CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Panos wrote:So if Mike fails this year to prepare the troops and have them play adequate defense/rebounding etc. to keep us in the game,
or fails to develop the youth, will that be his not living up to his legendary and undeniable talent,
and once again, you'll be absolved for being wrong?
You are the SPIN DOCTOR!
I love it. Its win-win for you, isn't it? If they live up to the hype you foresaw it all, if not, well the talent was there,
who could have known they'd not harness it, and time to shamelessly hype up the next guy.
You're the Knicks' fluffer.

Why create a hypothetical situation when we're talking about a real series of events? What is there to spin? I posted FACTS. Darko has talent, was in a near perfect situation. Then he didn't work hard, had a bad attitude and felt entitled and rode the pine. My original analysis was on what he should and could do. HE CHOSE to blow his opportunity, but that doesn't change the fact that he could've played much better and had a better attitude. How do you really account for something like that when trying to make a prediction on how a player will work out? He changed his attitude and put in work on his new team and it worked out for him. He had every opportunity to do that here, but didn't and he fessed up.

Now as for Mike, he has to do the work, and I see no reason to doubt that he's doing that. We won't know for months how he's doing. If he does a bad job then he deserves to be criticized. You and all the guys who love to throw salt on what I post can kiss it. I created the thread to prove a point and my proof is irrefutable. Don't try to twist the issue calling names and making jokes.

I don't think you created something that was irrefutable. Mike was asked about Darko and took a cheapshot. Darko showed character and shook his hand and mended fences. How is that showing anything? Whatever happened between those two was not just Darko's fault. Darko was just man enough to move on and not take shots in the media.

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Panos wrote:So if Mike fails this year to prepare the troops and have them play adequate defense/rebounding etc. to keep us in the game,
or fails to develop the youth, will that be his not living up to his legendary and undeniable talent,
and once again, you'll be absolved for being wrong?
You are the SPIN DOCTOR!
I love it. Its win-win for you, isn't it? If they live up to the hype you foresaw it all, if not, well the talent was there,
who could have known they'd not harness it, and time to shamelessly hype up the next guy.
You're the Knicks' fluffer.

Why create a hypothetical situation when we're talking about a real series of events? What is there to spin? I posted FACTS. Darko has talent, was in a near perfect situation. Then he didn't work hard, had a bad attitude and felt entitled and rode the pine. My original analysis was on what he should and could do. HE CHOSE to blow his opportunity, but that doesn't change the fact that he could've played much better and had a better attitude. How do you really account for something like that when trying to make a prediction on how a player will work out? He changed his attitude and put in work on his new team and it worked out for him. He had every opportunity to do that here, but didn't and he fessed up.

Now as for Mike, he has to do the work, and I see no reason to doubt that he's doing that. We won't know for months how he's doing. If he does a bad job then he deserves to be criticized. You and all the guys who love to throw salt on what I post can kiss it. I created the thread to prove a point and my proof is irrefutable. Don't try to twist the issue calling names and making jokes.

I don't think you created something that was irrefutable. Mike was asked about Darko and took a cheapshot. Darko showed character and shook his hand and mended fences. How is that showing anything? Whatever happened between those two was not just Darko's fault. Darko was just man enough to move on and not take shots in the media.

So what exactly would Mike the Headcoach have to apologize for in this situation? The player is the one that has to do what the coach is demanding, which in most cases is for the betterment of the player and the team. What is it that Mike asked him to do that was out of line or wrong? I think you're just looking for a reason to bash Mike where no reason exists.

I was referring to him taking a shot at Darko in the Berman article and then Darko came over and shook his hand the next day. One guy obviously has character and moved on. As far as what did D'Antoni do to Darko we only know that he never played him. Once Darko fell out of favor he did not play again. D'Antoni doesn't like confrontations so if you asked me to guess what happened I would say that Darko was benched and D'Antoni didn't communicate why or what he needed to do to change that. This is what was reported as having happened with some of the other guys that Walsh had to trade. Effective communication is a huge part of coaching and I think D'Antoni needs to work on this area.

Problem is that you don't KNOW that Mike or any of his coaches didn't try to get thru to Darko. You're assuming based on rumors from other disgruntled players that he didn't speak to him. There's so many times for a player to try and talk to his coach at practice, after or thru an intermediary on the staff, that it's not a valid excuse. The coach doesn't owe players a sitdown conference after every decision. The player is given the directive to practice hard and play hard and things will work out better for him.

Thing is that you and many others were making assumptions that Mike is the one that was having issues and making bad decisions. Mike was the one avoiding his players etc. We don't have much info that can be confirmed, but we know from Darko's own words what his part was in all this. There doesn't seem to be any implication that Mike did anything wrong.

Here's an article on the subject that goes into this a bit more. http://bucketsoverbroadway.com/2010/10/07/darko-admits-failed-tenure-with-knicks-was-his-fault/

While some speculated that Darko Milicic, the former glued-to-the-bench Knick traded to the Minnesota Timberwolves last year, would seek revenge in last night’s game, instead he showed maturity, acknowledging he was the problem, not Coach Mike D’Antoni. As the New York Post reported, he even gave helpful advice to the Knicks’ new Russian center Timofey Mozgov:
“I tell him to do the opposite like I did,” Milicic said. “I don’t know how it will be for him, if he plays a lot. When I didn’t play, I stepped aside. You need to work a lot and I didn’t do it. If he doesn’t play, practice hard.”
On one hand, it’s impressive that Darko not only was able to step back from the situation and honestly critique himself, but also that he was willing to reach out to assist one of our players. On the other hand, after he suffered through so many seasons on the Detroit Pistons where he didn’t get minutes partly due to not practicing hard and playing with fire, shouldn’t he have realized this long before he came to New York? If you’re not a key part of the rotation, so you sulk and go half-heartedly at practice, it ain’t surprising that you remain glued to the bench.
Still, it’s one thing for me to say this from afar, but when it’s happening to you, it’s hard to not have your emotion sapped. Like honestly, I’m always impressed when a really sucky team is still playing hard at the end of the season. I know, I know, we like to say, well, they’re getting paid big bucks, that’s not too much to ask. If you’re a younger player, sure, you’re still getting used to playing with the big boys and learning/improving your game, so that can/does give reason to play hard even towards the end. But if you’re a vet, do you really want to go all out and kill yourself just so you lose by fewer points? Or even if you win, big whoop, so then you’ve got 23 wins for the season instead of 22. Truth is, it’s probably better for your franchise if you’d lost ‘cuz it’d improve their draft position. Yes, it’s a depressing way to look at things, but I’m just playing devil’s advocate here.
Thus I can see if you’re a Darko or Eddy Curry and you feel like you’re in the doghouse and there’s no way to get out, what’s the point of practicing harder or putting in more effort if nothing will change? Of course, the truth is that things can change. And for Curry I can understand why he wouldn’t have been motivated in earlier years, but as I wrote a little while ago, since he’s up for a new contract this season, I would’ve thought that’d be a motivator even if you don’t think it’ll help your chances of getting playing time.
The point is it’s still impressive to get past yourself and see objectively at any point. Thus it was also really cool that Darko came up to D’Antoni and his brother Dan (an assistant coach) before the game to make amends.
“I said ‘It didn’t work out,’” Milicic said. “I wished it worked out. I loved New York. I thought it was going to work out but when I got there and saw how it was going to be it wasn’t for me. For me, last year I needed a lot of playing time to get my confidence back. Here it’s different, this year I came in shape.”
Better to learn the lesson late than never. And for the first time in a while, I find myself wishing the best for Darko on the rest of his NBA journey.]

CrushAlot wrote:Isn't that just a blog? The author signed the article but also put aka Short White Boy. I think you are posting an opinion of someone who has the same information as you or I. As far as Detroit goes Larry Brown hated Darko and the fact that Dumars didn't pick Melo. Darko isn't a prince but I don't think he was treated right and I think he could have helped by doing what he did in Minny last year. Darko admitted he was partially at fault and reached out to D'Antoni. D'Antoni took a cheap shot at him prior to this and admitted no fault. I think Darko is the better man in this situation and he wasn't the only guy in this spot with D'Antoni. Darko's demonstrating maturity and character doesn't mean that D'Antoni deserves an apology from posters that have pointed out his flaws with communicating, and getting the most out of players. Hopefully he learns from this and tries to change and become a better communicator and gets the most out of the players Walsh gets to help the team.

See that's the problem. You keep assuming that Mike did something wrong in all this when there is no evidence to back it up. That somehow he failed to communicate something to Darko that would've changed his attitude and performance. As if Mike didn't care if he played well or not. Come on man this lack of communication thing is an excuse by players who are looking at everyone else but themselves.

Darko did the right thing. 1st by changing his attitude and behavior with his new team and then admitting he was wrong with how he handled things in NY. That's as far as it goes. Any coach would've benched him for not going hard and sulking.

This notion that somehow Mike doesn't get the most out of his players is pure garbage. Are you kidding me??? You mean guys like Diaw? His history is one of maximizing the talents of players and getting them fatter contracts too. I'm sure Lee isn't complaining about his checks. So far only guys that really had something to say were guys that always have some excuse for why they aren't producing.

franco12 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Isn't that just a blog? The author signed the article but also put aka Short White Boy. I think you are posting an opinion of someone who has the same information as you or I. As far as Detroit goes Larry Brown hated Darko and the fact that Dumars didn't pick Melo. Darko isn't a prince but I don't think he was treated right and I think he could have helped by doing what he did in Minny last year. Darko admitted he was partially at fault and reached out to D'Antoni. D'Antoni took a cheap shot at him prior to this and admitted no fault. I think Darko is the better man in this situation and he wasn't the only guy in this spot with D'Antoni. Darko's demonstrating maturity and character doesn't mean that D'Antoni deserves an apology from posters that have pointed out his flaws with communicating, and getting the most out of players. Hopefully he learns from this and tries to change and become a better communicator and gets the most out of the players Walsh gets to help the team.

See that's the problem. You keep assuming that Mike did something wrong in all this when there is no evidence to back it up. That somehow he failed to communicate something to Darko that would've changed his attitude and performance. As if Mike didn't care if he played well or not. Come on man this lack of communication thing is an excuse by players who are looking at everyone else but themselves.

Darko did the right thing. 1st by changing his attitude and behavior with his new team and then admitting he was wrong with how he handled things in NY. That's as far as it goes. Any coach would've benched him for not going hard and sulking.

This notion that somehow Mike doesn't get the most out of his players is pure garbage. Are you kidding me??? You mean guys like Diaw? His history is one of maximizing the talents of players and getting them fatter contracts too. I'm sure Lee isn't complaining about his checks. So far only guys that really had something to say were guys that always have some excuse for why they aren't producing.

You are missing the point completely! No one is saying that MDA doesn't get some guys to perform, its that he has his BFFs and if Mike doesn't like you for whatever reason, no reason for you to show up and try.

Yes, he gets some guys to perform and put up huge, outsized numbers. But it seems that its just as often the case that he fails to communicate and coach certain types of players.

The irrefutable fact is Coach Rambis got Darko to produce, and Coach Mike could not.

I think the reason is Rambis was in a clearly rebuilding situation and knew he needed to work with what he had, while MDA, like so many others associated with the franchise last year, mailed it in and was waiting on the summer of 2010 to save him.

I think we got lucky in finding and getting Moz, but as was demonstrated in Paris, rebounding is an area of need for this team and a player like Darko might have been able to help. But because Mike was too busy dreaming of Lebron and Bosh, he never bothered to find out for this organization.

there is also irrefutable evidence from darko's mouth that he showed up to knicks camp last year out of shape. this came after miked let darko stay overseas longer because he and his wife were just having their first child and darko promised he would stay in shape back home, which he did not do. if i'm the coach, im not trusting darko after that either.

franco12 wrote:You are missing the point completely! No one is saying that MDA doesn't get some guys to perform, its that he has his BFFs and if Mike doesn't like you for whatever reason, no reason for you to show up and try.

Yes, he gets some guys to perform and put up huge, outsized numbers. But it seems that its just as often the case that he fails to communicate and coach certain types of players.

The irrefutable fact is Coach Rambis got Darko to produce, and Coach Mike could not.

I think the reason is Rambis was in a clearly rebuilding situation and knew he needed to work with what he had, while MDA, like so many others associated with the franchise last year, mailed it in and was waiting on the summer of 2010 to save him.

I think we got lucky in finding and getting Moz, but as was demonstrated in Paris, rebounding is an area of need for this team and a player like Darko might have been able to help. But because Mike was too busy dreaming of Lebron and Bosh, he never bothered to find out for this organization.

Mike gets more than just a few guys to play above their usual output and this failing to communicate crap is overblown. The coach makes the rotation and when you see you're not in it that's it. He's not gonna go down the line to explain to every single guy why he's not playing and not every player needs such coddling. Any of these players has the ability to go to coach and ask what he needs to do to get in the rotation, but really if they bust it in practice he's gonna notice.

As for Rambis, I think you give him too much credit. Most players going to a new team will have a better attitude, cuz they see that they were wanted and they put their best foot forward. Quite simply Darko actually tried harder and put in work.

Mike IMO wasn't mailing it in. You can't accuse a guy of trying to win too long into the season and playing the vets instead of realizing it was over and going with the kids and then say he mailed it in. It can't be both. You have no evidence that Mike Mailed it in thus guys like Darko didn't get to play. You think that Mike started to mail it in early in the season cuz he wouldn't play a guy that came in out of shape and had a bad attitude?

MS - darko was a lazy, self-centered jerk and did not deserve to play

Jordan Hill, who started playing basketball four years ago, was raw as they come

gimme a break

Sangfroid wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

franco12 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Isn't that just a blog? The author signed the article but also put aka Short White Boy. I think you are posting an opinion of someone who has the same information as you or I. As far as Detroit goes Larry Brown hated Darko and the fact that Dumars didn't pick Melo. Darko isn't a prince but I don't think he was treated right and I think he could have helped by doing what he did in Minny last year. Darko admitted he was partially at fault and reached out to D'Antoni. D'Antoni took a cheap shot at him prior to this and admitted no fault. I think Darko is the better man in this situation and he wasn't the only guy in this spot with D'Antoni. Darko's demonstrating maturity and character doesn't mean that D'Antoni deserves an apology from posters that have pointed out his flaws with communicating, and getting the most out of players. Hopefully he learns from this and tries to change and become a better communicator and gets the most out of the players Walsh gets to help the team.

See that's the problem. You keep assuming that Mike did something wrong in all this when there is no evidence to back it up. That somehow he failed to communicate something to Darko that would've changed his attitude and performance. As if Mike didn't care if he played well or not. Come on man this lack of communication thing is an excuse by players who are looking at everyone else but themselves.

Darko did the right thing. 1st by changing his attitude and behavior with his new team and then admitting he was wrong with how he handled things in NY. That's as far as it goes. Any coach would've benched him for not going hard and sulking.

This notion that somehow Mike doesn't get the most out of his players is pure garbage. Are you kidding me??? You mean guys like Diaw? His history is one of maximizing the talents of players and getting them fatter contracts too. I'm sure Lee isn't complaining about his checks. So far only guys that really had something to say were guys that always have some excuse for why they aren't producing.

You are missing the point completely! No one is saying that MDA doesn't get some guys to perform, its that he has his BFFs and if Mike doesn't like you for whatever reason, no reason for you to show up and try.

Yes, he gets some guys to perform and put up huge, outsized numbers. But it seems that its just as often the case that he fails to communicate and coach certain types of players.

The irrefutable fact is Coach Rambis got Darko to produce, and Coach Mike could not.

I think the reason is Rambis was in a clearly rebuilding situation and knew he needed to work with what he had, while MDA, like so many others associated with the franchise last year, mailed it in and was waiting on the summer of 2010 to save him.

I think we got lucky in finding and getting Moz, but as was demonstrated in Paris, rebounding is an area of need for this team and a player like Darko might have been able to help. But because Mike was too busy dreaming of Lebron and Bosh, he never bothered to find out for this organization.

there is also irrefutable evidence from darko's mouth that he showed up to knicks camp last year out of shape. this came after miked let darko stay overseas longer because he and his wife were just having their first child and darko promised he would stay in shape back home, which he did not do. if i'm the coach, im not trusting darko after that either.

There is one, unspoken word, that runs thru all posts on this issue. PROFESSIONALISM. We expect the players to show up in shape, having worked on their deficiencies, ready to give their all. We assume this because this is what we would do for free. For the love of the game. Unfortunately, this level of altruism has not yet reached all in the upper echelons of the game, leaving us with the Darko's and Curry's of the world. I cast my vote with Nixluva, hoping that my guys see the light and realize that the same clock is ticking for us all.