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Will The Knicks Be Improved On D?


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nixluva
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I think there's been a lot of debate on whether Mike has the commitment to defense and if we have the horses to be a good defensive team. My take is that this roster is setup more like the better defensive teams Mike has had in the past, which were at about middle of the pack. I actually think that this roster has more size than he's ever had and more perimeter defenders. This may just be the best defensive talent he's had since becoming a head coach in the NBA.

Has he had 2 better defensive PG's than Felton and TD? Marion was good at help D, but his lateral quickness wasn't that good. I think Chandler is at least as good as Marion overall. Amar'e has never been great, but we're getting him at a good time it seems. He's playing his best defensive BB yet. AR seems to be the bigtime help defender we've been missing. I expect him to avg 2 blocks this year with the extended minutes he should be able to get. Turiaf and Mosgov may be a solid C tandem in terms of effort from what I can see. Not great, but they look to give good effort.

About the same
Better, but still bad, 20 something in league
Make big strides and get to 15-20 in league
Shock the World and get to top 14 in league
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Author Thread
Panos
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9/8/2010  4:13 PM
fishmike wrote:Randolph essentially replaces JJ's role on D. I'm not looking for him to be Ben Wallace.

Randolph's should be MUCH better than JJ's defense. JJ's defense was MASSIVELY overrated. He's slow and uncoordinated.

AUTOADVERT
Panos
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9/8/2010  4:14 PM
Allanfan20 wrote:
I think we played our best defense when we had JJ guarding the PGs. I wonder if that would work while Felton guards the 2 guards. It's something that would have to happen in short spurts. It did a lot of wonders though, so I can see Antony Randolph fulfilling that role, if MDA assigns him it.

Personally, I thought that was a gimmick and didn't see the value in it.
Any PG worth his salt could blow past JJ.

sidsanders
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9/8/2010  4:15 PM
Panos wrote:
fishmike wrote:Randolph essentially replaces JJ's role on D. I'm not looking for him to be Ben Wallace.

Randolph's should be MUCH better than JJ's defense. JJ's defense was MASSIVELY overrated. He's slow and uncoordinated.

quite agree. jj was real good in wash -- except wash was awful in d. same here, easy to be good compared to guys who didnt care/try too hard. ar i hope is gonna make jj look like the joke he was in d.

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knicks1248
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9/8/2010  5:59 PM
I dont think MDA's has a good enough scheme to be a really good defensive team, we have some some defensive players now so we will be slightly better, but the bottom line is having a sceheme, and players knowing when to rotate.

In the 90's individule D was much more important because it was a lot more physical, OAk, starks, ewing, those guys could bully you, grab you and get physical, with todays rules and athletes, it's more traping, rotating, once a guy gets buy you it's a wrap, you can bearly breath on guy once he gets in the paint, or gets a step on you.

The shot blocking will help, but you could easily see our plyers in foul trouble often, especially if theres no real scheme, expect a lot of ZONE DEFENSE

ES
nixluva
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9/8/2010  6:05 PM
The only problem I have with those observations is that when JJ was playing well this team was on fire defensively. There was a stretch where the team was holding teams down scoring wise and actually winning some games. The move is somewhat of a gimmick, but also effective for short stretches and that's all you might need sometimes to pullout games. The reason it's effective is that PG's won't find it so easy to get by a near 7' guy that can give them space, but still long enough to effect their shot. It's not so easy when the big is quicker than usual. The idea is to force them to have to shoot it or pass, but not giving them the drive. I'm not sure if AR has better lateral quickness, but I know that he's a better shotblocker. I don't expect to see a lot of AR defending PG's. We don't need it this year. We've got solid defenders at PG and so we can keep things fairly traditional, unless we're getting torched in which case switching things up can be a good move.
martin
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9/8/2010  6:08 PM
knicks1248 wrote:I dont think MDA's has a good enough scheme to be a really good defensive team, we have some some defensive players now so we will be slightly better, but the bottom line is having a sceheme, and players knowing when to rotate.

In the 90's individule D was much more important because it was a lot more physical, OAk, starks, ewing, those guys could bully you, grab you and get physical, with todays rules and athletes, it's more traping, rotating, once a guy gets buy you it's a wrap, you can bearly breath on guy once he gets in the paint, or gets a step on you.

The shot blocking will help, but you could easily see our plyers in foul trouble often, especially if theres no real scheme, expect a lot of ZONE DEFENSE

what was MDA's scheme? And what was it during his days in PHO?

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nixluva
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9/8/2010  7:31 PM
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I dont think MDA's has a good enough scheme to be a really good defensive team, we have some some defensive players now so we will be slightly better, but the bottom line is having a sceheme, and players knowing when to rotate.

In the 90's individule D was much more important because it was a lot more physical, OAk, starks, ewing, those guys could bully you, grab you and get physical, with todays rules and athletes, it's more traping, rotating, once a guy gets buy you it's a wrap, you can bearly breath on guy once he gets in the paint, or gets a step on you.

The shot blocking will help, but you could easily see our plyers in foul trouble often, especially if theres no real scheme, expect a lot of ZONE DEFENSE

what was MDA's scheme? And what was it during his days in PHO?

I know you probably meant this ? for knicks1248, but i'll jump in an say that Mike's approach to defense is to play back off your man and take away penetration, thus forcing teams into taking longer jumpers than they might want to and to play the passing lanes looking to tip/steal passes. It actually is very effective when you have good players running it, like any system or scheme. It's only as good as the players in it. The other point is that he doesn't want a grind it out defense cuz he doesn't like FT's. FT's are the highest % part of any teams offense if you figure 75% or more. So he feels why slow the game down which is to the other teams advantage and also give them a high % shot at that. It was very effective for him in PHX and I believe with better two way players it can be even more effective here.

knicks1248
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9/8/2010  9:12 PM
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I dont think MDA's has a good enough scheme to be a really good defensive team, we have some some defensive players now so we will be slightly better, but the bottom line is having a sceheme, and players knowing when to rotate.

In the 90's individule D was much more important because it was a lot more physical, OAk, starks, ewing, those guys could bully you, grab you and get physical, with todays rules and athletes, it's more traping, rotating, once a guy gets buy you it's a wrap, you can bearly breath on guy once he gets in the paint, or gets a step on you.

The shot blocking will help, but you could easily see our plyers in foul trouble often, especially if theres no real scheme, expect a lot of ZONE DEFENSE

what was MDA's scheme? And what was it during his days in PHO?

They were a middle of the road defensive team, they avg 110ppg and gave up 107ppg, they were a very effecient offensive team and they played a lot of zone

The only problem I have with those observations is that when JJ was playing well this team was on fire defensively. There was a stretch where the team was holding teams down scoring wise and actually winning some games. The move is somewhat of a gimmick, but also effective for short stretches and that's all you might need sometimes to pullout games. The reason it's effective is that PG's won't find it so easy to get by a near 7' guy that can give them space, but still long enough to effect their shot. It's not so easy when the big is quicker than usual. The idea is to force them to have to shoot it or pass, but not giving them the drive. I'm not sure if AR has better lateral quickness, but I know that he's a better shotblocker. I don't expect to see a lot of AR defending PG's. We don't need it this year. We've got solid defenders at PG and so we can keep things fairly traditional, unless we're getting torched in which case switching things up can be a good move.

your talking about a stretch of 6-10 games..

ES
knicks1248
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9/8/2010  9:25 PM
nixluva wrote:
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I dont think MDA's has a good enough scheme to be a really good defensive team, we have some some defensive players now so we will be slightly better, but the bottom line is having a sceheme, and players knowing when to rotate.

In the 90's individule D was much more important because it was a lot more physical, OAk, starks, ewing, those guys could bully you, grab you and get physical, with todays rules and athletes, it's more traping, rotating, once a guy gets buy you it's a wrap, you can bearly breath on guy once he gets in the paint, or gets a step on you.

The shot blocking will help, but you could easily see our plyers in foul trouble often, especially if theres no real scheme, expect a lot of ZONE DEFENSE

what was MDA's scheme? And what was it during his days in PHO?

I know you probably meant this ? for knicks1248, but i'll jump in an say that Mike's approach to defense is to play back off your man and take away penetration, thus forcing teams into taking longer jumpers than they might want to and to play the passing lanes looking to tip/steal passes. It actually is very effective when you have good players running it, like any system or scheme. It's only as good as the players in it. The other point is that he doesn't want a grind it out defense cuz he doesn't like FT's. FT's are the highest % part of any teams offense if you figure 75% or more. So he feels why slow the game down which is to the other teams advantage and also give them a high % shot at that. It was very effective for him in PHX and I believe with better two way players it can be even more effective here.


Ft is the key to any offensive, and the main reason a team wins games...Look at kevin durants FT%..like 90% and LBJ who was like 75%.. had LBJ shot at least 85% he would have won the scoring title instead of KD..

I agree with your assetment, long jumpers leads to long rebounds, which leads to fast breaks, thats why i said he will use a lot of zone defense

ES
martin
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9/8/2010  9:41 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I dont think MDA's has a good enough scheme to be a really good defensive team, we have some some defensive players now so we will be slightly better, but the bottom line is having a sceheme, and players knowing when to rotate.

In the 90's individule D was much more important because it was a lot more physical, OAk, starks, ewing, those guys could bully you, grab you and get physical, with todays rules and athletes, it's more traping, rotating, once a guy gets buy you it's a wrap, you can bearly breath on guy once he gets in the paint, or gets a step on you.

The shot blocking will help, but you could easily see our plyers in foul trouble often, especially if theres no real scheme, expect a lot of ZONE DEFENSE

what was MDA's scheme? And what was it during his days in PHO?

I know you probably meant this ? for knicks1248, but i'll jump in an say that Mike's approach to defense is to play back off your man and take away penetration, thus forcing teams into taking longer jumpers than they might want to and to play the passing lanes looking to tip/steal passes. It actually is very effective when you have good players running it, like any system or scheme. It's only as good as the players in it. The other point is that he doesn't want a grind it out defense cuz he doesn't like FT's. FT's are the highest % part of any teams offense if you figure 75% or more. So he feels why slow the game down which is to the other teams advantage and also give them a high % shot at that. It was very effective for him in PHX and I believe with better two way players it can be even more effective here.


Ft is the key to any offensive, and the main reason a team wins games...Look at kevin durants FT%..like 90% and LBJ who was like 75%.. had LBJ shot at least 85% he would have won the scoring title instead of KD..

odd statement. You would have to show that teams that make and/or take the most FTs in games have the highest win %. Don't see that showing.

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nixluva
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9/9/2010  12:29 AM
The thing is that YES you need to play D, but this idea that the best defensive team always wins isn't true. We know that you don't want to rely on offense only and I don't believe Mike has ever felt that he doesn't need defense. What he's done is come up with an approach that actually improves his teams efficiency as an offense. His style of D enhances his teams ability to play fast and it's actually been effective. Now in the end you still need to have superior talent to win, and I think his style has helped to maximize his teams chances to win, despite not having the leagues best talent.
Now that we have some better players, players that play decent defense as well as great offense, I think we'll see a team that looks a lot more like a D'Antoni team.

Regarding FT's, the idea is that you don't really want the opposing team to live on the line if you're trying to run. So you're not going to see Mike ask his players to play super aggressive. Yes at times against a great player you want to man up and play tough man D. Even in PHX Mike had times where his players played tough man D. This is why Raja and Kobe got into physically. That was in your face defense. You have to pick your spots tho. Mike trusted Raja and Marion etc to know when it was OK to play aggressively. At some point our own players will learn to anticipate the flow of the game and know when to do such things, but for now I think it will be good just to see a solid D for a change.

Will The Knicks Be Improved On D?

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