iSergio wrote:

Olbrannon wrote:Still don't see Atlanta as better after we owned the series against them. Did they upgrade the PG spot?

Atlanta won 53 games last year and went to the 2nd Round. We are not at that level as currently constructed. These 45+ win predictions are wishful thinking.

wishful thinking..Your joking right??

We have won more games with less talent back in our hey days.

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:I really think that after MIA and Orlando..You can throw the rest of the teams in the air and see where they land. No one else seems to be that much better then the other.

Boston went to the finals last year, and could have won if their center was healthy (they got beat because of size + Gasol, NOT Kobe).

Now Boston adds Shaq and Jermaine Oneil. Two guys highly motivated to win a ring.

I do think Miami wins the #1 seed because of all the regular season wins they will add up but if Boston is healthy once the playoffs start they are the favorite to come out of the east. No ifs ands or butts or fruity drinks

thats the problem, each year there have been injuries that have held them back, picking up a used car(like the oneals)that has 200.000 thousand miles on it ,is not a lock to get you in.
The car is sure to break down at some point, your not replacing old parts with new. The both Oneals prove to be nothing special on there respective teams last season

Ever buy used tires to put on your car...How long do they last

With a lineup of A/R, Amare, Gallo, Chandler, & Felton we can compete with anyone....

nyvector16 wrote:We'll probably be closer to 50 than 45.

With a lineup of A/R, Amare, Gallo, Chandler, & Felton we can compete with anyone....

Look we could score with ANYONE already. Now we'll be able to at least defend like a decent NBA team. That should lead to a lot more wins. We've been about the worst shotblocking team in the league for years. Now we actually could have Camby Jr. in the rotation. Not to mention Amare, Turiaf and Timo. This team is gonna be much tougher defensively with Felton up top and all the other guys we've added to our pretty decent core of Gallo, Chan & TD, who've shown they can defend.

Now exactly why shouldn't we feel that this team is in the 2nd tier of good teams in the East? After Mia, Bost & Orl. We're right in the middle of that next group.

JohnWallace44 wrote:

Childs2Dudley wrote:I can't rank the Knicks higher than 8th until I see how the other teams look at the start of the season.

+1

No way you can put the Knicks above the Hawks and the Bucks until they prove it.

Basically this team has all the components needed to be in that 2nd tier of the East on par with Bucks and Hawks. In what way are we inferior to the Hawks? The Bucks have a nice team, but I think we're deeper and more talented overall. Stop looking at what this team was and just look at the current roster in relation to the rest of the East.

Another thing is that the learning curve isn't as steep since Donnie brought in players that come from similar systems. Amare, AZ, Turiaf, AR and Mason can all play fast. We have more defensive minded players now too. Name the player in our rotation that isn't willing to defend! The worst guy is Gallo and he's shown that he wants to defend and play hard. It's just not rational to lay the past on this roster. We couldn't be more different from the last few years.

Childs2Dudley wrote:

nixluva wrote:

JohnWallace44 wrote:

Childs2Dudley wrote:I can't rank the Knicks higher than 8th until I see how the other teams look at the start of the season.

+1

No way you can put the Knicks above the Hawks and the Bucks until they prove it.

Oh that's BS!!! Clearly Mia is now top 3 and we haven't seen them play yet. This team has plenty fire power, balance and players that fit the system. Right at the top of the team you have Amare, Felton, Gallo and that's a very good core group. Then you can add solid role players like AZ, Chan, TD & Turiaf. The X Factor is AR. I think he's gonna end up being a more talented version of Camby as he matures. People say AR is too think for C, but Camby survived and he's still not a physical beast. It's not about that.

Basically this team has all the components needed to be in that 2nd tier of the East on par with Bucks and Hawks. In what way are we inferior to the Hawks? The Bucks have a nice team, but I think we're deeper and more talented overall. Stop looking at what this team was and just look at the current roster in relation to the rest of the East.

Another thing is that the learning curve isn't as steep since Donnie brought in players that come from similar systems. Amare, AZ, Turiaf, AR and Mason can all play fast. We have more defensive minded players now too. Name the player in our rotation that isn't willing to defend! The worst guy is Gallo and he's shown that he wants to defend and play hard. It's just not rational to lay the past on this roster. We couldn't be more different from the last few years.

Bro, you seriously write the same thing every year so it's very hard to take whatever you say about the team seriously. It's one thing to be optimistic, it's another to start calling people out when you have been seen here praising Isiah and the roster before every season, only to be proven wrong time and time again.

Why don't we just wait and see how it comes together? The roster is built on potential. It could go either way. It could end up being a good thing or a really bad thing. We'll see.

I don't believe I was wrong about the team 2 years ago. There have been circumstances which played a part in the team not playing up to the level of the talent we had. I think the team could've been .500 if they kept Zach and Jamal. Now I didn't WANT them to keep them, cuz I understood what the goal was, but that did change things and effected the results I predicted. Intangibles and unexpected changes to the team, by trade or injury has been part of many of the seasons the last few years. So I don't feel bad about my predictions. I feel bad that guys like Curry and Steph didn't hold up their end of the bargain. I feel bad that we had a ton of selfish players that lied and said they were in it for the team and then during the season showed their true colors.

Now back to the present. None of the teams of the past has anything to do with Amare, Felton, AR, AZ, Turiaf, Mason, Timo, Rautins or Fields. By my count that's a majority of the team turning over and so I see no reason to base my predictions on what the team did or didn't do the last few years. If the team didn't meet up to my predictions then it has NOTHING to do with this year. SO STOP BRINGIN THAT ISH UP!!!!

If you've got somethin of substance to add as to why this team shouldn't be expected to do well this year then add it. Just stop whining about what I said in the past and putting that stench of the past on this years team. I didn't just say "THEY GONNA WIN" and not put out reasons to support my stance. I always explain my reasoning. What's your reason for why the team can't compete with the other playoff teams like Bucks, Hawks, Bulls etc.

Childs2Dudley wrote:What's my reason? The Knicks haven't made the playoffs in 9 years and all those teams you listed made the playoffs last year and only got better this offseason.

Why am I going to put the Knicks ahead of them all of a sudden? Because we got Amare? That's good and all but those teams also have Rose & Boozer & Noah, Jennings & Bogut & now Maggette and Johnson, Horford, Smith, etc.

Our team improved but so did everyone else. It's natural for you and others to overrate our team every year. Obviously there is a homer in all of us, some more than others. But to be upset and at a loss for words because people actually consider teams that made the playoffs last year better teams than the Knicks is absurd.

We didn't get Wade, LeBron and Bosh. We got Amare and some nice young pieces and role players. We need those guys to come together and play well to have a good season. They are still question marks and question marks aren't sure things. You're saying the team is better than those teams listed. I say right now they aren't and we have to wait and see. JWallace repeated that sentiment and you attacked him.

It's not whining btw. It's cold, hard facts. How many times did you attack people because they didn't like the makeup of the Isiah roster? Why not just have a wait and see approach instead of making the same prediction every year? the Knicks could have a lineup of old ladies and you'd still be out there stumping for them as a playoff contender. That's cool and all but don't insult another poster about their opinion when yours have been wrong in the past.

Now back to the present and what is most relevant. Whereas I couldn't endorse the character or heart of those past teams, I can say that I like the character of the players added. I think most have shown that they play with pride and heart and more than that they play smart and take pride in defense. What you fail to have addressed is how improved the roster makeup is in terms of natural defenders. We've always been too stocked with offensive minded players that were known not to defend. Not anymore.

This roster isn't just about adding Amare. We replaced our best performing player with an All Star and easily top 3 pick at his position, but we also kept the best of our young and talented players. Players we can reasonably expect to continue to grow. The player that keeps getting overlooked is Felton. He's a solid pure PG that defends. This is no small thing. An unselfish PG that can push the MDA pace and more importantly is a tough defender will make a huge difference in the success of this team. He's not a career backup or inexperienced combo guard we're trying to teach the position. Overall this teams more balanced than we've had in years. You make no mention of the length and athleticism of this team now. As I mentioned in an earlier post, most of these players are used to playing fast and actually play better in a fast pace offense. That includes a kid like Timo. That is solid GM work by Donnie. To me it's an insult to bring up the past 9 years and this team which was constructed with care and forethought. This isn't a patchwork, scrape the bottom of the barrel team we've been used to. Young yes, but well put together. The players make sense together.

Further don't bring up my past predictions as it that has anything to do with my reasoning this year. Every year I take a fresh look and make up my mind. It may end up being wrong but I have always given clear rationale for my opinion. I still haven't seen any in depth breakdown from you or some of the others as to why this team shouldn't be in the mix with the other playoff teams from 4-7. What exactly will be the downfall of the team? What aspect of the game will give us trouble to the extent that we won't be competitive with those playoff contenders?

Amare - D. Lee = more than anything thing Amare is a presence. Lee was a solid performer, but he didn't strike fear in opposing defenders. You simply MUST pay attention to Amare at all times. Amare avg'd nearly 8 Free throw attempts per game! David was at about 4. Teams weren't really keying on Lee. Trust me there's a difference in how Amare gets his points. People rank on Amare's D, but no one could be much worse than Lee. He had a near 0 intimidation factor.

Felton - Duhon = This is interesting in that Duhon would be a fine backup, but in terms of being a true starter, there's no comparison. We haven't been able to run the coach's offense for the last 2 years, primarily because Duhon couldn't do it. Tho Felton isn't known as a shooter, he's more dependable than Duhon. Then there's the whole penetration deal. Duhon used to tremble in fear of driving to the hole. Felton is strong and fearless. The improvement he brings is no small change.

Without going into much more detail those 2 guys right there substantially change the way this team plays. Everyone else plays off of those two and their games will be 1,000x easier due to the attention they will draw. A quick agile pass 1st PG that can shoot and dunk on you if you're not paying attention paired with a PnR PF that will also dunk at the drop of a hat and can pop a J on you, changes everything. Duhon/Lee was like a crippled version of what Amare/Felton should be. Have I seen them together? NO! But I have a reason to expect that they should be good together. They actually know each other and aren't strangers. I'm sure Amare will remind him of where he likes the ball.

Amare will LOVE felton for one thing. DEFENSE! He's NEVER played with a PG that actually defends his position. I think Amare will like that very much and it will help him to hold down the middle better along with Turiaf, AR etc.

Childs2Dudley wrote:

nixluva wrote:

JohnWallace44 wrote:

Childs2Dudley wrote:I can't rank the Knicks higher than 8th until I see how the other teams look at the start of the season.

+1

No way you can put the Knicks above the Hawks and the Bucks until they prove it.

Oh that's BS!!! Clearly Mia is now top 3 and we haven't seen them play yet. This team has plenty fire power, balance and players that fit the system. Right at the top of the team you have Amare, Felton, Gallo and that's a very good core group. Then you can add solid role players like AZ, Chan, TD & Turiaf. The X Factor is AR. I think he's gonna end up being a more talented version of Camby as he matures. People say AR is too think for C, but Camby survived and he's still not a physical beast. It's not about that.

Basically this team has all the components needed to be in that 2nd tier of the East on par with Bucks and Hawks. In what way are we inferior to the Hawks? The Bucks have a nice team, but I think we're deeper and more talented overall. Stop looking at what this team was and just look at the current roster in relation to the rest of the East.

Another thing is that the learning curve isn't as steep since Donnie brought in players that come from similar systems. Amare, AZ, Turiaf, AR and Mason can all play fast. We have more defensive minded players now too. Name the player in our rotation that isn't willing to defend! The worst guy is Gallo and he's shown that he wants to defend and play hard. It's just not rational to lay the past on this roster. We couldn't be more different from the last few years.

Bro, you seriously write the same thing every year so it's very hard to take whatever you say about the team seriously. It's one thing to be optimistic, it's another to start calling people out when you have been seen here praising Isiah and the roster before every season, only to be proven wrong time and time again.

Why don't we just wait and see how it comes together? The roster is built on potential. It could go either way. It could end up being a good thing or a really bad thing. We'll see.

Koumbare, don't waste your breath. I got done reading his posts long ago. Its like eating a bowl of sugar everytime you sit at your computer.

nixluva wrote:Oh You too!?! Well instead of just making empty statements why not layout some rationale for why you think i'm wrong specifically. This is a forum where we're regularly asked to explain our positions. I've made several posts explaining mine and backing up my opinions for why i'm predicting a good team. Just what did I say that didn't make sense or wasn't supported by stats, player history, style of play, team makeup etc.? This crap about my posts always being the same is fine, but why not refute my position with something substantial of your own. All of you guys are doing what's been easy for the last few years. It's easy to just sit back and say the team stinks and won't win simply based on recent history.

My predictions have been only slightly more positive than a lot of other members of this forum. It's not like i've been saying the team is gonna win 50 every year. Do the last two years even count when we all knew that the team was gonna look for every opportunity to tear the roster down? I mean how serious could anyone really take predictions from the last two years? I don't think I was off base with what i've said so far. So now instead of attacking my past predictions, why not show us why you don't have faith in this current roster being successful this year. Some of my reasoning is just above, where's yours? You haven't written anything of substance in this thread yet.

Yeah, me too.
I'm not saying you're wrong about this coming year. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
In fact, I'm excited about it, whether we win 50 or not.
But you overrate the team every single year since I've been reading this forum, and come back every year and do it again.
You want a prediction? Here's one. In the Melo thread this morning you wrote this:

nixluva wrote:I just can't be worried about what this guy does. We have a young team and a comfortable cap structure. We watched this guy not win a title or even get to the finals with some really talented teams. Heck his supporting cast has been better than Lebrons. Even without Melo the Nuggets are still a good team. SO why do we gut our team just to bring in this guy? I'm not saying that I don't like his talent, but he may be a bit overrated.

I'll bet the house that if the Knicks acquire Melo, you'll be jumping up and down how great Melo is, and now you're so happy we're a lock to get to the ECF!

Your posts are all the same man, no objectivity, Knicks can do no wrong.
You're just a cheerleader jumping up and down waving your pom-poms.
I got tired of reading them long ago, and pretty much skip over them now.

Panos wrote:

nixluva wrote:Oh You too!?! Well instead of just making empty statements why not layout some rationale for why you think i'm wrong specifically. This is a forum where we're regularly asked to explain our positions. I've made several posts explaining mine and backing up my opinions for why i'm predicting a good team. Just what did I say that didn't make sense or wasn't supported by stats, player history, style of play, team makeup etc.? This crap about my posts always being the same is fine, but why not refute my position with something substantial of your own. All of you guys are doing what's been easy for the last few years. It's easy to just sit back and say the team stinks and won't win simply based on recent history.

My predictions have been only slightly more positive than a lot of other members of this forum. It's not like i've been saying the team is gonna win 50 every year. Do the last two years even count when we all knew that the team was gonna look for every opportunity to tear the roster down? I mean how serious could anyone really take predictions from the last two years? I don't think I was off base with what i've said so far. So now instead of attacking my past predictions, why not show us why you don't have faith in this current roster being successful this year. Some of my reasoning is just above, where's yours? You haven't written anything of substance in this thread yet.

Yeah, me too.
I'm not saying you're wrong about this coming year. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
In fact, I'm excited about it, whether we win 50 or not.
But you overrate the team every single year since I've been reading this forum, and come back every year and do it again.
You want a prediction? Here's one. In the Melo thread this morning you wrote this:

nixluva wrote:I just can't be worried about what this guy does. We have a young team and a comfortable cap structure. We watched this guy not win a title or even get to the finals with some really talented teams. Heck his supporting cast has been better than Lebrons. Even without Melo the Nuggets are still a good team. SO why do we gut our team just to bring in this guy? I'm not saying that I don't like his talent, but he may be a bit overrated.

I'll bet the house that if the Knicks acquire Melo, you'll be jumping up and down how great Melo is, and now you're so happy we're a lock to get to the ECF!

Your posts are all the same man, no objectivity, Knicks can do no wrong.
You're just a cheerleader jumping up and down waving your pom-poms.
I got tired of reading them long ago, and pretty much skip over them now.

I don't think you've seriously read my posts cuz if you did, you'd at least have noticed that I haven't in fact liked everything about the team and never have. I'm a guy that lives on the glass half full side of life and so YEAH, I tend to TALK about the positives more than the negatives, but that's not the same as saying there are no negatives. If I was all pollyanna then why not predict we'd win the division or some other unrealistic outcome. No instead I've been a guy that said 45 wins when other said 40 or 39. That's not really that big of a difference especially since in most cases there was a chance that the team could've came together and won a few more games if 1. Donnie didn't make trades. 2. Donnie actually looked to bring in someone to get the team over the hump. That's not what the last 2 years were about and so the team wasn't given the help it may have needed. Instead we got guys with talent, witness how they played on new teams they went to, but as I said Donnie was looking to break the team down, which I agree with.

You want to tell me that i'm wrong about what the team could've done in terms of wins if we didn't trade Zach and Jamal or even the Jared trade last year that sucked the defense out of the middle of this team. Or that if Donnie wanted to help this team win, but sacrifice some cap flexibility, then he could've done something about the PG position. This team really wasn't that far off from being competitive enough to get an 8th seed. Now it's easy to just say "OH NIX is always wrong" after the way the team was stripped the last 2 years, but I stick by my feelings about the talent this team had and that it should've done more.

Now in regards to the current situation. I still am waiting for someone to layout why this team can't do well as some of us have been predicting. Outside of reading something convincing, i'll just have to go with my opinion of the talent we've collected.