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Melo Deal Could Go Down As Early As Tonight To Knicks
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BRIGGS
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9/30/2010  11:36 PM
you know what--I cannot see this thing going on to long. It wont end up making sense for anyone involved. anyone can get hurt and melo isnt resigning with denver--so their best deal is now today.
what does denver gain by waiting towards the deadline? zero.
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Markji
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10/1/2010  12:13 AM
If we make the trade then:

Players going:

Chandler has to be gone as he plays the same position as Melo, is about the same size, etc. Chandler also becomes a RFA at the end of this season and he would tie up salary if we go for more FA.

Curry - for salary match

SG - One of Azubuike or Bill Walker would be included.

1 or 2 of Rautins; Fields; Jerome Jordan

Not Traded:

Douglas - we need him for back-up PG.
Mozgov; Mason; Felton can't be traded before December as we just signed them as FA.

If we can make this trade without giving up Gallo or Anthony Randolph, then we should do it.

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
BRIGGS
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10/1/2010  12:23 AM
Markji wrote:If we make the trade then:

Players going:

Chandler has to be gone as he plays the same position as Melo, is about the same size, etc. Chandler also becomes a RFA at the end of this season and he would tie up salary if we go for more FA.

Curry - for salary match

SG - One of Azubuike or Bill Walker would be included.

1 or 2 of Rautins; Fields; Jerome Jordan

Not Traded:

Douglas - we need him for back-up PG.
Mozgov; Mason; Felton can't be traded before December as we just signed them as FA.

If we can make this trade without giving up Gallo or Anthony Randolph, then we should do it.

I dont mind giving them 3 #1's if we can keep our players. If we give them 3#1's WC and take back some cash--perhaps by trading for a TPE--I can accept that. But I have a feeling we are going to lose Chandler Randolph Fields and picks. If we do--then we bit way to early and shouldve waited. Remember this is our team--we need the players not the picks.

RIP Crushalot😞
Finestrg
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10/1/2010  12:50 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/1/2010  7:58 AM
I still have a hard time seeing a deal going down w/o Gallo or AR involved as a centerpiece. I still say you draw a line in the sand on both guys though. One or the other -- they're not getting both. We'd have to start there then include Curry's expiring contract (half of which was already paid up front by the Knicks), Chandler, the 2014 #1 and possibly a 2nd rounder or 2. Now who knows, Denver might want us to flip both Gallo or AR AND Chandler for picks first and then send 2 mid to high level picks over in lieu of our young players in addition to other expiring contract filler & cash. If I were forced to make an immediate decision between the two, personally I would much rather send them Gallo over AR as I believe Randolph brings a little more to the table in terms of being a scorer/ball-handler/rebounder/shot-blocker where, as of right now, I view Gallo strictly as a shooter until he shows me otherwise. AR would be the better complimentary player alongside Melo over Gallinari I'm thinking..I also view Melo as a HUGE upgrade over Gallinari--I like Gallo a lot but under no circumstances would I let him hold up a deal for Carmelo Anthony. If we still even have interest at this point, that will be the deal that gets this done I'm thinking, not Chandler and picks. Denver's only real option may wind up being NY after all but I doubt they allow themselves to get fleeced in any deal. If it came down to Chandler & picks or nothing, I bet they take their chances and start the season with Carmelo and then see where it goes. They may want the extra time to evaluate the Knicks' players as well (between Melo and Denver management, Melo's the one who would really like to see something done quickly here)..I've also been thinking about something I read in Alan Hahn's Q&A session from this afternoon -- as much as we've improved, we still may not have that go-to scoring threat that at the end of the game, game on the line, can go get his own shot with ease (maybe Ray Felton but that's about it)...Hahn mentioned that as good as Amar'e is, he's not really that type of offensive player..It was a good point Hahn brought up -- Melo would definitely fill that role for us in a big way. It'd be nice to have a weapon like that. Just something to consider.

Heard David Aldridge say yesterday on NBA Game Time that Denver desperately wants to escape the luxury tax and was looking to include an extra salary or two in the Melo deal to ensure they come out under the wire and avoid paying LT (I guess they weren't that concerned about the luxury tax when they gave Al Harrington that rediculous long-term contract though, huh?). That player may be Aaron Afflalo. Aldridge hinted that Denver's insistence that Afflalo be included in the deal is what may have killed it on Jersey's end. While I could see that from NJ's perspective (they're loaded with wings, what would they do with Afflalo?), I think Afflalo's a pretty good player and someone the Knicks could definitely use esp. if we gave up Chandler..I've followed Afflalo closely since his days at UCLA -- he was actually one of the players I wanted at 23 in the '07 draft (thank God Chandler panned out)..AA's a solid player in almost every facet of the game for a SG: 6'5"/215, strong, fairly athletic, always a solid mid-range shooter who's now made himself into a very good 3 pt. shooter (43% last year on over 100 makes, right at 40% for his career---very quietly he's become quite the long range marksman, much improved since his college days where he was never terrible just not 40-something % efficent), can put it on the floor and play decent defense. Reminds me of Kelenna Azubuike in a lot of ways only this guy's healthy...Reasonable contract too -- set to make only $2M this year and $2.9M the following season (QO). It appears the Nuggets are looking to cut payroll for luxury tax purposes but under normal circumstances, this isn't the type of productive role player you easily give up on..And that's not a bad contract at all. Not for what he can do..I'm sure Denver would much rather jettison Balkman and his contract but there probably aren't any takers... DEN may also feel they have enough behind JR Smith with camp invitees Shawn Edwards and Gary Forbes to make Afflalo expendable (Forbes in particular has proved he was quite the scorer at U-Mass and he was pretty good in Italy last year. He's also a better shooter than some of his numbers may indicate--nice size at 6'7", good rebounder for the position and a very good slasher. Denver may really like this dude. Heck, I may be interested in Forbes if the Nuggets cut him loose).

If we could get Afflalo along with Carmelo Anthony, that's a phenomenal trade for us. Tell you what though, even if we don't wind up trading for Melo (say Denver remains steadfast in their refusal to deal with us or the Jersey deal rekindles at some point soon), I might jump in as an additional team willing to take on Afflalo's contract..It would hurt to lose out on Melo and see him go to the Nets but it'd be nice to come away with a useful piece in the process..Afflalo could be a nice fit here esp. if Azubuike's expected to miss a lot of time. He'd be nice insurance at one of our weaker positions right now. Just a thought..
Markji
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10/1/2010  6:15 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/1/2010  6:25 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
Markji wrote:If we make the trade then:

Players going:

Chandler has to be gone as he plays the same position as Melo, is about the same size, etc. Chandler also becomes a RFA at the end of this season and he would tie up salary if we go for more FA.

Curry - for salary match

SG - One of Azubuike or Bill Walker would be included.

1 or 2 of Rautins; Fields; Jerome Jordan

Not Traded:

Douglas - we need him for back-up PG.
Mozgov; Mason; Felton can't be traded before December as we just signed them as FA.

If we can make this trade without giving up Gallo or Anthony Randolph, then we should do it.

I dont mind giving them 3 #1's if we can keep our players. If we give them 3#1's WC and take back some cash--perhaps by trading for a TPE--I can accept that. But I have a feeling we are going to lose Chandler Randolph Fields and picks. If we do--then we bit way to early and shouldve waited. Remember this is our team--we need the players not the picks.

If Walsh is in charge, then I don't think he will give up too much. If Dolan gets involved, we are in trouble.

Finest - Heard David Aldridge say yesterday on NBA Game Time that Denver desperately wants to escape the luxury tax and was looking to include an extra salary or two in the deal to ensure they come out under the wire and avoid paying LT -- that player may be Aaron Afflalo. Aldridge hinted that Denver's insistence that Afflalo be included in the deal is what may have killed it on Jersey's end.

Good point on the extra salary. It could be JR Smith ($6 mil expiring) and/or Anthony Carter ($1.35 expiring + he is 35 yrs old PG) they want to unload. Then they could ask for Douglas also. No reason for Denver to trade Afflalo ($2 mil only 24 yrs old). I don't like taking these added players at all. It would screw up the team. I agree with Briggs on this point.
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
Knixkik
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10/1/2010  7:41 AM
Markji wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Markji wrote:If we make the trade then:

Players going:

Chandler has to be gone as he plays the same position as Melo, is about the same size, etc. Chandler also becomes a RFA at the end of this season and he would tie up salary if we go for more FA.

Curry - for salary match

SG - One of Azubuike or Bill Walker would be included.

1 or 2 of Rautins; Fields; Jerome Jordan

Not Traded:

Douglas - we need him for back-up PG.
Mozgov; Mason; Felton can't be traded before December as we just signed them as FA.

If we can make this trade without giving up Gallo or Anthony Randolph, then we should do it.

I dont mind giving them 3 #1's if we can keep our players. If we give them 3#1's WC and take back some cash--perhaps by trading for a TPE--I can accept that. But I have a feeling we are going to lose Chandler Randolph Fields and picks. If we do--then we bit way to early and shouldve waited. Remember this is our team--we need the players not the picks.

If Walsh is in charge, then I don't think he will give up too much. If Dolan gets involved, we are in trouble.

Finest - Heard David Aldridge say yesterday on NBA Game Time that Denver desperately wants to escape the luxury tax and was looking to include an extra salary or two in the deal to ensure they come out under the wire and avoid paying LT -- that player may be Aaron Afflalo. Aldridge hinted that Denver's insistence that Afflalo be included in the deal is what may have killed it on Jersey's end.

Good point on the extra salary. It could be JR Smith ($6 mil expiring) and/or Anthony Carter ($1.35 expiring + he is 35 yrs old PG) they want to unload. Then they could ask for Douglas also. No reason for Denver to trade Afflalo ($2 mil only 24 yrs old). I don't like taking these added players at all. It would screw up the team. I agree with Briggs on this point.

I don't see why Afflalo would be that guy. He will start at SG in denver and has a ton of upside as an ideal role player at that position with his shooting and defensive abilities. He's got that Bruce Bowen/Shane Battier make-up to him. If they were to include him it would be ideal for us. Even though JR Smith is a knucklehead, he could even be very valuable if MDA could get thru to him.
Finestrg
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10/1/2010  8:14 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/1/2010  8:21 AM
Knixkik wrote:
Markji wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Markji wrote:If we make the trade then:

Players going:

Chandler has to be gone as he plays the same position as Melo, is about the same size, etc. Chandler also becomes a RFA at the end of this season and he would tie up salary if we go for more FA.

Curry - for salary match

SG - One of Azubuike or Bill Walker would be included.

1 or 2 of Rautins; Fields; Jerome Jordan

Not Traded:

Douglas - we need him for back-up PG.
Mozgov; Mason; Felton can't be traded before December as we just signed them as FA.

If we can make this trade without giving up Gallo or Anthony Randolph, then we should do it.

I dont mind giving them 3 #1's if we can keep our players. If we give them 3#1's WC and take back some cash--perhaps by trading for a TPE--I can accept that. But I have a feeling we are going to lose Chandler Randolph Fields and picks. If we do--then we bit way to early and shouldve waited. Remember this is our team--we need the players not the picks.

If Walsh is in charge, then I don't think he will give up too much. If Dolan gets involved, we are in trouble.

Finest - Heard David Aldridge say yesterday on NBA Game Time that Denver desperately wants to escape the luxury tax and was looking to include an extra salary or two in the deal to ensure they come out under the wire and avoid paying LT -- that player may be Aaron Afflalo. Aldridge hinted that Denver's insistence that Afflalo be included in the deal is what may have killed it on Jersey's end.

Good point on the extra salary. It could be JR Smith ($6 mil expiring) and/or Anthony Carter ($1.35 expiring + he is 35 yrs old PG) they want to unload. Then they could ask for Douglas also. No reason for Denver to trade Afflalo ($2 mil only 24 yrs old). I don't like taking these added players at all. It would screw up the team. I agree with Briggs on this point.

I don't see why Afflalo would be that guy. He will start at SG in denver and has a ton of upside as an ideal role player at that position with his shooting and defensive abilities. He's got that Bruce Bowen/Shane Battier make-up to him. If they were to include him it would be ideal for us. Even though JR Smith is a knucklehead, he could even be very valuable if MDA could get thru to him.

I don't either yet they had him included in the trade (well I do actually -- they're looking to come out from under the luxury tax in the end and teams probably have no use for some of their other spare parts they'd probably much rather include in this Melo trade like Anthony Carter, Ro Balkman, etc.). I don't know if AA starts over JR Smith though he may..And I don't see us dealing for Smith -- while talented I agree he is the type of me-first knucklehead (go ask K-mart what he thinks of Smith along with a security guard trashing the inside of his car as a practical joke last year) that MDA would just assume avoid now that they completely changed the culture here..Not to mention we'd have to do some major finagling to add Smith's $6M salary for this year --- with Afflalo on the other hand, we could probably add him with little or no problem -- we're talking just under $2M and we're still under the cap by over a million I believe, no? Either way -- as part of a Melo blockbuster or a smaller seperate deal that could facilitate a Melo trade (esp. if it becomes apparent he's not coming here) -- I'm interested in Afflalo if they really have him on the block.
SupremeCommander
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10/1/2010  8:33 AM
if you told me that it would be Melo and Amare heading into this season... hell yes
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fishmike
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10/1/2010  8:34 AM
it seems that 50% of Curry's contract is already paid. That plus $3mm to offset the trade kicker can offer Denver some savings.

Walsh's biggest skill as a GM has always been making trades. It will be interesting to see what we give up

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
grillco
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10/1/2010  9:06 AM
Mray20 wrote:
OasisBU wrote:If it includes both then we aren't gaining much - especially if we ship the #1 we are rumored to be acquiring in 2011.

I could see shipping one (preferably AR in my opinion) and EC + the draft pick. Sending both basically guts the team and isn't worth it.

I'm right there with you that would just be a wash out not a gain, we need depth on this team. I'm curious though cause most people are saying wilson will be traded for a first rounder, now why would the Nuggets think a first rounder would be better than just getting Wilson. It's not like the Nba drafts are deep anymore unless you're guaranteed a top 2 or 3 pick I would take Wilson Chandler over that any day.

That's been my thing all along. Not that I want to trade both of them, but AR and Chandler's combined numbers are a few less points, but more boards than Melo with more defense. Danilo and Wilson are more than Melo's ppg about 11 rpg and still added defense from Wilson. The draft picks are crap shoots, so taking them over proven young NBA ready and playing talent is confusing at best. It seems like Denver doesn't have a logical plan in place, which is likely part of why Melo wants out. I mean adding Harrington, but not a strong defensive big man (especially in light of Martin either being too injury prone or being allowed to leave).
grillco
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10/1/2010  9:22 AM
OasisBU wrote:
Mray20 wrote:
OasisBU wrote:If it includes both then we aren't gaining much - especially if we ship the #1 we are rumored to be acquiring in 2011.

I could see shipping one (preferably AR in my opinion) and EC + the draft pick. Sending both basically guts the team and isn't worth it.

I'm right there with you that would just be a wash out not a gain, we need depth on this team. I'm curious though cause most people are saying wilson will be traded for a first rounder, now why would the Nuggets think a first rounder would be better than just getting Wilson. It's not like the Nba drafts are deep anymore unless you're guaranteed a top 2 or 3 pick I would take Wilson Chandler over that any day.

I think that shows Wilson might not have as much value as some fans place on him. Not sure though. I might roll the dice on a first rounder over him if the pick was coming from a team I thought would net me a top 10 selection. I guess it all depends. Maybe they want a guy like AR or Gallo as a starting piece and then want a pick to fill out the roster later I could see that (plus it's a great trading chip).

Forget fans value, what about his stats? Chandler's not really featured in the offense, but he gets his points and he's a strong defender. I think he's undervalued for what he does. Seeing the players that Denver was willing to take in the Nets deal, I think they don't have a clue about what any of the players are worth. Is AK even as good or better than Danilo, AR, or Wilson? If so, it isn't by much. And the Nets latest 1st round pick who hasn't played a single game, how does he rank above two guys averaging 15 or ppg, 5 rpg, and seemingly improving. It seems Denver is devaluing what the Knicks have to offer because they don't want to trade Melo where he wants to go, even if they can get good players in return. Again, if he's willing, he can force their hand, but it means being reviled by most fans.
Finestrg
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10/1/2010  9:23 AM
SupremeCommander wrote:if you told me that it would be Melo and Amare heading into this season... hell yes

Exactly.
fishmike
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10/1/2010  9:31 AM
Finestrg wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:if you told me that it would be Melo and Amare heading into this season... hell yes

Exactly.

thats the other thing... ends justify means right? Its looking more and more like Mosgov is going to be a good player in the NBA. You figure the one guy who stays is Gallo, the rest of the roster is gutted and we get Mosgov, Amare, Felton and Carmelo in one offseason after 10 years of losing? Well thats pretty freakin good.

The thing is I do believe this group is high ceiling and I am willing to wait on them. Again... I guess it all depends on the trade. Thats Walsh's strength as a GM for sure.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Allanfan20
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10/1/2010  9:44 AM
http://www.knicksvision.com/2010/10/the-aftermath/

Well at least Knicksvision is manning up, albeit unreliable. I probably wont read his stuff much more, but I will share a beer with him if he comes to a UK get together.

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Finestrg
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10/1/2010  10:22 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/1/2010  10:24 AM
fishmike wrote:
Finestrg wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:if you told me that it would be Melo and Amare heading into this season... hell yes

Exactly.

thats the other thing... ends justify means right? Its looking more and more like Mosgov is going to be a good player in the NBA. You figure the one guy who stays is Gallo, the rest of the roster is gutted and we get Mosgov, Amare, Felton and Carmelo in one offseason after 10 years of losing? Well thats pretty freakin good.

The thing is I do believe this group is high ceiling and I am willing to wait on them. Again... I guess it all depends on the trade. Thats Walsh's strength as a GM for sure.

Me too Fish...I could honestly go either way -- make a reasonable trade for Carmelo OR see how this group we have here pans out..Perfect world -- if the East remained the same as last year i.e. Boston gets a year older, Wade went back to Miami with say only Mike Miller, LeBron went back to Cleveland, Bosh resigned with the Raptors, Atlanta & Orlando remained the same, etc.. I wouldn't even be as interested in Melo..Don't get me wrong I'd have interest--the man's a top NBA player, but not to the degree I have now...Part of me doesn't want to finish behind Miami year after year for the next 5 or so seasons...Miami raised the bar pretty damn high -- I'd like to see us eventually field a team that can stand toe to toe with them or pretty close..We signed Amar'e to a 5 year contract and the clock started ticking as soon as he signed on the dotted line..Getting Melo w/o gutting the team basically ensures that we'll have some good battles with them for the forseeable future..Whether you agree with that thinking or not, that's the flip side of the coin when it comes to acquiring Melo..
nyk4ever
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10/1/2010  10:31 AM
funny stuff about what he said regarding the reponses in several forums :

Knicks Vision
The Aftermath

View Comments

Last night I reported that I had heard that Melo was possibly going to be dealt that night. He wasn’t. And I have no regrets.

Although I got trashed a bit in forums like RealGM and Pro Sports Daily, it’s no harm. Heard some pretty good disses though. Here are some posts I’ve taken notes on from last night:

Ultimate Knicks Forum:

“C’mon man, KNICKS VISION? This site makes Isola look like Edward R. Murrow.”

* Thought this one was pretty funny.

“I read a paragraph a week ago and decided to never read his blog…ever!”

* That’s fair – everyone has their own opinions.

“Both ESPN and Miranda are just taking some big swings, hoping to connect and go long, IMO.”

* I think this is a fine point, but I wasn’t trying to take a big swing. I was just reporting what I heard, which is what ESPN tends to do. So I definitely understand where this guy’s coming from.

ProSpsortsDaily Forums

“this is pure garbage.” “it truly is”

* Again, just reporting what I heard and analyzing it.

Real GM Forums

“I’ve never heard of knicksvision.com. How reliable is this guy? He looks like a wannabe Tommy Dee without the SNY backing. -Jitpal”

* Well, Jitpal, obviously not too reliable in your eyes.

Anyway, I’ve learned that in blogging (and life), you have ups and downs: this was a down. No one wants their most successful day to be as a result of a post with false implications, but sometimes it’s worth realizing that bad publicity is better than no publicity.

No worries though, that’s not my goal here at Knicks Vision. I sincerely do want to give you the best information out there on the Knicks, but if I make a mistake once in a while, bear with me, it’s a learning process.

Just wanted to clear up any foul blood. If you have any comments, questions, love or hate about last night or the Knicks, direct them to my e-mail knicksvision @ gmail dot com. For the next seven days, as a result of this yesterday’s “debacle,” feel free to ask me anything via email. All questions will be answered to the best of my abilities and will be answered in sixteen hours.

So yes, I’ve lost a tremendous amount of Knicks fans who may never come back to the site, but I come back with a new fire. Knicks Vision will be better than ever.

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
freeskier
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10/1/2010  10:47 AM
seems like a more professional response than Isola's...
Moonangie
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10/1/2010  10:55 AM
BRIGGS wrote:you know what--I cannot see this thing going on to long. It wont end up making sense for anyone involved. anyone can get hurt and melo isnt resigning with denver--so their best deal is now today.
what does denver gain by waiting towards the deadline? zero.

I agree, but only IF Melo is seriously not going to sign anywhere but NY. If that's the case and he let's the Nuggs know it, they'd be fools not to take what we offer. I don't think it's clear yet that Melo is drawing his line in the sand.
Rookie
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10/1/2010  10:58 AM
timing is everything....hard to believe anything will happen while the Knicks are traveling abroad and bonding. There might be talks going on....but i doubt there will be any leaks until they return....melo will sell alot of t-shirts and billboards on buses so I can believe that the media dept at msg is drooling...there is always the money side to the game and denver's new GM has seemingly pissed off his players, coach and GM's around the league in record time. Could be bargain time as he tries to clean up his mess and salvage what's left of his reputation....else his reign will be short lived.
BRIGGS
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10/1/2010  10:59 AM
If you were a billionaire--do you think you would personally be pressured/forced by another club to trade melo to them? My bet is very wealthy people would rather be stuck with much less than be *punked* so to say. You don't think smart people like that are watching Newsday on a daily mission pumping this jargon out? It must be noise towards Melo's people saying we have what they want but they still wont comply. But do you really think that matters to a dude like that--or makes him even more dead against him moving Carmelo to the Knicks. The Knicks werent quiet here--they were loud and pushy
RIP Crushalot😞
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