eViL wrote:

TMS wrote:Ray Felton... he'd be the 3rd string PG on the New Orleans team right now.

Even if TMS is right bout being third best out of those guys who cares?

No telling what he does here in this offense

Nash didn't Avg over 5 assists his first four years in NBA...... Nor 10 points for that matter
He didn't go over 15 and 7 his first 8 ...... Became MVP type while under this system

Not saying Felton is Nash just saying he still can be very good on our team.
He has Avged 6.6 in career on Bobcats slow down offence had 2 of 4 years over 7.5
10 here is not that far fetched no is 16 points even though i hope more like 12

12 points 10 assist sounds great to me

umynot wrote:
Nash didn't Avg over 5 assists his first four years in NBA...... Nor 10 points for that matter
He didn't go over 15 and 7 his first 8 ...... Became MVP type while under this system

Not saying Felton is Nash just saying he still can be very good on our team.
He has Avged 6.6 in career on Bobcats slow down offence had 2 of 4 years over 7.5
10 here is not that far fetched no is 16 points even though i hope more like 12

12 points 10 assist sounds great to me

actually in effect, you ARE saying he's Steve Nash, or very close to it... Nash averaged 11 apg playing in MDA's system, & this was in his MVP prime... so basically you're projecting Ray Felton to get to within 1 apg of that total this season... sorry, but that's a pipedream.

In the end we may end up not making the deal if the team is clicking on all cylinders to start the season. I'm tellin you right now that Felton is gonna THRIVE in this system. He's been held back by a bad team and recently a coach that is somewhat restrictive. That offensive system he's in now is not good for him. He'll be much more in his element running with us. Then when you add in his strength, athletic ability and defense, you have a guy that is finally gonna get the recognition he deserves. This is a great situation for him. Now when he's puttin up good numbers some of you will see that it's not that important to replace him with CP3. With 35 minutes here in this system he could be an 18/10 player.

canesfan1189 wrote:Felton Sucks. I would trade anything on this team for CP3 but Curry and his expiring contract

The problem with including randolph and gallo for chris paul is not Knicks losing them, but tricking NO into taking it

You really are new

umynot wrote:

TMS wrote:

umynot wrote:
Nash didn't Avg over 5 assists his first four years in NBA...... Nor 10 points for that matter
He didn't go over 15 and 7 his first 8 ...... Became MVP type while under this system

Not saying Felton is Nash just saying he still can be very good on our team.
He has Avged 6.6 in career on Bobcats slow down offence had 2 of 4 years over 7.5
10 here is not that far fetched no is 16 points even though i hope more like 12

12 points 10 assist sounds great to me

actually in effect, you ARE saying he's Steve Nash, or very close to it... Nash averaged 11 apg playing in MDA's system, & this was in his MVP prime... so basically you're projecting Ray Felton to get to within 1 apg of that total this season... sorry, but that's a pipedream.

Nash avged 17 and 11 in MVP seasons under this system

He also took a dip in production and everyone said he was done 2 years ago
comes back to same system numbers go back up

Nash could never defend

So u never know how good felton can be in this system
No way he shoots like Nash but pass like him I say he is very capable

All while be a willing defender

so let me get this straight... you got Steve Nash, a HOF PG who in his MVP prime averaged 17 & 11 playing in MDA's system, & some of you think Ray Felton could put up 16 & 10 playing in the same system on a roster with less talent... riiiiight.

Just because Nash had enormous success with a run and gun style, doesn't mean Felton's numbers are going to inflate astronomically.

JrZyHuStLa wrote:The PG runs the system, the system doesn't run the PG.

Just because Nash had enormous success with a run and gun style, doesn't mean Felton's numbers are going to inflate astronomically.

you are absolutely right. however, to me, it's not solely about the system. in recent years, chauncey billups and steve nash are both examples of highly touted PG prospects that took a little longer to come into their own. chauncey emerged in his 6th season. nash had a boost in his 5th and then again in his 9th. sure, that doesn't mean felton will suddenly flourish, but it is evidence that he might not have shown all he has to show yet. color me optimistic.

and regarding going all in on a blockbuster trade for a superstar. it just reminds me of the einstein quote: "the definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results." here i am, excited that the Knicks are trying something new. they reloaded on young assets. they signed a superstar in his prime. they still have flexibility. this is new; this is different. sure, it might not work, but can we at least try something different and give it a chance to work before immediately locking ourselves into a plan that leaves us no escape?

Paul is literally in a class of his own. For the past 3 seasons, he's shot near 50% from the field, and has gotten an A/TO ratio over 4 in at least two seasons now. In his "down" years, his A/TO ratio has still been over 3.5. MVP Steve Nash has hovered around an A/TO of 3 for most of his Suns career, while Felton has been at 2.5. Marbury, for example, has hovered around 2.8 A/TO in his prime. Even Magic Johnson has never averaged over a 4.0 A/TO ratio.

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Chris%20Paul
http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Steve%20Nash
http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Raymond%20Felton

Paul imo is the best PG to come around since Isiah Thomas and John Stockton.

Now, this doesn't mean I don't think Felton will shine in SSOL. I expect his assist averages to jump up by 3, much the same way Steve Nash's went from 8 to 11.5. 10 apg for Felton should be reachable. The big drawback to Felton though is that for the majority of his NBA career, he's been pretty awful offensively. Not a good finisher at the basket, and until last season, couldn't hit a 3. But he improved significantly last season in both FG and 3-pt %'s, so hopefully we can attribute his horrible scoring stats to being on a piss-poor expansion team his first 4 seasons.

As for Paul...if he were in the SSOL, and got to play with Gallo/Amare, I honestly think he'll average 13-14 apg with us, he's just that good of a point guard. People forget that Stockton averaged that for 5 seasons with Utah, and Magic averaged close to 12-13 with the uptempo Showtime Lakers.

eViL wrote:

scoshin wrote:Anyone suggesting that we don't need Paul cause we have Felton, either has forgotten how good Paul really is or is overhyping Felton.

first, i agree with your overall assessment of paul being a superlative PG talent in the league, but the above quote is an oversimplification of the stance against going after paul.

it's not that we don't need paul because we have felton. it's moreso about what paul will cost us in terms of young assets, depth and future cap flexibility. basically, the way i see it: felton + gallo + randolph + flexibility > paul + no depth + no flexibility.

True, but I'm of the opinion that if there's any trade that at least has us keeping Gallo, I would pull the trigger, even if we lose flexibility by taking on Okafor. The whole point of "flexibility" is to acquire franchise talents like Chris Paul. Randolph/Chandler + expirings for Paul/Okafor is a trade we should make if it's on the table. If NOH is demanding all 3 of our prospects, then yes, I wouldn't give up that much. We'd probably have to wait until they lower their demands or our players build up trade value.

As for having no depth with a Paul trade...I think if we have a core of Paul/Gallo/Amare/Okafor (and then whatever shooting guard Felton can net us), that's good enough to at least challenge the Heat. "Depth" can always be found in FA and the draft, even with late 1sts or 2nd rounders, and having star talents like Paul/Amare (and hopefully Gallo) simply make everyone else look better.

Dreaming here, but screw Melo if this is our team by Feb of 2011:

Paul
Ben Gordon
Gallo
Amare
Okafor

TMS wrote:

eViL wrote:regarding going all in on a blockbuster trade for a superstar. it just reminds me of the einstein quote: "the definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results." here i am, excited that the Knicks are trying something new. they reloaded on young assets. they signed a superstar in his prime. they still have flexibility. this is new; this is different. sure, it might not work, but can we at least try something different and give it a chance to work before immediately locking ourselves into a plan that leaves us no escape?

we are still playing the waiting game for a bigname FA to come save our franchise... the moves this summer are a clear indication of it... we didn't commit to longterm contracts for players because the FO is determined to keep enough cap flexibility to target Melo & CP3 in the next 2 years... if you don't give up the young players now, you're sure to give them up if those guys ever make it known they wish to sign here... this Knicks team is not going to build on a core of Ray Felton, AR, Gallo & Amare... they are going to target another superstar to bring in when they can... & yes, this is only my strong opinion, but i think the signs have all indicated this is the direction we're headed in.

see, you operate on the assumption that none of our players will break out this season. what if there is a break-out star or two already on our roster? my stance is that we need to see what we have before we rush to dump assets. to me, waiting until december 15th is absolutely necessary. if paul gets traded before then, so be it. he's not the first superstar to be on the block and he won't be the last.