knicks1248 wrote:Does anybody feel that odem has live up to his potential..I know he plays with kobe so his touhes are limited, but it always seems like he's numbers are pretty pedestrian like for his skills..that's what I'm thinking about AR...

I think Odom just has that role player mentality. I dont think he wants to be the man. Guy was super talented though.

knicks1248 wrote:Does anybody feel that odem has live up to his potential..I know he plays with kobe so his touhes are limited, but it always seems like he's numbers are pretty pedestrian like for his skills..that's what I'm thinking about AR...

What is Odom's natural position? Does he fit will with Gasol and Artest?

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Does anybody feel that odem has live up to his potential..I know he plays with kobe so his touhes are limited, but it always seems like he's numbers are pretty pedestrian like for his skills..that's what I'm thinking about AR...

great call. What would you rather have? 2 Lamar Odoms or one CArmello Anthony?

What is Odom's natural position? Does he fit will with Gasol and Artest?

Give me Mello as oppose to 2 potential Bust..

AR was on the rise when he went down. I don't see any reason to believe he's got bust written on his butt either. Collectively they give us more than Melo does. I don't see scoring as being a problem for this team. They both are better defenders with more size and length. YES Melo is a stud and is practically unstoppable, but there's a limit to his abilities which we've seen already. It's not like he's been on a team with scrubs.

AnubisADL wrote:

fishmike wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:- Randolph's and Gallo's natural position seems to be PF. So I dont see how Amare(PF) will help their development by taking minutes away.

says who? Thats your opinion. Seemed to me that Gallo's natural position is SF where he can take advantage of his inside outside game, long range shooting and ability to play inside. Randolph is the same size as Camby who has played center for the last 10 years. Gallo and Randolph are not similar players to Amare either. All 3 can and have played multiple positions.

AnubisADL wrote:- I dont understand the excuse of Gallo and Randolph playing only a combined 100 games. They were both injured for dam near a full season which is a big red flag.

what excuse are you talking about? Your not making any sense. Are you suggesting that at 20 and 21 years old and 2 years in the league that Gallo and AR should be fully developed skilled players who have peeked and you now know what your getting from them for the next 10 years?

AnubisADL wrote:- Felton(PG), Amare(PF), and Melo(SF) > Felton(PG), Amare(PF), Randolph(PF), and Gallo(PF)

based on what? Talent? How do you know the 2nd group doesnt play better together and win more than the first? Trading either of those guys for Melo is stupid. All it does is fix your position as 3rd best in the east for the next 5 years. I will pass on that when we have the pieces to build something better.

Maybe with that cap space we save by not trading for Melo we could get Arenas this summer?

- Gallo isn't that light on his feet to play SF full time. His handle is also overrated. He is good at stationary dribbling but using his handle to get to the rim is not his forte.

- Camby is the same size as Randolph and I recall Camby being constantly injured and he still is. Marcus Camby was also the #1 pick.

- Gallo and Randolph have have been in the league for 2 years. They have each been injured for nearly a complete season. I posted video of Anthony injury for a reason. The guy came down and BAM he is out for the rest of the season for a sprained ankle after attempting to block a shot. If Blake Griffin, who is a BEAST, gets injured again his value will plummet. Griffin's injury is also a concern going toward the future because he doesnt appear to be the most durable guy. When a young guy goes out for a complete season after being injured on a mundane play it raises red flag about their health.

- Randolph and Gallo are question marks. Melo, Amare, and Felton are proven and you know what you are getting night in night out.

Injuries happen. Gallo played 82 games after he got hurt his rookie year. Case closed.

Randolph weighed less than 180 pounds at 6'10 the night of the draft. If he was heavier Walsh would have taken him. He's said this. Randolph fell because he doesnt have an NBA body. Thats improved.

Gallo doesnt have to play SF all the time, but he's best suited for it. He's a good passer and has a good handle. He doesnt have to be Lebron.

Why are you stuck on guys only being able to play one position?

What makes AR/Chandler/Gallo/Amare such an interesting group is they can all play a couple spots effectively, or at least have potential to. You have to let this group develop and see what you have.

fishmike wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

fishmike wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:- Randolph's and Gallo's natural position seems to be PF. So I dont see how Amare(PF) will help their development by taking minutes away.

says who? Thats your opinion. Seemed to me that Gallo's natural position is SF where he can take advantage of his inside outside game, long range shooting and ability to play inside. Randolph is the same size as Camby who has played center for the last 10 years. Gallo and Randolph are not similar players to Amare either. All 3 can and have played multiple positions.

AnubisADL wrote:- I dont understand the excuse of Gallo and Randolph playing only a combined 100 games. They were both injured for dam near a full season which is a big red flag.

what excuse are you talking about? Your not making any sense. Are you suggesting that at 20 and 21 years old and 2 years in the league that Gallo and AR should be fully developed skilled players who have peeked and you now know what your getting from them for the next 10 years?

AnubisADL wrote:- Felton(PG), Amare(PF), and Melo(SF) > Felton(PG), Amare(PF), Randolph(PF), and Gallo(PF)

based on what? Talent? How do you know the 2nd group doesnt play better together and win more than the first? Trading either of those guys for Melo is stupid. All it does is fix your position as 3rd best in the east for the next 5 years. I will pass on that when we have the pieces to build something better.

Maybe with that cap space we save by not trading for Melo we could get Arenas this summer?

- Gallo isn't that light on his feet to play SF full time. His handle is also overrated. He is good at stationary dribbling but using his handle to get to the rim is not his forte.

- Camby is the same size as Randolph and I recall Camby being constantly injured and he still is. Marcus Camby was also the #1 pick.

- Gallo and Randolph have have been in the league for 2 years. They have each been injured for nearly a complete season. I posted video of Anthony injury for a reason. The guy came down and BAM he is out for the rest of the season for a sprained ankle after attempting to block a shot. If Blake Griffin, who is a BEAST, gets injured again his value will plummet. Griffin's injury is also a concern going toward the future because he doesnt appear to be the most durable guy. When a young guy goes out for a complete season after being injured on a mundane play it raises red flag about their health.

- Randolph and Gallo are question marks. Melo, Amare, and Felton are proven and you know what you are getting night in night out.

so if you so concerned about an injury why would you pine for a guy (Arenas) who is always hurt and eats up a 1/3 of your entire cap? I dont get it.

Injuries happen. Gallo played 82 games after he got hurt his rookie year. Case closed.

Randolph weighed less than 180 pounds at 6'10 the night of the draft. If he was heavier Walsh would have taken him. He's said this. Randolph fell because he doesnt have an NBA body. Thats improved.

Gallo doesnt have to play SF all the time, but he's best suited for it. He's a good passer and has a good handle. He doesnt have to be Lebron.

Why are you stuck on guys only being able to play one position?

What makes AR/Chandler/Gallo/Amare such an interesting group is they can all play a couple spots effectively, or at least have potential to. You have to let this group develop and see what you have.

- I know injuries happen. Season ending injuries are not minor or normal though.

- Im not stuck on guys playing a position where they can best be effective. Garnett and Duncan could have played center but obviously that is not the ideal position for them.

- You stuck on potential. Channing Frye had potential too.

Could be the reason why AR, JC, and AL Harrington fell out of favor with donny nelson (bad shot selection) and we all know first hand about AL and JC. I hope that not the case, but from some of the comments I read in the GSW forums, his shot selction definetly went into questioning.

AnubisADL wrote:

TMS wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:The guy is at a crossroads. This is his third year in the league. He needs to be developed in the mold of Kevin Garnett not Jared Jefferies.

i agree w/u but i have a feeling MDA is going to want to use AR in the fishlips role of guarding smaller players on the perimeter & leaving him with dirtywork duty... i hope i'm wrong, i'd like to see AR show off some offensive skills, cuz he does have them.

If MDA does that then Randolph is ruined. Guys like David Lee are the exception not the rule. Most guys arent going to go from being a brick mason to consistent shooter. I shudder at Randolph pulling up for jumpers off the dribble.

i am certain he won't be laying as many bricks as Fishlips did when MDA had him chucking up 3's & midrange J's at least... but i hope he gets featured more in the offense & coached up to develop his game... i hope MDA has him running backdoor cuts & the like on every possession rather than just left free to launch up J's everytime he touches the ball... i seriously hope if we're going to end up holding onto this kid, that we invest the time & MINUTES to letting him reach his potential.

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

TMS wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:The guy is at a crossroads. This is his third year in the league. He needs to be developed in the mold of Kevin Garnett not Jared Jefferies.

i agree w/u but i have a feeling MDA is going to want to use AR in the fishlips role of guarding smaller players on the perimeter & leaving him with dirtywork duty... i hope i'm wrong, i'd like to see AR show off some offensive skills, cuz he does have them.

If MDA does that then Randolph is ruined. Guys like David Lee are the exception not the rule. Most guys arent going to go from being a brick mason to consistent shooter. I shudder at Randolph pulling up for jumpers off the dribble.

i am certain he won't be laying as many bricks as Fishlips did when MDA had him chucking up 3's & midrange J's at least... but i hope he gets featured more in the offense & coached up to develop his game... i hope MDA has him running backdoor cuts & the like on every possession rather than just left free to launch up J's everytime he touches the ball... i seriously hope if we're going to end up holding onto this kid, that we invest the time & MINUTES to letting him reach his potential.

Man there is so much more to Mike's offense than we've seen so far that it's not even funny. I think like any coach you can go over stuff with guys, but ultimately they have to be the ones to actually execute these things on the court and some guys just never feel comfortable with what they're asked to do. Like Duhon really on feeling comfortable making the short pass to Lee on the PnR, despite there being so many more options than that. Al and Gallo SETTLING for the 3 more often than not. Making the pass to the man that has a BETTER shot is a huge part of this system. You want people chasing the ball, but never catching up with it. Al was so selfish that even when it was clear he should pass he often didn't and forced things. Forced shots isn't what this offense is about. Now AR will be instructed on all the ways to take advantage within this offense just like everyone else, but it's up to him to get it done. Later in the season both Gallo and Chan started to use the other options and their games improved because of it.

There's a reason so many coaches look at Mike as an offensive guru. If it wasn't true they wouldn't be saying it was. Star players wouldn't be saying he was. Don't look at the coach and blame him. This is on the players. Some guys come in and get it right away like Lee & E. Barron. It's all in their heads. If AR can get to the point where he sees the openings he's gonna be a star in this system.

i don't disagree w/any of that, but none of that really addresses my concerns about how AR will be used in this system... i don't want him playing the Fishlips type role on this squad... i am hoping we see AR featured more in the offense & allowed to be more of an offensive presence rather than as a dirty work type player.

even if MDA uses AR as he did Boris Diaw during his first year in Phoenix & letting him do some of the orchestrating from the high post, i think we could get very good production out of him, maybe better than the 13 / 6 / 7 that Diaw put up his first season under MDA's tutorlage... i would be more than happy to get that kind of production out of AR this season, & i think he's well capable of doing it if used correctly.