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Article: Mike D'Antoni ain't know Pat Riley
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TMS
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8/1/2010  4:22 PM
firefly wrote:B. I'm so glad MDA is not Pat Riley. The guy is a major loser asswipe. I hate it when people call this guy a winner.

completely disagree... Riley has 5 rings, MDA has none... not much else needs to be said.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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colorfl1
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8/1/2010  4:33 PM
I find this whole article to be slanderous and completely unobjective...

Pat Riley was also planning on letting players go to chase free agent prizes... a good argument can be made that Riley had a stronger roster than the Walsh, how well did his team do last year???

The article completely ignores that players like Curry and Starbury, expect to be treated as stars when they are liabilities. The team cannot rely on them, and you must plan around them while dealing with their egos, selfishness in the locker room. If the argument is to buy these players at the start of the season, that is absurd. You have to try to trade and leverage max expiring deals for a team that may have a need in the season. No one except the knicks buys out players for such vast amounts of money. Ironically, they could not be traded because Isiah was not a GM for another team. & Curry may never be healthy and disciplined to have a career again. This year Curry's deal is an asset... an expiring one... These 2 "Players" hijacked the professionalism of the organization and setback the team culture and chances for stability enormously.

Add to that players like Nate & Harrigton who were looking to pad their stats for their next contract. And that they did not appreciate that they just were not as good as they insisted until the market tis summer showed them that they had serious defecits in their respective games, and are at best supporting players on well disciplined teams.

The shocking disappearance of Duhan's confidence and ability to play baketball contributed heavily to this teams demise. Anyone is free to check the record of the Knicks in games that Duhan played well of the last 2 seasons. Point guard play is the lynchpin to D'Antoni's system.

Considering the lack of interior toughness,it is a miracle this team played as hard as it did most nights.


I do not see the great errors... sure it was sloppy, but it could have been a hell of a lot uglier... this is New York... and everyone knows that the press will kill you when you try to build in New York... rebuilding is too boring, it does not sell papers... the NY media want a good team or a lot of drama. And they are ready to instigate that drama with a team's unprofessional athletes (yes, I am talking about you Mark Berman)...
Either way, there is something to talk about.

Obtaining a former star who can only gimp down the court after playing a few games was necessary for shedding Jefferies ridiculous deal, remember how shocked the media was that someone was actually interested in a player that has no offensive game and is as thin as a stick.

Now of course this was not easy for Walsh and D'antoni to endure and orchestrate, it required playing Jefferies and Harrington heavy minutes.


I actually applaud D'Antoni for how competitive that ragtag of ill-suited players for his system played.

People that went to games found the knicks competing most nights only to get outclassed in the 4th quarter of games. They simply were an ill-conceived team with of young inexperienced players and fading stars who thought they were far better than they are.

How many overtime losses did this team have last year... is that not indicative of effort to compete???

The coach deserves credit for putting his ego aside and taking on this mess, allowing his reputation to get shot by having to be associated with fading star point guard that was losing his mind, treated the Garden and its employees like his personal playground, while showcasing skills that diminished so extensively he is a deficit to any professional team he joins. (And the Celtics highlighted just how extensive his skill set had deminished in the Playoffs).

Add a chronically lazy and overweight center that will go down as one of the greatest big man wastes of talent in our time. Curry's career trajectory was shot the day the NBA changes the roles to fasten the pace of the game, he is not a player with skills for the present NBA, it may have been interesting to see his game in the early '90s, but Ewing and Oakley would have demonstrated how painfully soft a player Eddie Curry is (the man has no heart, just a big vacuum of an appetite, he disgraced the Knick uniform, and teh memory of Willis and Ewing .

In the mean time, D'antoni can hardly create a team culture and identity because pieces were always moving in the middle of the season. And raising the value of your players to move them was always the plan for going into the summer of 2010. Now D'antoni's system in not the easiest system to ajust to mid season... it requires heady ball players that can pass, stretch the floor and be unselfish.

Add to that the fact that Zeke left the team with incredibly un-tradable assets, these simply could not all just be bought out.
It was clear that the Knicks had to unload players and Walsh did this, often mid-season, when no one said her could. And looking at the team they put together this summer, a team that actually makes sense, it was thoroughly worth the sacrifice.

Now, here is the kicker... anyone who watched tis team most nights, saw a team that simply did not have enough talent to compete. Yet, unless they played a championship contender, they generally competed and played exciting ball... they simply did not have the right experienced pieces and the good players they had were really not that good and were certainly ill suited for the style of play the coach was brought here to run.

sidsanders
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8/1/2010  5:11 PM
"they generally competed and played exciting ball" -- no way i agree with that. the team played how it had for years, get down early, come back, lose late. sometimes it won, sometimes it didnt come back. 29 win teams arent playing well.

"The coach deserves credit for putting his ego aside and taking on this mess" -- for being one of the higher paid coaches in the league, he sure made up for this "damage". they went 2-5 in ot games by the way.

bottom line is this is an old blog post. mike has no more excuses to not get this team above 35 wins coming up.

GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
firefly
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8/1/2010  6:08 PM
TMS wrote:
firefly wrote:B. I'm so glad MDA is not Pat Riley. The guy is a major loser asswipe. I hate it when people call this guy a winner.

completely disagree... Riley has 5 rings, MDA has none... not much else needs to be said.

I meant as president. I said that in my next sentance. I'll admit he's succeeded as a coach. However, I give him no credit for the Heat outside of drafting Wade.

Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream things that never were and ask why not?
colorfl1
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8/1/2010  7:07 PM
sidsanders wrote:
"The coach deserves credit for putting his ego aside and taking on this mess" -- for being one of the higher paid coaches in the league, he sure made up for this "damage". they went 2-5 in ot games by the way.

My point was not about wins, my point was about being competitive with a weak and ill conceived team. Whether they won the OT games is not the point. Playing 7 overtime games is indicative of a team that did not quit in spite of the upcoming 2010 overhaul. D'Antoni's team did fall behind as they should have, they were not particularly strong at anything... still more often than not they fought back (except when playing championship calibre teams. That indicates that considering the mid-season overhauls and players about to be disbanded; the team competed and did not quit with him at the helm.

CrushAlot
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8/1/2010  7:36 PM
colorfl1 wrote:
sidsanders wrote:
"The coach deserves credit for putting his ego aside and taking on this mess" -- for being one of the higher paid coaches in the league, he sure made up for this "damage". they went 2-5 in ot games by the way.

My point was not about wins, my point was about being competitive with a weak and ill conceived team. Whether they won the OT games is not the point. Playing 7 overtime games is indicative of a team that did not quit in spite of the upcoming 2010 overhaul. D'Antoni's team did fall behind as they should have, they were not particularly strong at anything... still more often than not they fought back (except when playing championship calibre teams. That indicates that considering the mid-season overhauls and players about to be disbanded; the team competed and did not quit with him at the helm.


I think coming out of training camp with the team you had the year before and going 1-9 isn't competitive. I think winning 29 games and not playing the rookies is mailing it in.,
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
CrushAlot
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8/1/2010  7:48 PM
The coach deserves credit for putting his ego aside and taking on this mess, allowing his reputation to get shot by having to be associated with fading star point guard that was losing his mind, treated the Garden and its employees like his personal playground, while showcasing skills that diminished so extensively he is a deficit to any professional team he joins. (And the Celtics highlighted just how extensive his skill set had deminished in the Playoffs).

The coach took this job because it paid more than Chicago and he was not asked to change and place more of an emphasis on defense. I think he also believed he would have LBJ and another star in place after 09-10.

I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
foosballnick
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8/1/2010  7:52 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
colorfl1 wrote:
sidsanders wrote:
"The coach deserves credit for putting his ego aside and taking on this mess" -- for being one of the higher paid coaches in the league, he sure made up for this "damage". they went 2-5 in ot games by the way.

My point was not about wins, my point was about being competitive with a weak and ill conceived team. Whether they won the OT games is not the point. Playing 7 overtime games is indicative of a team that did not quit in spite of the upcoming 2010 overhaul. D'Antoni's team did fall behind as they should have, they were not particularly strong at anything... still more often than not they fought back (except when playing championship calibre teams. That indicates that considering the mid-season overhauls and players about to be disbanded; the team competed and did not quit with him at the helm.


I think coming out of training camp with the team you had the year before and going 1-9 isn't competitive. I think winning 29 games and not playing the rookies is mailing it in.,

Me thinks that using a Blog Post from 6 months ago and containing Riley, who quit on this franchise and Starbury, who can't even find a job in the NBA .....as a major themes to prove your point is pretty weak. Time to move on and see what MDA can do with an upgraded roster.

colorfl1
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8/1/2010  7:54 PM
CrushAlot wrote:The coach took this job because it paid more than Chicago and he was not asked to change and place more of an emphasis on defense. I think he also believed he would have LBJ and another star in place after 09-10.

The Knicks will have salary space to sign another elite player next year so essentially the coach was right to expect building around 2 elite players.
I believe this team is right on schedule for a drastic rebuilding situations. I wish the knicks would have done this at the end of the Ewing era.

Paladin55
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8/1/2010  8:02 PM
s3231 wrote:
This season, in my opinion, will really help us learn how good of a coach D'Antoni truly is. I don't think this Knicks roster is "stacked" and I think we are a bit young with some redundant pieces. At the same time though, D'Antoni finally has a star player to work with in NY and at least some talent that fits together. As BRIGGS has alluded to in other threads, there are a lot of potential match-up problems the Knicks can use to their advantage and that will fall on the coach.

The way this roster is assembled, it really is a perfect experiment to show if D'Antoni is a top notch coach. The roster doesn't have a ton of talent, but it does have guys that fit together and moreover, fit the system the Coach wants to run. Great situation to see how much of an impact a coach can truly have. An 8th seed, in my opinion, is the realistic goal.

I think this is really how you have to look things this year. Unless we lose players because of injury, MDA has some assets to make use of on this team which are much more talented and diversified than we have had in recent years. In Randolph we also have a young player with tremendous raw talent who had problems with his previous coach- something which some have said has been an issue for MDA in the past.

MDA earns his $$ this year, and it will be interesting to see how he deals with the talent and personalities he has to work with this year.


As for the poster- LivesInNewJersey- the guy obviously has a grudge, and he has basically used a shotgun approach to attack MDA- throwing out most of the things we have heard at one time or another around here. I still have trouble understanding how he segued from Rile leaving the Knicks with a good team to the Donnie Walsh and MDA years, although he does make an attempt to use Riley's book to attack MDA. As soon as I read that I lost some interest though, because I realized that I wasn't going to be reading an objective treatise on MDA's failings as a coach. The attack on Gallinari (who, with Duhon, seem to be the only bad players on the Knicks according to the guy who lives in New Jersey) only confirmed for me that that the writer's agenda was getting in the way of any rational analysis.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
martin
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8/1/2010  10:09 PM
foosballnick wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
colorfl1 wrote:
sidsanders wrote:
"The coach deserves credit for putting his ego aside and taking on this mess" -- for being one of the higher paid coaches in the league, he sure made up for this "damage". they went 2-5 in ot games by the way.

My point was not about wins, my point was about being competitive with a weak and ill conceived team. Whether they won the OT games is not the point. Playing 7 overtime games is indicative of a team that did not quit in spite of the upcoming 2010 overhaul. D'Antoni's team did fall behind as they should have, they were not particularly strong at anything... still more often than not they fought back (except when playing championship calibre teams. That indicates that considering the mid-season overhauls and players about to be disbanded; the team competed and did not quit with him at the helm.


I think coming out of training camp with the team you had the year before and going 1-9 isn't competitive. I think winning 29 games and not playing the rookies is mailing it in.,

Me thinks that using a Blog Post from 6 months ago and containing Riley, who quit on this franchise and Starbury, who can't even find a job in the NBA .....as a major themes to prove your point is pretty weak. Time to move on and see what MDA can do with an upgraded roster.

this sums the thread up nicely. Are we done and can we stick a fork in this article?

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Article: Mike D'Antoni ain't know Pat Riley

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