martin wrote:The C is earned, not given.

Agreed. I'd like to see Gallo and Amare (and maybe Felton) earn it.

skeng wrote:

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:At least there is no longer anyone on this site that will argue with me that the team is not rbuilding. Walsh has proven that heis a smart dude he knows eventually if you are going to win you need true leadership. Age of that leader does not matter, but you do need a leader. If amare and felton etc don't produce a couple leaders I guarantee that walsh will try to find one in the next year or so(remember he went after Kidd last year). This is a similar promise to when I told you we would get younger and that walsh understands the importance of height. Unfortunately we are rebuilding and sometimes you have to wait to acqire one or wait for one to emerge.

The team isnt rebuilding. You dont sign Amare to a 100 million deal if you are rebuilding when you have 2 young forwards.

dude, you bring down the collect IQ of this site and forums by a LOT.

+1

+2

I guess Amare can't influence these two guys in a positive way..

+3. More thought, please. Less emotion.

Panos wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

skeng wrote:

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:At least there is no longer anyone on this site that will argue with me that the team is not rbuilding. Walsh has proven that heis a smart dude he knows eventually if you are going to win you need true leadership. Age of that leader does not matter, but you do need a leader. If amare and felton etc don't produce a couple leaders I guarantee that walsh will try to find one in the next year or so(remember he went after Kidd last year). This is a similar promise to when I told you we would get younger and that walsh understands the importance of height. Unfortunately we are rebuilding and sometimes you have to wait to acqire one or wait for one to emerge.

The team isnt rebuilding. You dont sign Amare to a 100 million deal if you are rebuilding when you have 2 young forwards.

dude, you bring down the collect IQ of this site and forums by a LOT.

+1

+2

I guess Amare can't influence these two guys in a positive way..

+3. More thought, please. Less emotion.

I don't think its nice to be ganging up on Bip like that.

If he wants respect, maybe he should post more.

firefly wrote:

Panos wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

skeng wrote:

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:At least there is no longer anyone on this site that will argue with me that the team is not rbuilding. Walsh has proven that heis a smart dude he knows eventually if you are going to win you need true leadership. Age of that leader does not matter, but you do need a leader. If amare and felton etc don't produce a couple leaders I guarantee that walsh will try to find one in the next year or so(remember he went after Kidd last year). This is a similar promise to when I told you we would get younger and that walsh understands the importance of height. Unfortunately we are rebuilding and sometimes you have to wait to acqire one or wait for one to emerge.

The team isnt rebuilding. You dont sign Amare to a 100 million deal if you are rebuilding when you have 2 young forwards.

dude, you bring down the collect IQ of this site and forums by a LOT.

+1

+2

I guess Amare can't influence these two guys in a positive way..

+3. More thought, please. Less emotion.

I don't think its nice to be ganging up on Bip like that.

If he wants respect, maybe he should post more.

I wasn't knocking Bip. I was disagreeing with Anubis. Amare's influence on the team, especially Randolph, could be huge. Amare has overcome some tough mf'ing obstacles - his upbringing, micro fracture, eye problems. That shows character. Having a guy like that pushing you in practice and being a strong presence on the team doesn't inhibit one's development, imho.

Also, isn't Bip a female? I was of the belief that we we're adressing Anubis, hence the "dude" from Martin's post.

Bippity10 wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:At least there is no longer anyone on this site that will argue with me that the team is not rbuilding. Walsh has proven that heis a smart dude he knows eventually if you are going to win you need true leadership. Age of that leader does not matter, but you do need a leader. If amare and felton etc don't produce a couple leaders I guarantee that walsh will try to find one in the next year or so(remember he went after Kidd last year). This is a similar promise to when I told you we would get younger and that walsh understands the importance of height. Unfortunately we are rebuilding and sometimes you have to wait to acqire one or wait for one to emerge.

The team isnt rebuilding. You dont sign Amare to a 100 million deal if you are rebuilding when you have 2 young forwards.

dude, you bring down the collect IQ of this site and forums by a LOT.

So paying Amare 100 million dollars on a non-insured deal is rebuilding? Knicks are in the same mode they have always been in and thay is win NOW.

I guess by your standards Chicago is rebuilding too. They are full of young talent and overpaid for Carlos Boozer.

For the record, sucking for years, hoarding draft picks and hoping you hit the lottery and draft the next Durant or Lebron or Wade is not the only way to rebuild. That's just the one dimensional fans view of rebuilding. It is of course one way to rebuild. To me rebuilding is getting rid of one core and replacing it with a new core, which is clearly what we have done. Now I ask the question again for those "we should have built through the draft" people. If we had built through the draft the past two seasons could Walsh have come away with:

1.) One proven star
2.) Two 3rd year players who are amongst the top 5 or 6 potential players in their draft
3.) A scoring machine combo guard
4.) And 5 or 6 other guys with upside

Would our roster look any younger, better and have more potential then we have right now? Would we have more flexibility to trade and sign free agents? Your roster right now is exactly what the rebuilding fans wanted. The only difference is that David Stern didn't call their names on draft night. Get out of your box and realize what you have in front of you.

Your argument would make sense if the signing of Amare had us strapped out over the cap for the next 10 years. Even after Amare this team has the flexibility to make trades, sign free-agents and can work it's way back into the draft. If we built through the draft and you get 1 or 2 stars that eventually become the same caliber as Amare, guess what? You are going to have to pay them max money as well. So what is the difference??? In order to win in the league you have to have stars. Whether they are acquired in the draft, via trade or via free-agency is irrelevant. It's still rebuilding when you gut your roster and start over with a new core. Especially one that doesn't have a productive 30 year old on the roster.

And further more: What does signing Amare have to do with having 2 young forwards on the roster?

- Sucking and hoarding draft picks allows one to make trades for star players. Most stars arent changing teams through Free Agency.

- Rebuilding teams remain flexible by giving deals that are movable in the future. Amare's 100 million dollar contract is not going to be movable especially since it is uninsured. Did I mention Amare will be 28 this November and has had mircrofracture surgery. We are basically stuck with Amare until the end of his contract. We can only hope he can stay healthy and not require surgery.

I just basically see rebuilding as a team that is not trying to win now but instead building for the future and playing their young guys heavy minutes.

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:These yoots are vets. They have been in the league for some years now. Chandler is going into his 4th year. Gallo going into his third. AR is also going into his third year. Mozgov is a 24 year old who played professionally abroad. Amare and Felton are going to be the leaders. I personally think Chandler should be given the "C" on his uni with Amare.

only on the back of his shirt as a part of his name.

Why? Martin, I think Chandler is very deserving of a Captains role. He has a quite demeanor similar to Eli Manning. He may not be a rah-rah guy but he has that quite coolness. Besides I think giving him the C on the chest will make him more vocal make him more confident. After all he is the second best player on the team hands down.

skeng wrote:

firefly wrote:

Panos wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

skeng wrote:

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:At least there is no longer anyone on this site that will argue with me that the team is not rbuilding. Walsh has proven that heis a smart dude he knows eventually if you are going to win you need true leadership. Age of that leader does not matter, but you do need a leader. If amare and felton etc don't produce a couple leaders I guarantee that walsh will try to find one in the next year or so(remember he went after Kidd last year). This is a similar promise to when I told you we would get younger and that walsh understands the importance of height. Unfortunately we are rebuilding and sometimes you have to wait to acqire one or wait for one to emerge.

The team isnt rebuilding. You dont sign Amare to a 100 million deal if you are rebuilding when you have 2 young forwards.

dude, you bring down the collect IQ of this site and forums by a LOT.

+1

+2

I guess Amare can't influence these two guys in a positive way..

+3. More thought, please. Less emotion.

I don't think its nice to be ganging up on Bip like that.

If he wants respect, maybe he should post more.

I wasn't knocking Bip. I was disagreeing with Anubis. Amare's influence on the team, especially Randolph, could be huge. Amare has overcome some tough mf'ing obstacles - his upbringing, micro fracture, eye problems. That shows character. Having a guy like that pushing you in practice and being a strong presence on the team doesn't inhibit one's development, imho.

Also, isn't Bip a female? I was of the belief that we we're adressing Anubis, hence the "dude" from Martin's post.

Did mofo just call me a female?

- Sucking and hoarding draft picks allows one to make trades for star players. Most stars arent changing teams through Free Agency.

- Rebuilding teams remain flexible by giving deals that are movable in the future. Amare's 100 million dollar contract is not going to be movable especially since it is uninsured. Did I mention Amare will be 28 this November and has had mircrofracture surgery. We are basically stuck with Amare until the end of his contract. We can only hope he can stay healthy and not require surgery.

I just basically see rebuilding as a team that is not trying to win now but instead building for the future and playing their young guys heavy minutes.

1.) Sucking and hoarding draft picks-Again I ask, if we sucked and made draft picks wouldn't our line-up look pretty much like it does today, with a bunch of young guys with talent and upset??? Does sucking in the lottery even guarantee you finding someone as good as Amare???

2.) How have we lost flexibility?? Whatever star we signed this summer we would not be looking to deal them anyway. The purpose of going after a star level player was to have them as part of the team for the next 4 or 5 years as we build. Max money was going to be paid no matter who it was. Your logic here is flawed. We are still under the cap for next year and still have a bunch of young guys with potential. And if they reach that potential they are all tradeable and keepable. So of the rest of the players, besides Eddie Curry, who is untradeable?? How are we hamstrung in anyway.

3.) We are one of the youngest teams in the league. Who on this team is going to be buried behind a vet??? Before you say Randolph and Gallinari let's have a little math lesson.

-Between the three front court positions there are 144 minutes
-Amare plays about 35 and let's say Turiaf and Mozgov split 30. That equals 65 total minutes
-That leaves us 79 minutes in the frontcourt.
-If Gallinari and Randolph play well there will be unlimited minutes for them. If they are stars, one can get 40 minutes and the other 39. If they play up to their potential they can play even more if they are able, as their improved play will help them start to eat into the minutes we just allocated to Turiaf and Mozgov. It's up to them. Nobody is in their way. This is a fallacy created in your mind and not based on any type of real math. Amare is a true PF post up that can play the center and can also take it outside. Gallinari is a true shooter who can get to the rim and play SF and PF. Randolph is a slasher that may develop a jumper who ultimately can play the 3, 4 or 5. It's a perfect mix in the frontcourt and all 3 compliment each other perfectly. Their versatility is working in their favor to give all of them major minutes. But if they don't perform well. If Gallinari slumps or Randolph goes in the tank, it won't be Amare taking their minutes. It will be Bill Walker and Landry Fields and Wilson Chandler. Are any of them old grizzled vets? The minutes are there for the taking. Let the best young guy win.

Take a deep breath and realize what you have. Just because we did not use draft picks doesn't mean we didn't just put together a very young, exciting and up and coming team. If Gallinari and Randolph truly reach their potential there will be no more "we should have built through the draft" nonsense. If the stars align you have Amare, another max player next year and then Gallinari and Randolph hit their stride..........If the stars align you just rebuilt overnight. I will pray to those stars. By the way these are the same stars that the perrenial lottery teams pray to each year when they hope they draft the next Jordan each year.