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A different perspective on the Melo situation. It's the Knicks or Bust.
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bernard
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8/19/2010  10:13 AM
He does have leverage -- and that applies to us, too. Let's assume the rumors are true and first prize for him is playing for the Knicks on a 2010 max contract ASAP. The question is, what is 2nd prize? Playing for Orlando, the Nets or someone else on a 2010 max contract ASAP, or waiting until his deal expires and playing for the Knicks starting next year at whatever the new CBA (if there is one) sets as the new max. If we believe he really wants to come here more than anything, I agree with those who've said wait until next year and pick him up as a FA. Then we look to trade Gallo or AR for a true center.

Problem is, I think it's unlikely that he's that dead set on playing for the Knicks that he'd sacrifice the bigger pay day and security to do so. If we want him badly, we try to do the deal but don't overpay because Denver has very little leverage here. It's a really interesting negotiation, that's for sure -- one where GMs' poker skills are at the forefront.

My take -- he's worth Gallo or AR, Curry and a pick. He's a top 5 to 10 player, a max player IMO. I don't think he's one dimensional as some have claimed. He rebounds and passes well. And he's a guy you can give the ball to at crunch time with confidence he'll make a play. Aren't that many around.

AUTOADVERT
grillco
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8/19/2010  10:39 AM
Marv wrote:btw anyone else thinking how if denver had really wanted to re-sign him then why the hell did they offer him 3 years when all the other top fa's got 5 or 6? how is he supposed to feel about that?

I think they can only offer him a three year extension prior to him becoming an unrestricted free agent under the current CBA. It's his impending free agency that has Denver making the three year offer at all. In an attempt to avoid losing him, they are offering a max extension deal of three years that will pay him than he'll be able to make as a free agent if he opts out (which we are all being lead to believe is his ultimate plan).

GodSaveTheKnicks
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8/19/2010  10:50 AM    LAST EDITED: 8/19/2010  1:04 PM
BRIGGS wrote:Exact reason why we don't give them a penny

Did anyone trade for Chris Bosh?

Did anyone trade For Amare Stoudemire?

Did anyone trade for Lebron James?

Did anyone trade for J Johnson?

No No No No No

Were the players patient one year? YES

Can the Knicks be patient on year? YES

If you are going to get something for nothing if you wait--why would you rush it--it makes absolute No sense. Are we going to win a title with carmleo this year as constituted NO F WAY wont happen


CAN we win it if we KEEP our players----YES

So why would we want to break the bank for someone who wants to come here next year? Quite frankly its in our best interests to wait it out. Gallo could be a star AR could be a star--why give them away if you DO NOT HAVE to????

I've flip flopped back and forth as to whether Melo is really worth committing max $ and max years to multiple times but I am 100% sure that I'd rather see this current squad get some run before deciding what to do with guys like Gallo, Randolph etc.

I've been saying this the whole time..the guy wants to be a Knick. Without the extension teams will not give up anything to get him, so why should we?

If one of his people call the Knicks and say hey you need to put a package together or he's going to Dallas, Chicago, Orlando, NJ, wherever then fine...you have a hard decision to make.

Unless that materializes as a realistic possiblity..why trade away picks, prospects or Curry's expiring if you don't have to!

Giving up a huge package for Melo would be the same mistake Isiah made with Eddy Curry giving away the farm for a player when there is NO competition to get his services.

Let's try to elevate the level of discourse in this byeetch. Please
NYKBocker
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8/19/2010  10:51 AM
BRIGGS wrote:Exact reason why we don't give them a penny

Did anyone trade for Chris Bosh?

Did anyone trade For Amare Stoudemire?

Did anyone trade for Lebron James?

Did anyone trade for J Johnson?

No No No No No

Were the players patient one year? YES

Can the Knicks be patient on year? YES

If you are going to get something for nothing if you wait--why would you rush it--it makes absolute No sense. Are we going to win a title with carmleo this year as constituted NO F WAY wont happen


CAN we win it if we KEEP our players----YES

So why would we want to break the bank for someone who wants to come here next year? Quite frankly its in our best interests to wait it out. Gallo could be a star AR could be a star--why give them away if you DO NOT HAVE to????

I am with you BRIGGS. Denver has lost all leverage. They are going to have to keep Melo for the year or take the players we want them to take. This takes "The Mayor" off the table. Curry's contract, Turiaf, TD and a 2nd RD pick is all I am giving them if they want to get something in return for Melo. If not then let them enjoy Melo for 1 more year and say goodbye at the end of the season.

nyk4ever
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8/19/2010  10:52 AM
Marv wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:
Marv wrote:
fishmike wrote:he's just too one dimensional for me. He's been to one more all star game than David Lee. He's got a pretty average shooting %. Thats offset some by the amount of FTs he takes but he's not a great playmaker or defender and he's only a good rebounder.

He could be a nice option in the offseason

he's been to 2 more all-star games than lee.

in last kyear's 6-gaem series agasinate tahe jazz he averaged 30.7 points, 8.5 rebounds and 3.2 assists' he recorded double-doubles in each of the last three games of the series.

you like apples, fish? well how you like THEM apples?

startin the fruity drinks early today marv?

nah. i keep asking them not to but starbucks keeps spiking my coffee.

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
NYKBocker
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8/19/2010  10:56 AM
bernard wrote:He does have leverage -- and that applies to us, too. Let's assume the rumors are true and first prize for him is playing for the Knicks on a 2010 max contract ASAP. The question is, what is 2nd prize? Playing for Orlando, the Nets or someone else on a 2010 max contract ASAP, or waiting until his deal expires and playing for the Knicks starting next year at whatever the new CBA (if there is one) sets as the new max. If we believe he really wants to come here more than anything, I agree with those who've said wait until next year and pick him up as a FA. Then we look to trade Gallo or AR for a true center.

Problem is, I think it's unlikely that he's that dead set on playing for the Knicks that he'd sacrifice the bigger pay day and security to do so. If we want him badly, we try to do the deal but don't overpay because Denver has very little leverage here. It's a really interesting negotiation, that's for sure -- one where GMs' poker skills are at the forefront.

My take -- he's worth Gallo or AR, Curry and a pick. He's a top 5 to 10 player, a max player IMO. I don't think he's one dimensional as some have claimed. He rebounds and passes well. And he's a guy you can give the ball to at crunch time with confidence he'll make a play. Aren't that many around.

Melo's value is high but not at this moment. It is a buyers market right now for Melo. They will not get equal value. I think Melo stays in Denver one more year and jump ship and then he will take his talent to Seventh Avenue.

franco12
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8/19/2010  11:08 AM
its too bad we've given up so many first round picks.

Curry, Chandler and a pair of first rounders would have been nice, more than they'd get in the off season where you might do a S&T for picks.

Given the situation, there is no way I give up Gallo or AR.

Biggamer3
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8/19/2010  12:19 PM
Why is Boubous, Butler and 2 crappy first rounds much better of an offer then Galo + Wilson + 1st rounder?
fishmike
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8/19/2010  12:37 PM
franco12 wrote:its too bad we've given up so many first round picks.

Curry, Chandler and a pair of first rounders would have been nice, more than they'd get in the off season where you might do a S&T for picks.

Given the situation, there is no way I give up Gallo or AR.

exactly... just no need
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
knickstorrents
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8/19/2010  12:41 PM
BRIGGS wrote:Exact reason why we don't give them a penny

Did anyone trade for Chris Bosh?

Did anyone trade For Amare Stoudemire?

Did anyone trade for Lebron James?

Did anyone trade for J Johnson?

No No No No No

Were the players patient one year? YES

Can the Knicks be patient on year? YES

If you are going to get something for nothing if you wait--why would you rush it--it makes absolute No sense. Are we going to win a title with carmleo this year as constituted NO F WAY wont happen


CAN we win it if we KEEP our players----YES

So why would we want to break the bank for someone who wants to come here next year? Quite frankly its in our best interests to wait it out. Gallo could be a star AR could be a star--why give them away if you DO NOT HAVE to????

+1 - you're the man Briggs!!

Rose is not the answer.
Moonangie
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8/19/2010  2:44 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/20/2010  10:13 AM
Patience will be a virtue here. Gallo won't get enough play here once Melo is our 3. If the deal is Curry + Gallo + future protected first rounder, get Melo now. Otherwise, we can hold pat and use Gallo to upgrade our 2 this summer, or even package Felton and Gallo to help us get CP3 this summer. But I am not at all interested in gutting our core for Melo. He doesn't add enough. We have a solid scoring front line as built.

I trust Walsh to be patient. Not gwine starphuck our way back to mediocrity and inflexibility.

BTW, Gallo is currently my favorite NYK player. Has been since the middle of last season. I love his grit, his shooting stroke, his defensive tenacity, etc. I just don't see him getting adequate burn here with Melo at the 3. AR is a better option at the 4/5 split than Gallo (who can't play center). Also, AR bring skills Gallo doesn't have (i.e., blocking, help defense, getting to the line, etc.)

Gallo is going to be special, but just might not have a future role in NY if we sign Melo. And that's starting to look real likely these days.

tkf
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8/19/2010  5:13 PM
BRIGGS wrote:Exact reason why we don't give them a penny

Did anyone trade for Chris Bosh?

Did anyone trade For Amare Stoudemire?

Did anyone trade for Lebron James?

Did anyone trade for J Johnson?

No No No No No

Were the players patient one year? YES

Can the Knicks be patient on year? YES

If you are going to get something for nothing if you wait--why would you rush it--it makes absolute No sense. Are we going to win a title with carmleo this year as constituted NO F WAY wont happen


CAN we win it if we KEEP our players----YES

So why would we want to break the bank for someone who wants to come here next year? Quite frankly its in our best interests to wait it out. Gallo could be a star AR could be a star--why give them away if you DO NOT HAVE to????


bingo!!

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Panos
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8/19/2010  5:21 PM
BRIGGS wrote:Exact reason why we don't give them a penny

Did anyone trade for Chris Bosh?

Did anyone trade For Amare Stoudemire?

Did anyone trade for Lebron James?

Did anyone trade for J Johnson?

No No No No No

Were the players patient one year? YES

Can the Knicks be patient on year? YES

If you are going to get something for nothing if you wait--why would you rush it--it makes absolute No sense. Are we going to win a title with carmleo this year as constituted NO F WAY wont happen


CAN we win it if we KEEP our players----YES

So why would we want to break the bank for someone who wants to come here next year? Quite frankly its in our best interests to wait it out. Gallo could be a star AR could be a star--why give them away if you DO NOT HAVE to????


Yet another reason, is that even if we whiff on Carmelo, we still have the cap space to make a deal for another top caliber player either through FA (CP3) or use Gallo, or whoever else is being advocated to trade now, later.
We're not against the ropes here.

scoshin
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8/19/2010  5:48 PM
If the deal only includes Gallo and Chandler, we have to pull the trigger. Gallo would have to play out of position (which would push Amare to center) or off the bench if we got Melo, and Chandler is a goner anyway, since we'd have to renounce his rights to sign Melo in 2011. If such a deal is on the table, you can't hesitate just cause you "think" you can sign Melo in 2011. That's too big of a risk when we can secure the player now without losing much depth, and still have room for Chris Paul in 2012. If they ask for Gallo AND Randolph AND Chandler, we turn them away.

Here's just a handful of things that can go wrong with signing Melo in 2011:

1) Melo signs an extension before June 30th, 2011. The fact that he's not signing one now does not mean he won't sign one after the trade deadline, especially if there's still no new CBA in place and a lockout is impending.

2) Melo gets traded to a playoff team or a hometown team (Brooklyn Nets/Washington Wizards) and convinces Melo to sign an extension. This is what people who preach patience should fear the most. Despite what this article says, it's already been reported that Melo would be interested in the Nets and Houston, and I wouldn't be surprised if more teams like Portland, Dallas, Orlando, and Washington are added to that list. Several of those teams can beat our package of Chandler and Curry.

3) Melo signs with another team in 2011, despite leading us on all year. You know, kind of like what LeBron did this year. Nets still have cap space for 2011, and so does Washington -- both hometown teams for Melo. I don't really see this happening though. If Melo doesn't sign an extension with any team and actually becomes a FA in 2011, then I'm pretty sure Knicks are his destination. But my gut tells me that Melo really wants an extension, which is why he's been pushing for a trade as early as August. Knicks may be his top choice, but as time passes, other teams will be added to his "list."

scoshin
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8/19/2010  5:50 PM
Panos wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Exact reason why we don't give them a penny

Did anyone trade for Chris Bosh?

Did anyone trade For Amare Stoudemire?

Did anyone trade for Lebron James?

Did anyone trade for J Johnson?

No No No No No

Were the players patient one year? YES

Can the Knicks be patient on year? YES

If you are going to get something for nothing if you wait--why would you rush it--it makes absolute No sense. Are we going to win a title with carmleo this year as constituted NO F WAY wont happen


CAN we win it if we KEEP our players----YES

So why would we want to break the bank for someone who wants to come here next year? Quite frankly its in our best interests to wait it out. Gallo could be a star AR could be a star--why give them away if you DO NOT HAVE to????


Yet another reason, is that even if we whiff on Carmelo, we still have the cap space to make a deal for another top caliber player either through FA (CP3) or use Gallo, or whoever else is being advocated to trade now, later.
We're not against the ropes here.

Except CP3 is really the only top caliber player left that's hitting the market in 2 years. Maybe Deron too. I don't see Dwight leaving Orlando and Durant still has 4-5 more years in OKC. If we do whiff on Melo, then we're putting all our eggs in the CP3 basket.

TMS
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8/19/2010  6:13 PM
gotta love the line of reasoning on these boards... people are perfectly willing to give away draft picks & prospects to clear cap room for a slim chance at signing a player in free agency but not willing to trade away a couple prospects for an established superstar in his prime.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
loweyecue
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8/19/2010  6:33 PM
TMS wrote:gotta love the line of reasoning on these boards... people are perfectly willing to give away draft picks & prospects to clear cap room for a slim chance at signing a player in free agency but not willing to trade away a couple prospects for an established superstar in his prime.

Not sure who this is directed at, I was OK wih the Hill trade, I would definitely be ok with this trade as well. But it would hurt to see Gallo leave, I have really takn to liking this kid.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
tj23
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8/19/2010  7:11 PM
BRIGGS wrote:Exact reason why we don't give them a penny

Did anyone trade for Chris Bosh?

Did anyone trade For Amare Stoudemire?

Did anyone trade for Lebron James?

Did anyone trade for J Johnson?

No No No No No

Were the players patient one year? YES

Can the Knicks be patient on year? YES

If you are going to get something for nothing if you wait--why would you rush it--it makes absolute No sense. Are we going to win a title with carmleo this year as constituted NO F WAY wont happen


CAN we win it if we KEEP our players----YES

So why would we want to break the bank for someone who wants to come here next year? Quite frankly its in our best interests to wait it out. Gallo could be a star AR could be a star--why give them away if you DO NOT HAVE to????


If we are only giving up say... Curry and Chandler(I like Chandler but he has 1 yr left and may not be brought back. )then why not do it now? And what if Melo changes his mind and is all of a sudden willing to play for another team? I would hate to miss out because we refused to give up 1 or 2 decent pkayers.
EwingsGlass
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8/19/2010  8:15 PM
knickstorrents wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Exact reason why we don't give them a penny

Did anyone trade for Chris Bosh?

Did anyone trade For Amare Stoudemire?

Did anyone trade for Lebron James?

Did anyone trade for J Johnson?

No No No No No

Were the players patient one year? YES

Can the Knicks be patient on year? YES

If you are going to get something for nothing if you wait--why would you rush it--it makes absolute No sense. Are we going to win a title with carmleo this year as constituted NO F WAY wont happen


CAN we win it if we KEEP our players----YES

So why would we want to break the bank for someone who wants to come here next year? Quite frankly its in our best interests to wait it out. Gallo could be a star AR could be a star--why give them away if you DO NOT HAVE to????

+1 - you're the man Briggs!!

I agree with you. I am just going to point out that getting Melo next year isn't for free. By staying under the cap next July 1, they have the ability to sign Melo to a max contract after they renounce their free agents. By trading for him now, they can keep any restricted free agents or bird rights players they have left and they can sign an MLE player and a LLE player.

So, with that in mind, if the trade was:

Gallo
Curry
Future #1

for

Melo
re-signed Azu
re-signed Turiaf
re-signed Chandler
a veteran player at the MLE $5.8M
and a veteran player at the LLE ($2.2M)

It has to make you pause and think.

You know I gonna spin wit it
WindsorPl
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8/20/2010  1:33 AM
TMS wrote:gotta love the line of reasoning on these boards... people are perfectly willing to give away draft picks & prospects to clear cap room for a slim chance at signing a player in free agency but not willing to trade away a couple prospects for an established superstar in his prime.

Humans will always pay more for what they want but can't have (Lebron) and pay less for what they want but can have (Melo wants to come anyway).
nitpick: I don't think Melo is a superstar yet.

A different perspective on the Melo situation. It's the Knicks or Bust.

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