fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:37 wins that is about right. That is what I expect from the Knicks this year. They only win more if Gallo and chandler step it up if they don't then 36 wins is pretty accurate.

why? 37 wins is a losing team. What is this Knicks team lacking that will result in a sub .500 schedule

2 things - time together to develop cohesion & answers to all the question marks.

Correct me if I am wrong, but we added just two players that come from winning franchises- all the other players we're drooling over came from G State.

Will Gallo be able to take the next step?

Can AR start to live up to his potential and was the situation in G State just a bad one for him

Will Azubuike be healthy? And if/when he is, what kind of production does he give us?

I think that there are too many unknowns to call for more than 37'ish wins.

Yes, if everything clicks together, then we could be talking about a win total somewhere in the 40s.

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:37 wins that is about right. That is what I expect from the Knicks this year. They only win more if Gallo and chandler step it up if they don't then 36 wins is pretty accurate.

why? 37 wins is a losing team. What is this Knicks team lacking that will result in a sub .500 schedule

2 things - time together to develop cohesion & answers to all the question marks.

Correct me if I am wrong, but we added just two players that come from winning franchises- all the other players we're drooling over came from G State.

Will Gallo be able to take the next step?

Can AR start to live up to his potential and was the situation in G State just a bad one for him

Will Azubuike be healthy? And if/when he is, what kind of production does he give us?

I think that there are too many unknowns to call for more than 37'ish wins.

Yes, if everything clicks together, then we could be talking about a win total somewhere in the 40s.

Franco pretty much summed up my thoughts. Just to many question marks and ifs.

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:37 wins that is about right. That is what I expect from the Knicks this year. They only win more if Gallo and chandler step it up if they don't then 36 wins is pretty accurate.

why? 37 wins is a losing team. What is this Knicks team lacking that will result in a sub .500 schedule

Only thing proven on the Knicks is Amare after that what do the Knicks have. A bunch of ??? and ifs. Will Gallo, Chandler, Douglass and AR take the next step in their progression? Will the team put it together? Will players be healthy Azuibuke and Curry (which I consider a lost cause). To many unanswered questions for this team to be thinking over 40+ wins, 36 at minimum is what I think they will win. If all these factors come together then maybe the win total gets better but there is no proof of it as of yet. Until the proof comes in you can't say 40+ or even 50 wins. Predicting the first winning season for this current unit probably the most difficult to do since we don't have any evidence to go by. We haven't seen how they play defense or offense for that matter. I always felt that the first 20 games tell you a lot of the team. If they are hovering around 10-10 you are looking at a 500 team. 12-8 possible a better than a 500 team for the season. 8-12 team your looking at a possible 8th seed to no playoffs. If the Knicks come out of the gate at 14-6 team is making the playoffs anywhere from 3-6 seed. The first 20 games will let you know everything about this current Knicks team.

Gallo and Chandler are not unproven. Both are at the worst solid rotation guys who will fill out the stat sheet, play some D and score from and in a variety of ways.

I would say we say enough from Douglas to be comfortable as the backup PG and scorer off the bench. Maybe not great but certainly a guy who will score and defend and shoot the ball well. This is no Anthony Robertson.

Amare is coming off another great season where he was healthy. 5 time all star 27 years old.

This is a solid rotation with a lot of size and skill and athleticism build around a solid PG and an all star frontcourt player.

Certainly what you get from Turiaf, Azu, Drago, Randolph and drafted guys are unknown, but we are not banking the season on one of these guys going for 20/10 and being an all star.

We were a 30 win team with zero defense, no play makers, no PG and no size. Sorry. This is a 42-45 win team right now because there is an established coach with established players. Of course anything can happen but with the size and skill we have with upside its FAR more likely that we play better that 45 wins than play below it.

My god.. we are +.500 with Duhon, Crawford, Zach, Lee and QRich starting before Walsh blew it up.

People here are so used to everything sucking that they assume its a foregone conclusion. Amare, Gallo and Chandler all have played under MDA and know whats expected. Thats 3/5 of your starters. This is a good team loaded with size, skill and good young players. Felton/Amare will stabilize the thing right out of the gate. Only big injuries are going to derail this team from being good. I'm not talking 60 wins here. 45-37 is the median, not the high end.

As far as Gallo and Chandler they are solid players but they have to take the next step and take their game to higher level. I'm expecting that to happen but if they don't they are the same player as last year and that isn't going to cut it. Between AR, Chandler and Gallo these guys have to step it up if the Knicks are to win more than 40+ games. Amare won't be able to do it on his own he is going to need someone to step up and be consistent with him night in and night out.

As of now I am saying 36 wins. For me it all about whether Gallo, Chandler and AR take it up a notch in their games. If they don't do it 36 at best.

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:37 wins that is about right. That is what I expect from the Knicks this year. They only win more if Gallo and chandler step it up if they don't then 36 wins is pretty accurate.

why? 37 wins is a losing team. What is this Knicks team lacking that will result in a sub .500 schedule

Only thing proven on the Knicks is Amare after that what do the Knicks have. A bunch of ??? and ifs. Will Gallo, Chandler, Douglass and AR take the next step in their progression? Will the team put it together? Will players be healthy Azuibuke and Curry (which I consider a lost cause). To many unanswered questions for this team to be thinking over 40+ wins, 36 at minimum is what I think they will win. If all these factors come together then maybe the win total gets better but there is no proof of it as of yet. Until the proof comes in you can't say 40+ or even 50 wins. Predicting the first winning season for this current unit probably the most difficult to do since we don't have any evidence to go by. We haven't seen how they play defense or offense for that matter. I always felt that the first 20 games tell you a lot of the team. If they are hovering around 10-10 you are looking at a 500 team. 12-8 possible a better than a 500 team for the season. 8-12 team your looking at a possible 8th seed to no playoffs. If the Knicks come out of the gate at 14-6 team is making the playoffs anywhere from 3-6 seed. The first 20 games will let you know everything about this current Knicks team.

arent you missing someone? Felton may not be Steve Nash but he's a very good player from a playoff team as well. Felton plays very good defense (look at 82 games for proof). He's fast and heady and plays hard. So the Knicks have a head out there who defends at the PG position and makes plays. At the worst he's good. At the best he flourishes under this system and reaches the potential draft experts thought he had at NC.

Gallo and Chandler are not unproven. Both are at the worst solid rotation guys who will fill out the stat sheet, play some D and score from and in a variety of ways.

I would say we say enough from Douglas to be comfortable as the backup PG and scorer off the bench. Maybe not great but certainly a guy who will score and defend and shoot the ball well. This is no Anthony Robertson.

Amare is coming off another great season where he was healthy. 5 time all star 27 years old.

This is a solid rotation with a lot of size and skill and athleticism build around a solid PG and an all star frontcourt player.

Certainly what you get from Turiaf, Azu, Drago, Randolph and drafted guys are unknown, but we are not banking the season on one of these guys going for 20/10 and being an all star.

We were a 30 win team with zero defense, no play makers, no PG and no size. Sorry. This is a 42-45 win team right now because there is an established coach with established players. Of course anything can happen but with the size and skill we have with upside its FAR more likely that we play better that 45 wins than play below it.

My god.. we are +.500 with Duhon, Crawford, Zach, Lee and QRich starting before Walsh blew it up.

People here are so used to everything sucking that they assume its a foregone conclusion. Amare, Gallo and Chandler all have played under MDA and know whats expected. Thats 3/5 of your starters. This is a good team loaded with size, skill and good young players. Felton/Amare will stabilize the thing right out of the gate. Only big injuries are going to derail this team from being good. I'm not talking 60 wins here. 45-37 is the median, not the high end.

Small sample size there to point out when we were actually a five hundred squad. Luck, I think, had as much to do with it as skill.

Gallo and Chandler, I think, have only proven to be somewhat inconsistent- they show flashes of being very good, and then disappear for long stretches.

I think its a lot to ask as many new parts to come in and instantly gel and turn this franchise around.

And I still worry about the Melo factor hanging around just like we had LBJ hanging over this franchise's head.

Vmart wrote:Fish, don't think Felton isn't a question mark either. Can he grasp the system, can he have another productive season after his first true productive season last year. Now he is changing systems can he still have the same results? I don't know and no one knows until it is proven. This is a 36 win team at best until proven otherwise.
As far as Gallo and Chandler they are solid players but they have to take the next step and take their game to higher level. I'm expecting that to happen but if they don't they are the same player as last year and that isn't going to cut it. Between AR, Chandler and Gallo these guys have to step it up if the Knicks are to win more than 40+ games. Amare won't be able to do it on his own he is going to need someone to step up and be consistent with him night in and night out.

As of now I am saying 36 wins. For me it all about whether Gallo, Chandler and AR take it up a notch in their games. If they don't do it 36 at best.

Chandler and Gallo are already good rotation guys. Felton is a good PG and you have a 5 time all star in the frontcourt.

I keep waiting for you to tell me the reason the Knicks will lose 46 games.

Size? defense? Coaching? Healthy?

Funny how people think teams like Chi got much better and all they did is give up their best perimeter defender and shooter for a guy who is only healthy and plays hard in contract years.

Also the East didnt really get better. Miami got better. Boston got more bodies (can you imagine if the Knicks were going to rely on Shaq and Jermaine for anything????). Toronto got much worse. Cle is a 15 win team. Cha took a step back losing their PG (Jordan is a worse GM than Isiah).

I agree there may be an adjustment period, etc, but the Knicks have too much size, skill, defense and scoring to play .400 ball. You also have a coach who has always done well when he's got his players as well.

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:Fish, don't think Felton isn't a question mark either. Can he grasp the system, can he have another productive season after his first true productive season last year. Now he is changing systems can he still have the same results? I don't know and no one knows until it is proven. This is a 36 win team at best until proven otherwise.
As far as Gallo and Chandler they are solid players but they have to take the next step and take their game to higher level. I'm expecting that to happen but if they don't they are the same player as last year and that isn't going to cut it. Between AR, Chandler and Gallo these guys have to step it up if the Knicks are to win more than 40+ games. Amare won't be able to do it on his own he is going to need someone to step up and be consistent with him night in and night out.

As of now I am saying 36 wins. For me it all about whether Gallo, Chandler and AR take it up a notch in their games. If they don't do it 36 at best.

again. You chuck that out there like its fact. So allow me to retort. This is a 45 win team until proven otherwise, probably more if a few feasable things break their way.

Chandler and Gallo are already good rotation guys. Felton is a good PG and you have a 5 time all star in the frontcourt.

I keep waiting for you to tell me the reason the Knicks will lose 46 games.

Size? defense? Coaching? Healthy?

Funny how people think teams like Chi got much better and all they did is give up their best perimeter defender and shooter for a guy who is only healthy and plays hard in contract years.

Also the East didnt really get better. Miami got better. Boston got more bodies (can you imagine if the Knicks were going to rely on Shaq and Jermaine for anything????). Toronto got much worse. Cle is a 15 win team. Cha took a step back losing their PG (Jordan is a worse GM than Isiah).

I agree there may be an adjustment period, etc, but the Knicks have too much size, skill, defense and scoring to play .400 ball. You also have a coach who has always done well when he's got his players as well.

You are telling me if everything goes right. Tell me when things go wrong or things stay the same. What you are doing is speculating on if things go right. I placing my speculations on last year accomplishment of the players. The GS crew that is coming in didn't exactly blow the competition out of the water last year. I'm taking Gallo, Chandler and Douglas based on their accomplishments last year. I'm saying 36 wins as a minimum. What the max is I don't know but AR, Chandler, Gallo, and Douglas I want to see if they are better than last year.

Last year the Knicks won 30 games. I think the addition of Amare and Felton improve the Knicks 6 games. If young players show marked improvement than the total to the 36 will increase.

you'll have a pretty good guage on what this team is capable of by all star break. any prediction of wins/losses prior to that is just a prediction based on emotion as a fan rather than objectivity.