Bippity10 wrote:I like chandler at pf for stretches. We can go small, run and bring a shotblocker away from the basket./ for short stretches you can really keep the other tam guessing. For long stretches unfortunately he is way undersized. He is strong and can battle with the leagues pf's but the better ones will just shoot over him. Also as a pf he is not a very good rebounder and that is already a major weakness of ours

I don't understand why you want Chandler at PF why not just put Randolph there that is why he is on the team. This way you don't lose out on the height factor.

I like Wilson as a player. He is tough and has decent driving ability and athleticism. If he could just have a good mid range jumper I'd feel better about playing him at PF. As it is we are pretty light on rebounding, so that's my main concern now.

martin wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

martin wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Chandler is a horrible rebounder for his size. He's 6'8" and super athletic... and he gets fewer rebounds than Trevor Ariza.

I agree with this. Chandler has all the ability in the world to grab AT LEAST 7 rebounds a game, and he hasn't shown that. It's been the one aspect of his game that's been dissapointing, and because of this, I don't really trust him at the PF position ESPECIALLY with an undersized Amar'e playing center and to me, Amar'e is better off playing PF.

dude was playing a lot of SG last season.

So? That means he can't go in and crash the boards? If that's the excuse, then it's a pretty crappy one at that.

Come on man, we are better than that.

First, you should let me know what the finer points are in the difference between making an excuse and putting something out there that is a reasonable explanation of things.

As a SG, you are most guarding OTHER SGs, no? Meaning you end up way far from the basket? Against other shooting guards, Chandler ranks as one of the best rebounders in the league.

Have you considered rebounds per minute or rebounds as a percentage of his teams total rebounds?

Or are we completely comfortable in saying that someone sucks or is totally awesome after making a split-second, non-relevant and not very well thought out comparison?

I didn't make any comparison. I said he should be able to grab seven rebounds a game and the fact that he hasn't grabbed more rebounds has been dissapointing and I also said it would hurt to put him at PF because it would make us weak in the frontcourt. Is that completely unreasonable? PERHAPS my thinking he can grab 7 rebounds a game is SLIGHTLY unreasonable but I doubt it. Other than that though, NO.

Also, it doesn't matter what position he plays. He can still go out and compete for the rebounds after the shot has been made and have the athleticism to get back to his opponent if the offensive rebound has been made. He has that type of motor and he should if he wants to be a main cog in MDAs fastbreak system anyway. With that said, if a big strong and athletic guy like Wilson went and competed on the boards, then the chances of the offense grabbing that rebound are that much slimmer so he wouldn't even have to worry about getting back to his man on most occasions. It's not a problem of position. It's more of a mindset issue. Wilson has to be a monster on the boards and he can be. I'd MUCH rather see him become one who can start the fast break and give up an occasional 3 then our team give up offensive rebounds constantly and ruining the good defense I know we can play and not being able to initiate the break.

But what do I know. I'm just saying he sucks in a non relevant not very well thought out way.

Allanfan20 wrote:

martin wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

martin wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Chandler is a horrible rebounder for his size. He's 6'8" and super athletic... and he gets fewer rebounds than Trevor Ariza.

I agree with this. Chandler has all the ability in the world to grab AT LEAST 7 rebounds a game, and he hasn't shown that. It's been the one aspect of his game that's been dissapointing, and because of this, I don't really trust him at the PF position ESPECIALLY with an undersized Amar'e playing center and to me, Amar'e is better off playing PF.

dude was playing a lot of SG last season.

So? That means he can't go in and crash the boards? If that's the excuse, then it's a pretty crappy one at that.

Come on man, we are better than that.

First, you should let me know what the finer points are in the difference between making an excuse and putting something out there that is a reasonable explanation of things.

As a SG, you are most guarding OTHER SGs, no? Meaning you end up way far from the basket? Against other shooting guards, Chandler ranks as one of the best rebounders in the league.

Have you considered rebounds per minute or rebounds as a percentage of his teams total rebounds?

Or are we completely comfortable in saying that someone sucks or is totally awesome after making a split-second, non-relevant and not very well thought out comparison?

I didn't make any comparison. I said he should be able to grab seven rebounds a game and the fact that he hasn't grabbed more rebounds has been dissapointing and I also said it would hurt to put him at PF because it would make us weak in the frontcourt. Is that completely unreasonable? PERHAPS my thinking he can grab 7 rebounds a game is SLIGHTLY unreasonable but I doubt it. Other than that though, NO.

Also, it doesn't matter what position he plays. He can still go out and compete for the rebounds after the shot has been made and have the athleticism to get back to his opponent if the offensive rebound has been made. He has that type of motor and he should if he wants to be a main cog in MDAs fastbreak system anyway. With that said, if a big strong and athletic guy like Wilson went and competed on the boards, then the chances of the offense grabbing that rebound are that much slimmer so he wouldn't even have to worry about getting back to his man on most occasions. It's not a problem of position. It's more of a mindset issue. Wilson has to be a monster on the boards and he can be. I'd MUCH rather see him become one who can start the fast break and give up an occasional 3 then our team give up offensive rebounds constantly and ruining the good defense I know we can play and not being able to initiate the break.

But what do I know. I'm just saying he sucks in a non relevant not very well thought out way.

Let me take it from a different angle.

Also, it doesn't matter what position he plays.

I think there is a general assumption on my part that position DOES count. Start here and then look at PGs, SGs, SF, PF, and C's. The number of rebounds per 48 minutes goes up depending on what role you play with your team. Part of that is the role you are expected to play when shot is missed (go after rebound vs. get back on defense), where you are on the court (close you are to rim when shot goes up the more rebounds there are available), etc. So it is safe to say that position DOES effect overall rebounding numbers.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/rebounds/sort/avg48Rebounds/position/point-guards
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/rebounds/sort/avg48Rebounds/position/shooting-guards
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/rebounds/sort/avg48Rebounds/position/small-forwards
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/rebounds/sort/avg48Rebounds/position/power-forwards
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/rebounds/sort/avg48Rebounds/position/centers

PERHAPS my thinking he can grab 7 rebounds a game is SLIGHTLY unreasonable but I doubt it.

Chandler splits his time between SG and SF. I have no idea how much and it's hard to gauge. Here is one site's take (55% of time at SG and less at SF):

http://www.82games.com/0910/09NYK10.HTM

Chandler averages 7.2 RPG Per 48.
The 5th and 6th highest SFs IN THE WHOLE LEAGE average 9.4 RPG Per 48.
The 5th and 6th highest SGs IN THE WHOLE LEAGE average 7.0 RPG Per 48.
If you say that Chandler splits time equally in both positions, if he was going to be the 5th highest rebounder in the league, he should average somewhere around 8.2 (the average of 7.0 and 9.4).

Right now Chandler average 35 MGP and does 5.4 RPG. You want him to average 7 rebounds a game in 35 minutes, which is 9.6 over 48 minutes.

You are expecting Chandler to be just about the BEST rebounder for the SF in the whole league while also playing a position 50% of the time that arguably and across the line gets significantly less rebounds than the rest of the SFs.

Like that. We all know stats aren't everything, but these broad strokes paint a decent picture.

fishmike wrote:Player 48-Minute Production by Position

Position	FGA	eFG%	FTA	iFG	Reb	Ast	T/O	Blk	PF	Pts	PER*
SG	18.3  	.495  	3.0  	37% 	7.7  	3.1  	2.4  	.9  	3.4  	20.5  	15.3  
SF	17.2  	.520  	3.7  	35% 	6.6  	2.5  	2.1  	1.2  	4.2  	21.0  	15.9  
 

Opponent Counterpart 48-Minute Production

Position	FGA	eFG%	FTA	iFG	Reb	Ast	T/O	Blk	PF	Pts	PER*
SG	17.7  	.484  	3.9  	25% 	5.7  	3.3  	2.1  	.4  	3.1  	20.4  	14.3  
SF	17.1  	.544  	4.8  	27% 	8.5  	2.8  	2.7  	.6  	4.2  	22.2  	16.5  

here's the breakdown:
Chandler played 1260 minutes at SG and 945 at SF. Chandler plays 35 minutes a game, so if you were to separate the position switch into games it would play out like this:
SF: 27 games
SG: 36 games

Thats a pretty good sample of games to look at.

Now go back to 82 games and you see some very clear trends, namely that Chandler is a better SG than SF. Look at his #s. His EFG% at SG is lower, but his opponents is lower as well. He rebounds more as a SG, more assists, fewer fouls, and his opponent is held to a lower FG%.

Ive never been married to defining a player by a position. If Ewing was healthy we probably win a title with a 3 guard lineup. Put not only the best 5, but the 5 who play the best on the floor and go from there. Chandler does too many things well to not be on the floor for 35 minutes a game. Not sure I really care where those minutes come

Nice formatting there fishmike ;) I always have trouble with that....

there is evidence here both ways. He has a higher eFG% at SF in both cases his assist and rebound numbers are only fair-to-good at either position per 48.

This only takes in one side of the whole equation though. The other side is what do you want at the 2 and the 3? Are you going to try to trap and keep the game fast paced? Sure he is good on the break...is he a better option than AR(3), Mason(2) or Douglas(@2) trapping? I remember some commenting that Wilson often took the toughest defensive assignments...Kobe, Durant, James? It should take more than a paragraph and a thought to dismiss the guy as a starter at either position. He seems to be making good progress to me.

I don't think Chandler is best suited at PF though...sure he could do spot minutes in situations...but the whole game is 'situational' Every game unique.

Martin above noted Jordan's early 3 pt stats ...is this a general tendency among all players? Did 'Sheed come into the league knocking down 3's for instance? Longer in the tooth more attempts in practice.

I liked using TD in the early season at the 2 he did well and I saw no reason for the benching other than getting vets in for value. I'd be looking at Rautins @ the 2 as well and see if he can earn minutes. Maybe d'Antoni don't bench him for 4 months if he averages 16 on the floor with 20+ minutes/ game for a couple weeks

Chandler is so quiet and unassuming thats its almost hard to form an opinion of him. He's just kind of there.

It seems to me that Chandler scores better against bigger players, and does a better job guarding smaller ones.

I will say that he's a very good player. He shoots a high % and has a very nice mix between the midrange game, some post scoring and his ability to drive and make an athletic play in close to score. He's a good rebounder and plays hard on defense even if he doesnt always get the stops.

The challenge is really on MDA. Chandler is a 30mpg player. No doubt about it for me. The question is where do those 30 minutes come?

nyk4ever wrote:

fishmike wrote:funny... I just posted a snipped from an article but its turned into interesting discussion.

Chandler is so quiet and unassuming thats its almost hard to form an opinion of him. He's just kind of there.

It seems to me that Chandler scores better against bigger players, and does a better job guarding smaller ones.

I will say that he's a very good player. He shoots a high % and has a very nice mix between the midrange game, some post scoring and his ability to drive and make an athletic play in close to score. He's a good rebounder and plays hard on defense even if he doesnt always get the stops.

The challenge is really on MDA. Chandler is a 30mpg player. No doubt about it for me. The question is where do those 30 minutes come?

fishy - random question... were you at the grasshopper in morristown last night? was gonna say what's up but you were with a chick so i didn't want to bother you haha

jimi she looked around 199. lol nah she was good looking - part of the reason i didn't bother fish, didn't know if he was gamin her or what.. last thing i wanted him to tell her was "oh hey this is some guy i know from a knicks message board!!!" lol