AnubisADL wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Winning vs true contenders. Kobe/Jordan had Phil Jax. Winning teams that make appearances in finals but lose don't count in my book.

We could go that route.

Did David Robinson, Wade or Shaq win scoring titles and NBA titles the same year?

The best players in the league usually win the titles. Do you project Randolph and Golla being top 5 players?

The best teams win titles. You need the star player and the star player needs a supporting cast. Even then nothing is guaranteed. Look at the Sonics in the 90s (losing to the Bulls)-- Kemp and Payton, where are they without Detlef Shrempf and Sam Perkins? If you have the ability to add Melo without losing assets and next year you have assets to get the third star (Chris Paul) or keep a combination of high end players like Gallo and Randolph, why starphuck yourself right now for third place in the East? Anything can happen, but Felton, Melo and Amare probably don't beat the Heat, Celtics or Magic in a playoff series.

You have to pay for guarantees. Trading for Carmelo GUARANTEES we get him. If he signs somewhere else and Gallo and Randolph dont pan out we are stuck in mediocrity for the foreseeable future with Amare killing our cap.

We keep getting burned by waiting for guys to fall into our lap.

Melo and Amare would be the 2nd best SF and PF in the East. I think we could hang with the Celtics and Magic for sure.

There is NOTHING exciting about BUYING a team thats getting bounced from round 2 every year. That just doesnt interest me.

Melo is NOT the superstar you stick role players around and win titles with.

There are 2 ways to win titles in the NBA. One is by having 2 superstars. We are talking a pair of top ten players like Kobe and Gasol, KG and Pierce, Shaq and Kobe/Wade, Jordan and Pippen...

The other way is with true depth and teamwork. I think Detroit showed if you can put 5 guys with size, skill, defense and toughness together you beat any team.

You need top flight talent at every position. You need 6-7 guys deep who create mismatches on both ends, who can beat you with size, with skill, with defense, on the glass.

Trading you 6'10 versatile young players for a scorer who does little to nothing else sets you back, not forward. We dont have a 27 year old Patrick Ewing. Melo isnt the "final piece." Pass

fishmike wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Winning vs true contenders. Kobe/Jordan had Phil Jax. Winning teams that make appearances in finals but lose don't count in my book.

We could go that route.

Did David Robinson, Wade or Shaq win scoring titles and NBA titles the same year?

The best players in the league usually win the titles. Do you project Randolph and Golla being top 5 players?

The best teams win titles. You need the star player and the star player needs a supporting cast. Even then nothing is guaranteed. Look at the Sonics in the 90s (losing to the Bulls)-- Kemp and Payton, where are they without Detlef Shrempf and Sam Perkins? If you have the ability to add Melo without losing assets and next year you have assets to get the third star (Chris Paul) or keep a combination of high end players like Gallo and Randolph, why starphuck yourself right now for third place in the East? Anything can happen, but Felton, Melo and Amare probably don't beat the Heat, Celtics or Magic in a playoff series.

You have to pay for guarantees. Trading for Carmelo GUARANTEES we get him. If he signs somewhere else and Gallo and Randolph dont pan out we are stuck in mediocrity for the foreseeable future with Amare killing our cap.

We keep getting burned by waiting for guys to fall into our lap.

Melo and Amare would be the 2nd best SF and PF in the East. I think we could hang with the Celtics and Magic for sure.

BRILLIANT! You are officially James Dolan. You have just given up all your assets and chance to improve to consistantly be 2nd best.

There is NOTHING exciting about BUYING a team thats getting bounced from round 2 every year. That just doesnt interest me.

Melo is NOT the superstar you stick role players around and win titles with.

There are 2 ways to win titles in the NBA. One is by having 2 superstars. We are talking a pair of top ten players like Kobe and Gasol, KG and Pierce, Shaq and Kobe/Wade, Jordan and Pippen...

The other way is with true depth and teamwork. I think Detroit showed if you can put 5 guys with size, skill, defense and toughness together you beat any team.

You need top flight talent at every position. You need 6-7 guys deep who create mismatches on both ends, who can beat you with size, with skill, with defense, on the glass.

Trading you 6'10 versatile young players for a scorer who does little to nothing else sets you back, not forward. We dont have a 27 year old Patrick Ewing. Melo isnt the "final piece." Pass

I support this message.

fishmike wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Winning vs true contenders. Kobe/Jordan had Phil Jax. Winning teams that make appearances in finals but lose don't count in my book.

We could go that route.

Did David Robinson, Wade or Shaq win scoring titles and NBA titles the same year?

The best players in the league usually win the titles. Do you project Randolph and Golla being top 5 players?

The best teams win titles. You need the star player and the star player needs a supporting cast. Even then nothing is guaranteed. Look at the Sonics in the 90s (losing to the Bulls)-- Kemp and Payton, where are they without Detlef Shrempf and Sam Perkins? If you have the ability to add Melo without losing assets and next year you have assets to get the third star (Chris Paul) or keep a combination of high end players like Gallo and Randolph, why starphuck yourself right now for third place in the East? Anything can happen, but Felton, Melo and Amare probably don't beat the Heat, Celtics or Magic in a playoff series.

You have to pay for guarantees. Trading for Carmelo GUARANTEES we get him. If he signs somewhere else and Gallo and Randolph dont pan out we are stuck in mediocrity for the foreseeable future with Amare killing our cap.

We keep getting burned by waiting for guys to fall into our lap.

Melo and Amare would be the 2nd best SF and PF in the East. I think we could hang with the Celtics and Magic for sure.

BRILLIANT! You are officially James Dolan. You have just given up all your assets and chance to improve to consistantly be 2nd best.

There is NOTHING exciting about BUYING a team thats getting bounced from round 2 every year. That just doesnt interest me.

Melo is NOT the superstar you stick role players around and win titles with.

There are 2 ways to win titles in the NBA. One is by having 2 superstars. We are talking a pair of top ten players like Kobe and Gasol, KG and Pierce, Shaq and Kobe/Wade, Jordan and Pippen...

The other way is with true depth and teamwork. I think Detroit showed if you can put 5 guys with size, skill, defense and toughness together you beat any team.

You need top flight talent at every position. You need 6-7 guys deep who create mismatches on both ends, who can beat you with size, with skill, with defense, on the glass.

Trading you 6'10 versatile young players for a scorer who does little to nothing else sets you back, not forward. We dont have a 27 year old Patrick Ewing. Melo isnt the "final piece." Pass

I disagree with you Fish, Melo makes the Knicks an elite team. Having Amare, Melo and Felton makes the Knicks very competitive. While I do agree with you that we shouldn't give away everything the Knicks have. Adding Melo to Amare gets you 50+ wins guaranteed. There is no way of knowing at this point if they could win a championship until it is done. Just as we Know there is no way of Knowing if the Heat are going to win a championship. But the fact that they increased their odds of getting a chip makes it a good move. You want the Knicks to increase their odds of a run to a championship and adding Melo would do that.

You may think that Melo is not the right guy for the team. I happen to think he is the right guy for the Knicks and improves the Knicks. Give me a Lineup of:

Chandler f/sg
Amare pf
Mozgov/Turiaff c
Melo sg/sf
Felton pg

I think that lineup goes a long way.

I am willing to wait in hopes that we can get Melo for less and maybe keep on of Gallo or AR or both. But make no mistake in the process you will lose some players even if you are waiting for Free agency or make a trade deadline move for Melo. But the Melo move is one that must be made to improve the Knicks chances of a championship.

nixluva wrote:I keep hearing about Gallo an AR not reaching their potential being a risk, But already I think we know these two are capable of being 18 ppg with 6 or more rebs and defense RIGHT NOW. They both have even higher upside than that, but I fell safe in predicting they can play at that level now. As these two mature with the talent they have and no one in front of them, I can't see them not being impactful players for this team on BOTH ENDS of the floor. WHy give up all that length and skill in the form of 2 young players for one guy? From a team perspective it makes more sense to keep the 2 big young studs.

Their is a difference between putting up 18 and 6 winning and putting up 18 and 6 and racking up losses. Melo is putting up points and winning in the WEST. Crawford and Curry put up stats in NY and we racked up the losses. Im just saying.

There is also a difference in putting up stats with a defender draped over you versus getting open looks or scoring garbage points.

AnubisADL wrote:

fishmike wrote:BRILLIANT! You are officially James Dolan. You have just given up all your assets and chance to improve to consistantly be 2nd best.

There is NOTHING exciting about BUYING a team thats getting bounced from round 2 every year. That just doesnt interest me.

Melo is NOT the superstar you stick role players around and win titles with.

There are 2 ways to win titles in the NBA. One is by having 2 superstars. We are talking a pair of top ten players like Kobe and Gasol, KG and Pierce, Shaq and Kobe/Wade, Jordan and Pippen...

The other way is with true depth and teamwork. I think Detroit showed if you can put 5 guys with size, skill, defense and toughness together you beat any team.

You need top flight talent at every position. You need 6-7 guys deep who create mismatches on both ends, who can beat you with size, with skill, with defense, on the glass.

Trading you 6'10 versatile young players for a scorer who does little to nothing else sets you back, not forward. We dont have a 27 year old Patrick Ewing. Melo isnt the "final piece." Pass

Detroit won a single championship. If Shaq and Kobe could have gotten along then Detroit would have not won a dam thing. Detroit also fizzled quickly after that. Detroit is more an example of striking when you have an opportunity to compete.

Lebron, Wade, and Bosh will be hard to beat but I dont think they will win 82 games do you?

If your core is Amare, Melo, and Felton I think you could bring in guys to put around them. Once you have your core in place you can bring in guys like Harrington and Crawford to fill out the bench.

I would certainly sign up for a run like that any day especially when you factor in they WON a title.

Now if the Pistons traded Prince and Sheed for Carmello they dont win that title. No way no how.

You talking about getting Melo then adding guys like Crawford and Harrington... my god you are Isiah! Really man? You have to defend and you have to have players who defend. Thats why MDA's Suns teams were so good. Nash may not be regarded as a great m2m defensive player but his quickness is very disruptive and he keeps his man out of lane. Amare, Marion, Diaw, Kurt Thomas, Barbosa, Raja Bell, QBrick, Joe Johnson... all guys who played on both ends of the court.

Knicks dont have the luxury of putting garbage players with a couple of superstars, and thats overrated anyway. LA thought they could do that with Kobe then went out and got Gasol and realized that SIZE AND SKILL wins.

I dont know how well Amare, Gallo, AR and Chandler will gell, but I do know starting 4 guys who are among the longest and most athletic as the other guys who play their positions is a good way to start building a winner in this league.

You FORCE other teams to play EVERY one of your guys. Lebron HAS to come out to guard Gallo, Bosh will HAVE to guard Amare, or Randolph, Wade will HAVE to guard a 6'8 athletic Chandler who can post.

when you have cheesy role players nobody worries about them and the star players on the other team can switch off and take plays off.

Maybe we agree to disagree but I see this as the only way to combat a team like Miami who is in your conference

fishmike wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

fishmike wrote:BRILLIANT! You are officially James Dolan. You have just given up all your assets and chance to improve to consistantly be 2nd best.

There is NOTHING exciting about BUYING a team thats getting bounced from round 2 every year. That just doesnt interest me.

Melo is NOT the superstar you stick role players around and win titles with.

There are 2 ways to win titles in the NBA. One is by having 2 superstars. We are talking a pair of top ten players like Kobe and Gasol, KG and Pierce, Shaq and Kobe/Wade, Jordan and Pippen...

The other way is with true depth and teamwork. I think Detroit showed if you can put 5 guys with size, skill, defense and toughness together you beat any team.

You need top flight talent at every position. You need 6-7 guys deep who create mismatches on both ends, who can beat you with size, with skill, with defense, on the glass.

Trading you 6'10 versatile young players for a scorer who does little to nothing else sets you back, not forward. We dont have a 27 year old Patrick Ewing. Melo isnt the "final piece." Pass

Detroit won a single championship. If Shaq and Kobe could have gotten along then Detroit would have not won a dam thing. Detroit also fizzled quickly after that. Detroit is more an example of striking when you have an opportunity to compete.

Lebron, Wade, and Bosh will be hard to beat but I dont think they will win 82 games do you?

If your core is Amare, Melo, and Felton I think you could bring in guys to put around them. Once you have your core in place you can bring in guys like Harrington and Crawford to fill out the bench.

Detroit won one title, went to game 7 of the finals the next year. That core of players won 50, 50, 54, 54, 64, 53 and 59 games over a 7 year stretch. They advanced to the conference finals 6 staight years and won an NBA championship.

I would certainly sign up for a run like that any day especially when you factor in they WON a title.

Now if the Pistons traded Prince and Sheed for Carmello they dont win that title. No way no how.

You talking about getting Melo then adding guys like Crawford and Harrington... my god you are Isiah! Really man? You have to defend and you have to have players who defend. Thats why MDA's Suns teams were so good. Nash may not be regarded as a great m2m defensive player but his quickness is very disruptive and he keeps his man out of lane. Amare, Marion, Diaw, Kurt Thomas, Barbosa, Raja Bell, QBrick, Joe Johnson... all guys who played on both ends of the court.

Knicks dont have the luxury of putting garbage players with a couple of superstars, and thats overrated anyway. LA thought they could do that with Kobe then went out and got Gasol and realized that SIZE AND SKILL wins.

I dont know how well Amare, Gallo, AR and Chandler will gell, but I do know starting 4 guys who are among the longest and most athletic as the other guys who play their positions is a good way to start building a winner in this league.

You FORCE other teams to play EVERY one of your guys. Lebron HAS to come out to guard Gallo, Bosh will HAVE to guard Amare, or Randolph, Wade will HAVE to guard a 6'8 athletic Chandler who can post.

when you have cheesy role players nobody worries about them and the star players on the other team can switch off and take plays off.

Maybe we agree to disagree but I see this as the only way to combat a team like Miami who is in your conference

- I dont understand this retrospective view of Detroit. No one thought that team was going to win anything. I also think Melo and Amare could get us too the ECF for the next 3-5 years. I guarantee you Detroit couldn't trade Wallace and Prince for Melo if they wanted too.

- LOL. Barbosa isn't even as good as Crawford and Harrington is better than Q Brick. At the end of the day the role players off the bench are interchangeable.

- LA's problem was/is that Bynum cant stay healthy. The guy is injured EVERY year. If Bynum could stay healthy they likely could have gotten by without Gasol.

- Starting 4 tall guys means nothing when they cant guard the opposing player at their position. Winning games is great but I want to compete now while Amare is in his prime. Also Wade and Lebron will eat up Chandler, Randolph, and Gallo. So what is the point? None of our guys have proven they can do anything consistently. Our guys havent even shown they are cable of stepping it up in the playoffs. We could have some Mo Williams type guys. We know Melo and Amare can get busy in the playoffs. I take a battle tested star in his prime over potential every time sorry.

- As I said before unless Miami is projected to win 82 games I dont understand the fear. Every team has a weakness and shooting will be Miami's. At the end of the day the team is going to put up X # of points a night. We either need to keep that point total down or keep our point total higher. Bosh cant stop Amare and Lebron cant stop Carmelo.

Childs2Dudley wrote:I don't want Melo unless the trade is Curry and Wilson Chandler. Just sign him next year.

It would be great if that were a guarentee, but it is far from that. In fact, as this gets more messy, Melo may warm to NJ and that would be very bad. I want to keep Gallo for his shooting and i think he can play alongside Melo at the SG. AR, Chandler, Curry, cash, and 2014 draft pick, get it done. You may not want to deal AR and neither do i, but for Melo i would do it in a second.

fishmike wrote:The Detroit example is one of how using size and skill can beat a more talented team of stars.
As for Miami the only point there is that Felton/Carmello/Amare is LESS than Bosh/Wade/Lebron so you just put all your eggs into a basket that is set up to ALWAY be 2nd best while Amare is in his prime.

Amare is 27 right now, not 32. Your treating it like he's Kevin Garnett and every year is make or break.

There is a LOT more that I like about Melo than dislike. He's the most talent FA next year hands down, and I LOVE that he WANTS to be in NY. But more than Melo I want to win a title or god forbid titles.

If we are going to win a title we need talent at every position.

You act like great role players are easy to come by and they arent. This is why teams like Magic and Cle would pay HUGE money for supporting guys.

Melo is NOT a once in a lifetime player. He's not a star you do anything to do to get on your roster like Lebron was last offseason. He could be a great piece to ADD to an already loaded team deep with size and skill...

All your looking at this all wrong. Your 100% focused on Melo being >>> than AR/Gallo.

This roster is set up the way it is for a good reason. Gallo and AR are in their rookie deals for 2 more years. They represent cheap talent with high ceilings. The whole point is next summer we are in a position to add a max caliber guy like Melo before we have to pay our young talent.

Walsh makes great trades and has gotten good value with FAs. I'm waiting for having great flexibility next off season and being a player again instead of locking myself into being 2nd best for the next 5 years

- Amare maybe in his prime but his knees say differently. Sooner or later the micro fracture surgery is going to catch up to him.

- Melo hasnt signed a contract with NY and he may never do that. Im so tired of people thinking everyone wants to play for the Knicks in NY. These guys want their MONEY. The more desperate Denver gets the bigger the chance a team over the cap has of getting Melo through a trade. Melo can opt into his deal and be traded up until June 30th 2011.

- Melo doesnt need to be a once in a lifetime player. He just needs to be a good fit for our team. Amare and Melo make us an ELITE team in the EAST.

- I assume you want another year of our team in a holding pattern waiting to see what Melo does in the summer.

- If we don't get Carmelo in the summer and he goes somewhere else we'd be royally screwed and would again be in a holding pattern for 2012. We'd also have to decide if we want to pay Gallo and/or Randolph. By the way all this time Amare's knees are continuing to break down.

Childs2Dudley wrote:I don't want Melo unless the trade is Curry and Wilson Chandler. Just sign him next year.

We can throw in $3mil (max allowed) and one of our SG or even Toney to get the deal done. I'd rather wait for next summer, but if we can get it done that way, so be it. Makes more sense for Melo if he signs with us straight up so we can use whatever pieces we would lose in a trade for him in order to sign CP3 when he jumps ship.

Knixkik wrote:

Childs2Dudley wrote:I don't want Melo unless the trade is Curry and Wilson Chandler. Just sign him next year.

It would be great if that were a guarentee, but it is far from that. In fact, as this gets more messy, Melo may warm to NJ and that would be very bad. I want to keep Gallo for his shooting and i think he can play alongside Melo at the SG. AR, Chandler, Curry, cash, and 2014 draft pick, get it done. You may not want to deal AR and neither do i, but for Melo i would do it in a second.

The Knicks don't have sht if the Nets offer Derricks Favors Devin Harris and 3#1 picks. If it's the case that Melo just wants to come to NY--than he can be patient like lBJ and Bosh were. We cant compete with the offers and if he wants to be a Knick--he can be for free next year. I think its a pretty simple equation