Mozgov's first year and Randolph's third yet they're being treated the opposite of what you would think, at least so far. We'll see if this actually changes but Mozgov playing is hurting us now.

You guys act like there shouldn't be consequences for guys. We are ignoring his bonehead shots, poor ball movement and insane decision making and seem to only be punishing him when he is not hustling. What is wrong with that? What would Popovich, Jackson, Riley do with a guy that wasn't hustling? Hug and kiss them and tell them everything will be alright. No they would get yanked.

How is Mozov being handed minutes. He gets yanked when he commits silly fouls and often times is never heard from again. The treatment is the same. They are both young players and have to earn their minutes.

We are currently a young team with a bunch of guys that deserve minutes. In a situation like that the last thing you want to do is hand minutes to a guy even when he's not hustling. Horrible message to the otehr young guys. We are trying to teach them to be professionals and they should play when they earn it. Randolph has done nothing in his career to indicate that he deserves minutes over any of these guys. We are not in position to reward potenital, we are in position to reward production.

Vmart wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:If the only way to develop is to be handed minutes in an NBA game, then someone please explain to me how a guy can go away for a summer and come back a better player then the year before. Are they playing in secret, black market NBa games?

Its called experience. Knowing what you have faced and remembering what works and what doesn't. Taking that into the off season to work on thing that will work if the same situation arises. There is no substitute for experience.

How many minutes did Toney Douglas play last year??? Did he improve? TD plays one season and comes back the next improved. Randolph is consistently averaging 20 minutes a game for his career. Did Toney have more experience to go on to improve his game?? Do you need experience to know how to hustle on every play. Again, the man is losing minutes when he is not bringing energy. On those nights he does bring energy he will get plenty of minutes. What is the problem with that philosophy?

TMS wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:Why do fans make stuff up??????? Timo is getting a free pass?????? He's a starter averaging 15 minutes a game and gets yanked after a couple stupid fouls, and often times will not see the court for quarters at a time. As a matter of fact, take away the first game, when he just returned from the injury and Randolph is averaging more minutes then Mozgov.

I can guarantee you non coaches, that when Randolph is ready to produce he will get extensive minutes. 35+ when he's ready.

He has a major issue. He is a guy that floats in and out of games mentally. We are trying to nip this in the bud, so we aren't dealing with this 40 games from now, or 2 years from now, or five years from now.

You'll notice that Gallinari is getting benched as well, when he isn't giving effort. Too much competition on this team to look the other way when any player is dogging it no matter how much potential they have.

i'm concerned that 7'1" Moz hasn't been able to pull down more boards since he's had the starting role... he is getting out positioned & out hustled for loose balls with regularity... he doesn't seem to have a good idea of where to position himself for boards when guys put up shots... it's clear he needs a lot of work in this area... a guy with his size & athleticism should easily be grabbing more boards.

Agreed. It's almost maddening. I'm seeing what you are seeing. Before the season they were saying that he's great at boxing out but just doesn't pursue the ball. What I'm seeing is a guy that is getting overpowered, outreacted and outquicked. Even when he goes for the rebounding it looks like he is just kind of going after it, instead of trying to kill people to get it.

TMS wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:Why do fans make stuff up??????? Timo is getting a free pass?????? He's a starter averaging 15 minutes a game and gets yanked after a couple stupid fouls, and often times will not see the court for quarters at a time. As a matter of fact, take away the first game, when he just returned from the injury and Randolph is averaging more minutes then Mozgov.

I can guarantee you non coaches, that when Randolph is ready to produce he will get extensive minutes. 35+ when he's ready.

He has a major issue. He is a guy that floats in and out of games mentally. We are trying to nip this in the bud, so we aren't dealing with this 40 games from now, or 2 years from now, or five years from now.

You'll notice that Gallinari is getting benched as well, when he isn't giving effort. Too much competition on this team to look the other way when any player is dogging it no matter how much potential they have.

i'm concerned that 7'1" Moz hasn't been able to pull down more boards since he's had the starting role... he is getting out positioned & out hustled for loose balls with regularity... he doesn't seem to have a good idea of where to position himself for boards when guys put up shots... it's clear he needs a lot of work in this area... a guy with his size & athleticism should easily be grabbing more boards.

The lack of a big man coach really hurts the knicks. Herb is not a big man coach. I'd like to bring in Moses Malone or even Oakley and work on rebound with the Knick's bigs.

Vmart wrote:
The lack of a big man coach really hurts the knicks. Herb is not a big man coach. I'd like to bring in Moses Malone or even Oakley and work on rebound with the Knick's bigs.

It would be nice to see Oak as an assistant coach/drill sergeant. Wouldn't mind seeing Hakeem showing the guys some post moves. I see him working with pros from time to time.

GustavBahler wrote:

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

Hakeem Olajuwon!

He worked with Kobe before last season and Kobe came back with a pretty nasty post game.

Dwight Howard worked with him this past offseason and looks better in the post too.

Yes both Kobe and Dwight Howard have tons of athleticism and talent but I would love love love for Hakeem to be the big man coach here even over my boy Patrick Ewing.

haha beat me to it. Gotta be quick on the draw...