Moonangie wrote:This argument has been debunked a number of times on this forum, including in a few interviews with Donnie himself. The draft is NOT the only way to build a contender (e.g., Boston Celtics, Miami Heat, et al). What's more, we have already removed the possibility of building through the draft by signing Amare to a five year deal. That means we will not have a lottery pick anytime soon.

We are going to build through FA by adding a second star and then attracting veteran guys who still want a chip to sign for MLE or less.

This hasn't been debunked. I could be really snarky and just leave the post like this:

1. I think you're forgetting that the Celtics drafted Paul Pierce.
2. I think you're forgetting that the Heat drafted Dwyane Wade.

But I'll add some color: Who is the Knicks' Paul Pierce? Who is the Knicks' Dwyane Wade? The answer has to be Gallo and Randolph. Thankfully, we got Randolph on his rookie contract so I will pretend we drafted him. But people are talking about trading him and Gallo away.

Moonangie, and anyone else arguing that you can build a team through FA, go through the history of NBA championships and find the MVP of the championship team. In more than 75% of those teams, the MVP was drafted by the team. (I have a spreadsheet showing this at home and I'll post later if necessary).

nyk4ever wrote:just because we didn't draft guys doesn't mean we don't have young players. we have one of the youngest teams in the league and we just added to that mix a perennial two-way all-star and have the capspace to add another. IF we got melo in FA, how can you tell me that a team of felton, gallo, ar, melo and amar'e won't compete in this league. i seriously don't understand how ANYONE can grumble about that team.

If we get melo? Thats a big "if", isnt it nyk4ever?

Also, we are talking about two different things. I am talking about building a championship dynasty and you are talking about competing in a few games during the season and then taking a long summer vacation in the Bahamas.

Another point that you may not be seeing is when you draft a player, that player is significantly more likely to re-sign with his original team. Sometimes, yes, the player signs elsewhere (i.e. LeBron) however most of the time they stay. Just having a young team is not the same as building your team from the draft. Also, do not underestimate the power of bird-rights. If you could give a player the best deal available that means alot.

This is moot point anyway. I hope I am wrong about the direction I believe the Knicks team is heading. The Knicks are trying to build through free agency and I will root for them... even if I know this most likely means we will be stuck for atleast another 7-10years.

nyk4ever wrote:

subzero0 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:just because we didn't draft guys doesn't mean we don't have young players. we have one of the youngest teams in the league and we just added to that mix a perennial two-way all-star and have the capspace to add another. IF we got melo in FA, how can you tell me that a team of felton, gallo, ar, melo and amar'e won't compete in this league. i seriously don't understand how ANYONE can grumble about that team.

If we get melo? Thats a big "if", isnt it nyk4ever?

Also, we are talking about two different things. I am talking about building a championship dynasty and you are talking about competing in a few games during the season and then taking a long summer vacation in the Bahamas.

Another point that you may not be seeing is when you draft a player, that player is significantly more likely to re-sign with his original team. Sometimes, yes, the player signs elsewhere (i.e. LeBron) however most of the time they stay. Just having a young team is not the same as building your team from the draft. Also, do not underestimate the power of bird-rights. If you could give a player the best deal available that means alot.

This is moot point anyway. I hope I am wrong about the direction I believe the Knicks team is heading. The Knicks are trying to build through free agency and I will root for them... even if I know this most likely means we will be stuck for atleast another 7-10years.

while you are right the melo part is an "if" i don't think it'll really matter all that much in the end. i think the core of felton/chandler/gallo/amar'e/ar can really go places. so if we strike out on melo in FA next year, we use the money elsewhere and fill in what we need to fill in. im a big believer in the talent and potential of both gallo/ar. i think in time they will be 2 max FAs that we keep.

I hope you're right nyk4ever, I hope you're right...

metra wrote:

Moonangie wrote:This argument has been debunked a number of times on this forum, including in a few interviews with Donnie himself. The draft is NOT the only way to build a contender (e.g., Boston Celtics, Miami Heat, et al). What's more, we have already removed the possibility of building through the draft by signing Amare to a five year deal. That means we will not have a lottery pick anytime soon.

We are going to build through FA by adding a second star and then attracting veteran guys who still want a chip to sign for MLE or less.

This hasn't been debunked. I could be really snarky and just leave the post like this:

1. I think you're forgetting that the Celtics drafted Paul Pierce.
2. I think you're forgetting that the Heat drafted Dwyane Wade.

But I'll add some color: Who is the Knicks' Paul Pierce? Who is the Knicks' Dwyane Wade? The answer has to be Gallo and Randolph. Thankfully, we got Randolph on his rookie contract so I will pretend we drafted him. But people are talking about trading him and Gallo away.

Moonangie, and anyone else arguing that you can build a team through FA, go through the history of NBA championships and find the MVP of the championship team. In more than 75% of those teams, the MVP was drafted by the team. (I have a spreadsheet showing this at home and I'll post later if necessary).

No need to post a spreadsheet. But Pierce was caca in Beantown until Ray Ray and KG got there. D-Wade didn't win shyte until he had Shaq in his prime. And now he has LeMoron and rastaman as his side kicks, both acquired via FA.

So we didn't draft our star via FA. But please don't sit there and try to say that we have no hope of building a contender through FA. If we add Melo this summer, we are a bona fide contender in the ECF. If we can trade for CP3 the following year, Miami can hold our nut sacks in their collective lips, because they will be going down on us for a few years.

If we had it to do all over again starting after Allan H retired, then yeah, building through the draft would be a preferred route. But alas, we have an idiot owner and a media market that causes rookie GMs to starphuck their way to mediocrity.

We have no idea what what our 2011 needs are, but we do know we have 4-5 guys who might be role players, starters, or all stars and we dont know which will be which.

Walsh made a good point about Gallo, Douglas and Chandler regarding last year. He said people dont realize how good they are because we havent seen them play with talent. This year we will

Personally, I think Gallo has the most overall potential on this team when considering leadership qualities, work ethic, physical tools and potential.

I see Gallo as possibly being a Nowitzki with a swagger to him, an edge. I don't think Gallo will ever be considered soft, a label Nowitzki has had to fight off for years. I am not gonna start popping off stats but Gallo to me is future captain, future go to guy, and Mr. Last Shot, potentially.

I see Randolph as maybe a step below Garnett in his prime, or maybe more likely a step or two above Odom. A jack of all trades master of none. I really see him more as a secondary piece that isn't gonna carry a team but the guy that is a great support man. Think like a Pippen/Odom/Caron Butler type player who can block shots and play center.

Douglas I see as a guy that fills that Barbosa/John Starks type of role off the bench. Seems like Douglas is much more composed then Starks ever was. Douglas maybe strikes me as a Derek Fisher attitude in a John Starks combo role.

Mozgov I know nothing about. @ 7-1 270, if he can give me shotblocking and rebounding and physicality in the middle a la Brendan Haywood I'm good.

Landry Fields for some reason reminds me of Doug Christie. I can take a role player like that.

Walker maybe a scorer off the bench.

Rautins maybe a shooter but I hope he can develop a bit like Reddick is doing in Orlando.

I saved Chandler for last because I am the most disappointed in him. I have really soured on him because I used to see him as an Iguodala/Marion/Butler type of player. I am thinking he is a tier or two below that level. He has not improved his shooting making him a liability. He coasts a bit, and seems to be content just playing in the flow of the game and never wanting to impose his will. He has no edge that will take him to that next level, imo.

What I think most disappointments me about Wil is his durability. The man is built like an army tank and can never get through a full season and seems to get hurt around the same time EVERY year. You can't depend on that. Wil would probably make a great versatile 6-7 man off the bench.