JohnWallace44 wrote:

Here are Turiaf's highlights for a whole year. Mozgov's gonna get PT.

CrushAlot wrote:

JohnWallace44 wrote:
Here are Turiaf's highlights for a whole year. Mozgov's gonna get PT.

I hope you are right but Johnathon Bender had no highlights from the previous year and he played over the Knicks lottery pick last year. I think you have to consider that Timofey is a rookie, is coming from another country, will be playing at a much higher level and he is playing for a coach who doesn't like to play rookies or traditional bigs.

Hill was a PF/C for the Knicks, positions occupied by Harrington and Lee. Bender was more of a SF who played near the 3point line. Different positions for different roles on the team.

CrushAlot wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:The guy is a foul machine. I can't see D'Antoni playing this guy any meaningful minutes this season. The guy tries but he reminds me of a less athletic Andre Jordan.

I think everything you said is pretty accurate but I don't see it as a negative. I love DeAndre Jordan's game and potential and I know he has a ways to go before he fulfills his natural talent. My concern with Mosgov is that I don't see D'Antoni playing him either. I think it is funny that everyone is so high on a guy that no other team even spent a draft pick on when the coach wouldn't play last years lottery pick. My hope is that Timofey's tenure with the Knicks is longer than D'Antonis.

If this tournament had been played prior to the draft do you think that he would have been drafted?

First time playing on the big stage and he has shown that he can compete at this level.

He was not signed to be a starting center at this time. He has 6 fouls to give in the 10-15 minutes he will probably be getting, and I think those minute numbers were probably put into his head by the Knicks when they spoke to him or his agent about signing with them, so I expect to see him get time on the floor.

I also look at Herb Williams, and not MDA, when it comes to developing Mosguv's game. We have a 6'11" guy as a coach who played in the NBA for a zillion years- let's seem him do HIS job and work with this kid.

You can see that this guy is a diamond in the rough, and with a little polishing Mosguv can turn out to be one of the hidden treasures of this incoming rookie class.

A kid with his size and athletic talent will likely thrive here with such a spread floor. How are teams going to be able to cover everything we throw at them AND keep an eye on him too? I think he's got a chance to be this years Robin Lopez for sure. Mostly cuz this is a perfect situation for him to succeed. While teams are chasin Amare, Gallo etc. He's gonna have a field day slipping in towards the basket for easy scores, put backs, rebounds etc.

CrushAlot wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:The guy is a foul machine. I can't see D'Antoni playing this guy any meaningful minutes this season. The guy tries but he reminds me of a less athletic Andre Jordan.

I think everything you said is pretty accurate but I don't see it as a negative. I love DeAndre Jordan's game and potential and I know he has a ways to go before he fulfills his natural talent. My concern with Mosgov is that I don't see D'Antoni playing him either. I think it is funny that everyone is so high on a guy that no other team even spent a draft pick on when the coach wouldn't play last years lottery pick. My hope is that Timofey's tenure with the Knicks is longer than D'Antonis.

If this tournament had been played prior to the draft do you think that he would have been drafted?

First time playing on the big stage and he has shown that he can compete at this level.

He was not signed to be a starting center at this time. He has 6 fouls to give in the 10-15 minutes he will probably be getting, and I think those minute numbers were probably put into his head by the Knicks when they spoke to him or his agent about signing with them, so I expect to see him get time on the floor.

I also look at Herb Williams, and not MDA, when it comes to developing Mosguv's game. We have a 6'11" guy as a coach who played in the NBA for a zillion years- let's seem him do HIS job and work with this kid.

You can see that this guy is a diamond in the rough, and with a little polishing Mosguv can turn out to be one of the hidden treasures of this incoming rookie class.

My point was I don't see him playing much next year for D'Antoni. He appears to be a guy that can make it but I don't see him getting a lot of time next year with this coach.

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:It's funny but Mike didn't have a problem playing guys if they put out max effort. He just wants energy from his players. I don't think he felt he got Max Effort from Darko or Hill. Tho we may not see what the problem was, we don't look at the game the way a coach does. This guy is expecting certain things and if he doesn't see it he's gonna put someone else in. For Mike to mention not being Lazy speaks volumes about what he felt he got from Darko & Hill. Mike had his talk with Timo and told him what he wanted and I expect once he gets to NY the coaches will go even further. From what I see, he should be able to get 10-15 minutes fairly consistently. It's not like he's got to do much in the beginning but be big and do what he already does very well. It's understood he's got a lot to work on, but the basic stuff is what he's got down already.

whereas Jonathan Bender gave him max effort & energy? i don't agree w/that at all... MDA plays who he wants to play... he's got his favorites just like any coach does... just putting forth the effort is not going to get you the minutes in his system... the good thing is this season we don't have any burned out veteran scrubs that don't deserve any playing time on the roster, so the opportunity for a more deserving younger player to be languishing on the bench not seeing playing time is relatively minimal.

What's with you and Bender? Bender did things that MDA like better ON THE PERIMETER, but he wasn't even playing C, so why the hell do you keep bringing him up? Besides it's not like he was racking up huge minutes anyway. Using Bender doesn't really help your argument.

I want to address this obvious bias you and others keep expressing about Mike's use of his roster. The thing is that the guy had his reasons for not playing guys like Darko and Hill. He didn't owe them anything but an opportunity to earn playing time. You and others seem to think that somehow Mike just arbitrarily dislikes guys and doesn't play them rather than having a valid BB reason for playing the guys that he does. This is a guy that won in Europe and in the NBA and hates to lose. To assume that he'd be that petty with his rep on the line seems a bit cynical to me and to fly in the face of logic.

IMO Darko sulked and took himself out of the running. Hill was green coming in and didn't work hard from day one as a rookie should. Before the season in SL he was clearly out of shape and it seems from the comments of the coaches that he had issues with his level of effort. Add that to his looking like a deer in headlights at 1st and it's not hard to understand why he didn't see a lot of time. Since you nor I were at practice to see how the kid worked, it's hard to refute the reports from the coaches. He seemed to get better as the season went along and Mike took note of his improvement. Who knows if he stayed if things might have changed this season. I just don't agree that Mike did him wrong and didn't have a valid BB reason for not playing the kid.

Now as for this years crop of bigs, Donnie did a great job of adding guys that Mike would like. I'm sure that Mike had a lot of input on the players as well. The only issue is how much PT Timo will earn. His recent play would seem to suggest that he can come in here and contribute so we'll see. I just don't think Mike is anti 7' kids with talent. That just sounds silly.

TMS wrote:i keep bringing up Bender cuz he sucked ass & he got playing time regardless of his piss poor skills... there is absolutely zero justification you can give me why a #8 lottery pick wasn't seeing playing time over him... he was washed up & it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out... i'm sorry if i don't share in your everything MDA does is the truth ideology but i call things the way i see them.

how was Bender getting minutes over Hill? You make it sound like they played the same position and one was taking away minutes from the other, which was certainly not the case.

Lee, Harrington, Jefferies were taking minutes away from Hill. Hill was taking away minutes from himself by not being prepared during the summer. He was also a rookie who was still learning an NBA system.

When Bender first played, the Knicks played near .500 ball over the months of December and January and he played decently (nothing stellar and nothing completely detrimental). That's right, Bender was a part of that 1 gap in the season that the Knicks played OK. He started to crumble after that and his minutes were reduced. He shot 36% from 3point land, which is not great but was a small part of spacing for the second unit, something the Knicks desperately needed.

As as coach, when you are given a new teammate and you don't know what you got with him and there are no practices left during that time of year, do you not play him at all or give him some minutes and see what you got? Unlike a rookie who is on a multiple year contract, you don't have time to let it play out.

I don't know TMS, you keep repeating the same "Bender sucks ass and was taking away minutes from Hill" argument without any real substance behind it. Never do you even consider any counterpoints or reasons against or bring up any details regarding the time period when Bender was playing and Hill was not, whether they are close to valid, relevant or not. You don't even respond to any of nixluvas points. So I guess this is not a discussion so much as it is you just shouting your point over and over and over again while closing your eyes and plugging your ears? One would expect better.

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:i keep bringing up Bender cuz he sucked ass & he got playing time regardless of his piss poor skills... there is absolutely zero justification you can give me why a #8 lottery pick wasn't seeing playing time over him... he was washed up & it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out... i'm sorry if i don't share in your everything MDA does is the truth ideology but i call things the way i see them.

how was Bender getting minutes over Hill? You make it sound like they played the same position and one was taking away minutes from the other, which was certainly not the case.

Lee, Harrington, Jefferies were taking minutes away from Hill. Hill was taking away minutes from himself by not being prepared during the summer. He was also a rookie who was still learning an NBA system.

When Bender first played, the Knicks played near .500 ball over the months of December and January and he played decently (nothing stellar and nothing completely detrimental). That's right, Bender was a part of that 1 gap in the season that the Knicks played OK. He started to crumble after that and his minutes were reduced. He shot 36% from 3point land, which is not great but was a small part of spacing for the second unit, something the Knicks desperately needed.

As as coach, when you are given a new teammate and you don't know what you got with him and there are no practices left during that time of year, do you not play him at all or give him some minutes and see what you got? Unlike a rookie who is on a multiple year contract, you don't have time to let it play out.

I don't know TMS, you keep repeating the same "Bender sucks ass and was taking away minutes from Hill" argument without any real substance behind it. Never do you even consider any counterpoints or reasons against or bring up any details regarding the time period when Bender was playing and Hill was not, whether they are close to valid, relevant or not. You don't even respond to any of nixluvas points. So I guess this is not a discussion so much as it is you just shouting your point over and over and over again while closing your eyes and plugging your ears? One would expect better.

& you keep rehasing the same "MDA was justified in playing Bender" shpiel & have yet to give me any legitimate reasoning on why the guy was getting any PT at all... don't give me this "he plays a different position" stuff, it doesn't fly when you're talking about 10 mpg off the bench players... you make it sound as if Bender was playing in the backcourt... we had Al Harrington, Fishlips, Wilson Chandler & Gallo all playing out of the 3 position at one point or another during the season... we needed shotblocking & rebounding up front & we had Bender playing minutes over Jordan Hill off the bench... you tell me i never consider counterpoints, how are you any different? you stick to this ridiculous logic that MDA had some reasoning behind his playing of a clearly washed up player & don't offer anything worthy of any substance to back it up... IMO when your GM just drafted a guy #8 overall & your team is not good, you need to get that kid some playing time over some washed up vet that has no future on the team whatsoever.

TMS wrote:

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:i keep bringing up Bender cuz he sucked ass & he got playing time regardless of his piss poor skills... there is absolutely zero justification you can give me why a #8 lottery pick wasn't seeing playing time over him... he was washed up & it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out... i'm sorry if i don't share in your everything MDA does is the truth ideology but i call things the way i see them.

how was Bender getting minutes over Hill? You make it sound like they played the same position and one was taking away minutes from the other, which was certainly not the case.

Lee, Harrington, Jefferies were taking minutes away from Hill. Hill was taking away minutes from himself by not being prepared during the summer. He was also a rookie who was still learning an NBA system.

When Bender first played, the Knicks played near .500 ball over the months of December and January and he played decently (nothing stellar and nothing completely detrimental). That's right, Bender was a part of that 1 gap in the season that the Knicks played OK. He started to crumble after that and his minutes were reduced. He shot 36% from 3point land, which is not great but was a small part of spacing for the second unit, something the Knicks desperately needed.

As as coach, when you are given a new teammate and you don't know what you got with him and there are no practices left during that time of year, do you not play him at all or give him some minutes and see what you got? Unlike a rookie who is on a multiple year contract, you don't have time to let it play out.

I don't know TMS, you keep repeating the same "Bender sucks ass and was taking away minutes from Hill" argument without any real substance behind it. Never do you even consider any counterpoints or reasons against or bring up any details regarding the time period when Bender was playing and Hill was not, whether they are close to valid, relevant or not. You don't even respond to any of nixluvas points. So I guess this is not a discussion so much as it is you just shouting your point over and over and over again while closing your eyes and plugging your ears? One would expect better.

& you keep rehasing the same "MDA was justified in playing Bender" shpiel & have yet to give me any legitimate reasoning on why the guy was getting any PT at all... don't give me this "he plays a different position" stuff, it doesn't fly when you're talking about 10 mpg off the bench players... you make it sound as if Bender was playing in the backcourt... we had Al Harrington, Fishlips, Wilson Chandler & Gallo all playing out of the 3 position at one point or another during the season... we needed shotblocking & rebounding up front & we had Bender playing minutes over Jordan Hill off the bench... you tell me i never consider counterpoints, how are you any different? you stick to this ridiculous logic that MDA had some reasoning behind his playing of a clearly washed up player & don't offer anything worthy of any substance to back it up... IMO when your GM just drafted a guy #8 overall & your team is not good, you need to get that kid some playing time over some washed up vet that has no future on the team whatsoever.

I am not even trying to make the argument that MDA was justified in playing Bender. I am pointing out a few things that did in fact occur.

So when a new guy for the team is in the mix when your team is playing the best ball of the season, do you let it play out or change it immediately?

Hill falls asleep out there.

However, when you're on a losing team, you don't get much playing time, and then you get called on to play, and you're not putting forth your best effort, it's hard to take you seriously as a player. I'd rather go to the lesser skilled guy who's going all out.