TMS wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

TMS wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:HOLY CRAP... Mozgov got quick fouls. We all expected that. Give the kid a break. He needs to learn spacing, timing, etc... at the NBA level. Whether he takes the first five minutes of the 1st quarter or the last five minutes of the first quarter doesn't really matter. Seriously though... after one game your attacking Mozgov? Give me a break.

dude, i'm not saying he's a bust... where in the hell am i attacking Mozgov? jeezus, you really need to learn some reading comprehension... i'm saying that for now, until Mozgov gets his feet under him, that Turiaf should be starting games... this kid needs to be eased into the starting role, he didn't look ready for it last night... yes, it's a 1 game sample, but in that 1 game i saw Turiaf playing very well alongside Amare... i think until Mozgov gets more acclimated to the pace of the NBA game, that Turiaf should be the starter.

Are you joking with me-- you claim that I need reading comprehension? Where did I imply that you called him a bust? "Where am I attacking Mozgov"-- you said he looked lost. You then said "I'll give him a pass" but in the same sentence make the determination that he should lose his starting role.

I don't buy into the "bring guys along slowly"... that worked wonderfully for Jordan Hill. Mozgov is a rookie, but he's a professional veteran.

My point is that he might as well start the game, get the confidence boost that he is the starter, and see how he does. Give him the opportunity to play the whole quarter if he can keep his fouls in check.

No need to switch things up after 1 game.

he did look lost... he was collecting cheap fouls early on, even running into a guy for no reason downcourt... Clyde made a point to comment on it... i think Turiaf's dirty work style game is a better complement to Amare's game, at least for now... IMO getting Mozgov more involved in the offense off the bench is a better way to ease him into the rotation, perhaps using him in more of the pick & roll while Amare is taking a rest... the clips i watched of Mozgov he seems to do that pretty well... after a while you can start him after he gets a hang of the offense.

don't even use Jordan Hill as a comparison here, he was a 22 yo rookie who's game was very raw & still needed lots of development in his footwork, that much was obvious... i think Mozgov would be better off starting off on the bench until he gets more comfortable playing in this system... that's not what i would call attacking the guy based off 1 game.

To be fair one of those early 2 fouls was a complete joke of a call. The play where he barely brushed up against a guy and they blew the whistle...I wanted to throw the damn remote against the friggin' wall --- he never touched the guy. Moz couldn't believe it -- grabbing his head with both hands and looking around as if to say WTF (and then God forbid he even breathes wrong there or says something in Russian, he's gonna get hit with a T on top of it -- gimme a f'in break)...Hey if he hacks a guy or bodies a guy excessively and they get him, OK, he'll have to adjust. But there have been way too many phantom calls on this dude already going back to preseason. Stop with the ticky-tack ****, or even worse the nonexistent stuff. It's BS. It's not like he's some uncoorordinated freakshow out there. On the contrary, he's actually quite coorordinated for a guy that big and he's got a very good grasp of what he's doing -- jumping out and setting screens and then rolling to the basket [a play where Felton/TD need to look for him more early one because he's been open], switching nicely on defense, blocking shots cleanly with little or no body contact down below.. Let the dude play man -- stop sabotaging him of his playing time on phantom calls. Why? Because he's brand new to the league and these refs feel compelled to blow the whistle on him more than most guys?? Come on. Gimmie a break with these zebras already. Swallow that damn whistle and let these guys play ball!!! The last thing I wanna see is Moz playing passive because he's ancicipating getting called for some of these rediculous fouls. He may have seemed lost a little bit last night but what did he play 7 mins the entire game?? He never had a chance to get going..Mike had to yank him with the 2 fouls there early - thank God Ronny came in & started rolling -- Mike then had the luxury of sticking with it. Most nights losing Moz that early is gonna sting more. Just let those damn calls be legitimate, that's all I ask.

Silverfuel wrote:Agree with Finestrg, two of those foul calls were bull****.

Seriously man -- it's bad enough with what these refs are doing with these nonsense phantom technical foul calls outta nowhere. I know the league told them to clean it up a bit but come on -- handing out techs like candy on Halloween is an absolute joke, esp. given the fact that most of these refs are lousy anyway and blow calls all over the place..Just like in baseball -- you don't really wanna see the refs having that big a deal in the outcome of games.

Finestrg wrote:

TMS wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

TMS wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:HOLY CRAP... Mozgov got quick fouls. We all expected that. Give the kid a break. He needs to learn spacing, timing, etc... at the NBA level. Whether he takes the first five minutes of the 1st quarter or the last five minutes of the first quarter doesn't really matter. Seriously though... after one game your attacking Mozgov? Give me a break.

dude, i'm not saying he's a bust... where in the hell am i attacking Mozgov? jeezus, you really need to learn some reading comprehension... i'm saying that for now, until Mozgov gets his feet under him, that Turiaf should be starting games... this kid needs to be eased into the starting role, he didn't look ready for it last night... yes, it's a 1 game sample, but in that 1 game i saw Turiaf playing very well alongside Amare... i think until Mozgov gets more acclimated to the pace of the NBA game, that Turiaf should be the starter.

Are you joking with me-- you claim that I need reading comprehension? Where did I imply that you called him a bust? "Where am I attacking Mozgov"-- you said he looked lost. You then said "I'll give him a pass" but in the same sentence make the determination that he should lose his starting role.

I don't buy into the "bring guys along slowly"... that worked wonderfully for Jordan Hill. Mozgov is a rookie, but he's a professional veteran.

My point is that he might as well start the game, get the confidence boost that he is the starter, and see how he does. Give him the opportunity to play the whole quarter if he can keep his fouls in check.

No need to switch things up after 1 game.

he did look lost... he was collecting cheap fouls early on, even running into a guy for no reason downcourt... Clyde made a point to comment on it... i think Turiaf's dirty work style game is a better complement to Amare's game, at least for now... IMO getting Mozgov more involved in the offense off the bench is a better way to ease him into the rotation, perhaps using him in more of the pick & roll while Amare is taking a rest... the clips i watched of Mozgov he seems to do that pretty well... after a while you can start him after he gets a hang of the offense.

don't even use Jordan Hill as a comparison here, he was a 22 yo rookie who's game was very raw & still needed lots of development in his footwork, that much was obvious... i think Mozgov would be better off starting off on the bench until he gets more comfortable playing in this system... that's not what i would call attacking the guy based off 1 game.

To be fair one of those early 2 fouls was a complete joke of a call. The play where he barely brushed up against a guy and they blew the whistle...I wanted to throw the damn remote against the friggin' wall --- he never touched the guy. Moz couldn't believe it -- grabbing his head with both hands and looking around as if to say WTF (and then ZGod forbid he even breaths wrong there or says something in Russian, he's gonna get hit with a T on top of it -- gimme a break)...Hey if he hacks a guy or bodies a guy excessively and they get him, OK, he'll have to adjust. But there have been way too many phantom calls on this dude already going back to preseason. Stop with the ticky-tack ****, or even worse the nonexistent stuff. It's BS. It's not like he's some uncoorordinated freakshow out there. On the contrary, he's actually quite coorordinated for a guy that big and he's got a very good grasp of what he's doing -- jumping out and setting screens and then rolling to the basket [a play where Felton need to look for him more early one because he's been open], switching nicely on defense, blocking shots cleanly with little or no body contact down below.. Let the dude play man -- stop sabotaging him of his playing time on phantom calls. Why? Because he's brand new to the league and these refs feel compelled to blow the whistle on him more than most guys?? Come on. Gimmie a break with these zebras already. Swallow that damn whistle and let these guys play ball!!! The last thing I wanna see is Moz playing passive because he's ancicipating getting called for some of these rediculous fouls. He may have seemed lost a little bit last night but what did he play 7 mins the entire game?? He never had a chance to get going..Mike had to yank him with the 2 fouls there early - thank God Ronny came in & started rolling -- Mike then had the luxury of sticking with it. Most nights losing Moz that early is gonna sting more..

It's not that there phantom calls, he just makes it soooo obvious..Listen, this isn't NBA refs against the russian, he's been addicted to fouls from the start of his career up til now. every scout in the world (literally) knows this..

The play were he pratically ran side by side (from half court) with calderon, then throws his body into him right before he's about to go up or pass. Your 5 inch's taller then the guy, if he gets pass you, your arms are longer enough to swat any shot he puts up, know need to crowd the guy.

knicks1248 wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear

Moz played his first real game in the NBA. He is a smart guy who got the gitters and trying to hard. Pulling him out of the starting lineup now will mess with his head. Keep him in the starting lineup for 7 -8 games then take a second look. I think the kid will be ok. He is smart and until he gets the respect of the refs he will get foul calls even if he breathed on someone.

Actually all of his fouls were blaten, none of them were ticky tack fouls. hard to look the other way at some of his fouls

Papabear Says

Ok a hard foul here and there. It was just a week ago everyone was insisting on him starting and in one game you want him back on the bench. let's just give the kid a chance 7 - 8 more games starting and then take a second look. I'm quite sure the coaches are working with him to play smarter defense. At least he is hitting someone instead of letting them go to the basket without even trying to defend.

Finestrg wrote:

TMS wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

TMS wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:HOLY CRAP... Mozgov got quick fouls. We all expected that. Give the kid a break. He needs to learn spacing, timing, etc... at the NBA level. Whether he takes the first five minutes of the 1st quarter or the last five minutes of the first quarter doesn't really matter. Seriously though... after one game your attacking Mozgov? Give me a break.

dude, i'm not saying he's a bust... where in the hell am i attacking Mozgov? jeezus, you really need to learn some reading comprehension... i'm saying that for now, until Mozgov gets his feet under him, that Turiaf should be starting games... this kid needs to be eased into the starting role, he didn't look ready for it last night... yes, it's a 1 game sample, but in that 1 game i saw Turiaf playing very well alongside Amare... i think until Mozgov gets more acclimated to the pace of the NBA game, that Turiaf should be the starter.

Are you joking with me-- you claim that I need reading comprehension? Where did I imply that you called him a bust? "Where am I attacking Mozgov"-- you said he looked lost. You then said "I'll give him a pass" but in the same sentence make the determination that he should lose his starting role.

I don't buy into the "bring guys along slowly"... that worked wonderfully for Jordan Hill. Mozgov is a rookie, but he's a professional veteran.

My point is that he might as well start the game, get the confidence boost that he is the starter, and see how he does. Give him the opportunity to play the whole quarter if he can keep his fouls in check.

No need to switch things up after 1 game.

he did look lost... he was collecting cheap fouls early on, even running into a guy for no reason downcourt... Clyde made a point to comment on it... i think Turiaf's dirty work style game is a better complement to Amare's game, at least for now... IMO getting Mozgov more involved in the offense off the bench is a better way to ease him into the rotation, perhaps using him in more of the pick & roll while Amare is taking a rest... the clips i watched of Mozgov he seems to do that pretty well... after a while you can start him after he gets a hang of the offense.

don't even use Jordan Hill as a comparison here, he was a 22 yo rookie who's game was very raw & still needed lots of development in his footwork, that much was obvious... i think Mozgov would be better off starting off on the bench until he gets more comfortable playing in this system... that's not what i would call attacking the guy based off 1 game.

To be fair one of those early 2 fouls was a complete joke of a call. The play where he barely brushed up against a guy and they blew the whistle...I wanted to throw the damn remote against the friggin' wall --- he never touched the guy. Moz couldn't believe it -- grabbing his head with both hands and looking around as if to say WTF (and then God forbid he even breathes wrong there or says something in Russian, he's gonna get hit with a T on top of it -- gimme a f'in break)...Hey if he hacks a guy or bodies a guy excessively and they get him, OK, he'll have to adjust. But there have been way too many phantom calls on this dude already going back to preseason. Stop with the ticky-tack ****, or even worse the nonexistent stuff. It's BS. It's not like he's some uncoorordinated freakshow out there. On the contrary, he's actually quite coorordinated for a guy that big and he's got a very good grasp of what he's doing -- jumping out and setting screens and then rolling to the basket [a play where Felton/TD need to look for him more early one because he's been open], switching nicely on defense, blocking shots cleanly with little or no body contact down below.. Let the dude play man -- stop sabotaging him of his playing time on phantom calls. Why? Because he's brand new to the league and these refs feel compelled to blow the whistle on him more than most guys?? Come on. Gimmie a break with these zebras already. Swallow that damn whistle and let these guys play ball!!! The last thing I wanna see is Moz playing passive because he's ancicipating getting called for some of these rediculous fouls. He may have seemed lost a little bit last night but what did he play 7 mins the entire game?? He never had a chance to get going..Mike had to yank him with the 2 fouls there early - thank God Ronny came in & started rolling -- Mike then had the luxury of sticking with it. Most nights losing Moz that early is gonna sting more. Just let those damn calls be legitimate, that's all I ask.

I agree with you- but that is why I think he should be off the bench and not starting. I think as a starter, refs always look early to get into a flow, and he'll be a magnet for those calls where the refs are setting the tone. He's simply the rookie and while I agree the refs should learn how to call a game better, if he comes in off the bench, the refs have already set the tone, to some degree swallowed their whistle and might actually let him play.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/scared_mozgov_bides_time_GU0mI4Mf8C0d7Ypz1jYA3L

'Scared' Mozgov bides time on Knicks bench

Russian rookie center Timofey Mozgov has been banished to Siberia -- or Knicks coach Mike D'Antoni's doghouse. It's really the same thing.

And as Mozgov has fallen from grace and the Knicks' rotation, so has his confidence.

"I have to stop worrying too much on court," Mozgov told The Post in a rare interview. "[I'm] scared a little bit. Because it's my first year, a rookie, I have to be more confident."

When D'Antoni falls out of love with a player, he means it. Mozgov has not played non-garbage-time minutes in three weeks. During training camp, D'Antoni extensively praised Mozgov and handed him the starting center job entering the season.

D'Antoni's decision not to use the 7-foot-1 center Thursday in Orlando against towering Magic center Dwight Howard with Amar'e Stoudemire in foul trouble was an eye-opening indications of D'Antoni's lack of trust.

"We already made a decision [on Mozgov]," D'Antoni said. "We can't be like, 'Let's try this today.' "

Mozgov looked shaky on both ends during his last days in the rotation. He bobbled passes, couldn't snatch gettable rebounds and missed dunks. His English keeps improving, but his game has regressed.

"I've still got to learn," Mozgov said. "I've still got to feel the game. It is still different from Europe. I will change something. I think we need more time. I don't know how long this will be. I'm hoping not long."

The coaching staff feels it will go back to Mozgov at some point this season. The investment was heavy -- a three-year, $9.7 million contract -- to help finance his buyout.

But D'Antoni said he likes his short eight-man rotation, experimenting with using 6-foot-8 Shawne Williams as a backup center. The staff feels Mozgov is feeling the pressure.

D'Antoni said, "We pushed him too hard, too soon."

To his credit, Mozgov is not complaining in either language. He explained that two years ago with his Russian team, Khimki, he had a fight with the coach and almost never played. He said this time is different.

"When I came here, I didn't think about playing too much or scoring too much," Mozgov said. "I just came here to think about my first season, to be ready to learn."

TMS wrote:seems like now we're dealing with a kid who's confidence has been completely shot... we're now in rehab mode w/Mozgov.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/scared_mozgov_bides_time_GU0mI4Mf8C0d7Ypz1jYA3L

'Scared' Mozgov bides time on Knicks bench

Russian rookie center Timofey Mozgov has been banished to Siberia -- or Knicks coach Mike D'Antoni's doghouse. It's really the same thing.

And as Mozgov has fallen from grace and the Knicks' rotation, so has his confidence.

"I have to stop worrying too much on court," Mozgov told The Post in a rare interview. "[I'm] scared a little bit. Because it's my first year, a rookie, I have to be more confident."

When D'Antoni falls out of love with a player, he means it. Mozgov has not played non-garbage-time minutes in three weeks. During training camp, D'Antoni extensively praised Mozgov and handed him the starting center job entering the season.

D'Antoni's decision not to use the 7-foot-1 center Thursday in Orlando against towering Magic center Dwight Howard with Amar'e Stoudemire in foul trouble was an eye-opening indications of D'Antoni's lack of trust.

"We already made a decision [on Mozgov]," D'Antoni said. "We can't be like, 'Let's try this today.' "

Mozgov looked shaky on both ends during his last days in the rotation. He bobbled passes, couldn't snatch gettable rebounds and missed dunks. His English keeps improving, but his game has regressed.

"I've still got to learn," Mozgov said. "I've still got to feel the game. It is still different from Europe. I will change something. I think we need more time. I don't know how long this will be. I'm hoping not long."

The coaching staff feels it will go back to Mozgov at some point this season. The investment was heavy -- a three-year, $9.7 million contract -- to help finance his buyout.

But D'Antoni said he likes his short eight-man rotation, experimenting with using 6-foot-8 Shawne Williams as a backup center. The staff feels Mozgov is feeling the pressure.

D'Antoni said, "We pushed him too hard, too soon."

To his credit, Mozgov is not complaining in either language. He explained that two years ago with his Russian team, Khimki, he had a fight with the coach and almost never played. He said this time is different.

"When I came here, I didn't think about playing too much or scoring too much," Mozgov said. "I just came here to think about my first season, to be ready to learn."

Whats your read on this TMS? I'm reading it as Moz being scared from day, which would explain the reason why dude couldn't catch simple post passes, early fouls, 10 foot bricks, etc. I'm not sure I can blame MDA from yanking a player if he is mentally and visibly scared on the court.