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Chandler vs Azubukie
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blkexec
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7/20/2010  12:10 AM
I'm not giving up on Chandler, but if you can turn him into another solid asset, that improves the team, you do it.

But for the Azubukie haters, just search on any forum, and you find stuff like:

http://www.topix.com/forum/basketball-players/kelenna-azubuike/T64SIKRDICEU7C98V

"kelena is a great asset to the nba. he represents the hard workers coming out of college, then the nbdl. not only is he a talent, he is also one of the few eloquent gentlemen in the league. big ups kelena!"

or

"5 minutes or 25 minutes, that kid gives 100% every time. I hope he stays with GS a long time."

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
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blkexec
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7/20/2010  12:13 AM
And keep in mind, I'm one of the biggest Chandler supporters...Along with David Lee.

But it was smart to S&T Lee....vs loose him for nothing.

And I'm for trading Chandler, if its the right deal. But I think he has above average talent, for a rare 2-way versatile player...

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
TMS
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7/20/2010  12:48 AM
Knixkik wrote:
Bernard30 wrote:I don't get why Wilson doesn't get a bit of a pass for his injuries. The guy has shown flashes of being a VERY good player in all three of his years but unfortunately injuries seemed to derail him every time. Now if he's injury prone, fine, he's screwed. But if they were just injuries, let's give the guy a shot. He can defend. He's 6'8". Still 23 years old. From what I recall D'Antoni has nothing but good things to say. So he can't hit 3's. I say get him to keep slashing. Let him run the floor and finish. Wilson Chandler can most certainly finish. I see him even playing a little 3, with Azubuike at the 2 for some of our smaller, faster line ups with Felton, AR and Amare on the floor. The guys is an athlete, has a smooth looking stroke (when not falling away) and is a hard worker. Let's not give up on Wilson Chandler just yet...

No one will give up on Chandler, i think most just admit the fact that he doesn't have a place on this team, especially with gallo and amare. They are the 3 and 4, amare isn't playing center and gallo isn't playing PF, this is your frontcourt. I also believe this is why Randolph either becomes a center or falls into the same place as Chandler, players who are forwards only, and not SGs or Centers. Chandler is a great young prospect, and is tradable in the right deal.

i think you can find a place for Wilson on this team as a 6th or 7th man off the bench even if we land a stud SG to fill that slot for the longterm, but the problem is Wilson's contract hinders the Knicks' chances of signing a max FA in 2011... w/all the moves they made this summer & the fact they just drafted a kid like Fields who seems to emulate alot of what Wilson does on the floor who is being paid a fraction of what Wilson is slated to make, Wilson is going to be at the center of trade talks dealing w/the Knicks all year... he is the most likely to be shopped & traded at this point.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
smackeddog
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7/20/2010  4:32 AM
TMS wrote:
i think you can find a place for Wilson on this team as a 6th or 7th man off the bench even if we land a stud SG to fill that slot for the longterm, but the problem is Wilson's contract hinders the Knicks' chances of signing a max FA in 2011... w/all the moves they made this summer & the fact they just drafted a kid like Fields who seems to emulate alot of what Wilson does on the floor who is being paid a fraction of what Wilson is slated to make, Wilson is going to be at the center of trade talks dealing w/the Knicks all year... he is the most likely to be shopped & traded at this point.

I agree- I'd rather have a better shooter at SG in the starting line up, and use Chandler is Al Harrington's role from last year, so he'd still get starters minutes, but it would be off the bench.

I like Chandler's game a lot- and I know a lot of people say he lacks the personality to be anything other than a role player, but he reminds me of Allan Houston, who people made exactly the same complaints about, with regards to his his quiet, unexpressive demeanor in his first few years as a Knick. It didn't suprise me when Chandler said he was close to Houston and thanked him for all the help he'd been giving him improve his game- I know he'll never be the same shooter, but there's just something about the way he plays that reminds me of H2O. I also like his work ethic and the fact he showed up to watch the summer league games. And remember, he was starting to come into his own last season before he started getting bogged down with all those injuries.

I'm hoping Azubuike is a good player for us, but when you look at the injury he had, he's the one out of the three we traded for that is most likely to have difficulties returning to form, due to the severity of it, so just bare that in mind when projecting his role with the team.

Like TMS said, the main problem with Chandler is his contract and also where he'll fit long term, even if we don't get Carmelo- would he be happy being a bench player?
TheGame
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7/20/2010  8:22 AM
If Walsh is smart, he will be working right now on a Chandler/Felton for Chris Paul deal. Otherwise, just hold on to Chandler until the summer unless a really great deal comes along. As we saw this past offseason, you can trade a solid player after the draft. We should have no probably finding a team willing to take Chandler off our hands and if we sign Carmelo, the Nuggets will probably take back Chandler in a S&T. So there is no urgency to trade him.
Trust the Process
Vmart
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7/20/2010  9:27 AM
TMS wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Bernard30 wrote:I don't get why Wilson doesn't get a bit of a pass for his injuries. The guy has shown flashes of being a VERY good player in all three of his years but unfortunately injuries seemed to derail him every time. Now if he's injury prone, fine, he's screwed. But if they were just injuries, let's give the guy a shot. He can defend. He's 6'8". Still 23 years old. From what I recall D'Antoni has nothing but good things to say. So he can't hit 3's. I say get him to keep slashing. Let him run the floor and finish. Wilson Chandler can most certainly finish. I see him even playing a little 3, with Azubuike at the 2 for some of our smaller, faster line ups with Felton, AR and Amare on the floor. The guys is an athlete, has a smooth looking stroke (when not falling away) and is a hard worker. Let's not give up on Wilson Chandler just yet...

No one will give up on Chandler, i think most just admit the fact that he doesn't have a place on this team, especially with gallo and amare. They are the 3 and 4, amare isn't playing center and gallo isn't playing PF, this is your frontcourt. I also believe this is why Randolph either becomes a center or falls into the same place as Chandler, players who are forwards only, and not SGs or Centers. Chandler is a great young prospect, and is tradable in the right deal.

i think you can find a place for Wilson on this team as a 6th or 7th man off the bench even if we land a stud SG to fill that slot for the longterm, but the problem is Wilson's contract hinders the Knicks' chances of signing a max FA in 2011... w/all the moves they made this summer & the fact they just drafted a kid like Fields who seems to emulate alot of what Wilson does on the floor who is being paid a fraction of what Wilson is slated to make, Wilson is going to be at the center of trade talks dealing w/the Knicks all year... he is the most likely to be shopped & traded at this point.

What stud sg is available? Rudy Fernandez if that is your idea of stud then Wilson is better.
fishmike
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7/20/2010  10:07 AM
EwingsGlass wrote:
Knickss208 wrote:Yea, but Carmelo isnt necessarily coming to the knicks next year. He is a talent we have groomed. I think Chandler can be a real star and will really show it this year. I know he isnt as much as a main option with Amare and Felton around, but I think he is the key to our success and for our future.

How come the "you are what you are after 3 years" rule doesn't apply to Chandler? I like Chandler, but I cannot see him taking any more dramatic steps further in his development. Maybe he will prove me wrong (I hope so), but since he is a restricted free agent after this season (and his cap hold will eliminate any chance of us signing a max fa in the 2011 offseason), I would look to move Chandler for any assets we can get.


with Chandler its a slight improvement + consistancy and you have a pretty solid piece. I think while he can play both forward spots he really showed you something at SG last year. 40 games he put up 17/6 and shot 50% and played excellent defense. He's a really good scorer in the post and having a 6'7 230 SG with his athleticism is a real advantage. He doesnt have 3 point range (yet) but his mid range game is very solid and he's a great slasher.

He's got some holes in his game. Below average passer and handle. Those are his glaring faults with being a wing.

BUT

Shooting 3's isnt the most important part of playing SG. His jumper is very good from 15-18 feet as I mentioned he shot 50% in 40 games as SG last year.

The guy was REALLY good playing SG 2nd half of the year. Why not focus on the things he brings and does well and how that fits into this team?

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Vmart
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7/20/2010  10:35 AM
The fact that he isn't a extrovert plays heavily into some of the folks thinking around here. I can't believe they think there is a better sg available as of this moment than Chandler. Here you have an athletic sg who has some faults but faults that can be corrected. He fits the system can get out on the floor and finish, can slash to the basket shoots a high percentage and here folks are trying to ship him out because they think they can get better for him. As of now there is nothing better than Wilson available.

It would be in the KNicks best interest to let Chandler play and develop him and increase his value to its fullest. At best we will have created and great sg for ourselves to keep and I would have no problem giving him a contract next year.
Moonangie
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7/20/2010  11:23 AM
EnySpree wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:Hopefully we can get Mayo or another shooter who can play either guard position. Problem is Randolph and Gallo will need to be paid in summer 2012.

Wilson gets paid next off season....so does Buike for that matter

Which is why both will probably be trade assets this year.
Cosmic
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7/20/2010  11:52 AM
Chandler will end up traded this year. Top asset, player who is peaking in skill, player who doesn't make others play better, slow decision making costly, will be making money we shouldn't be paying him given what we really need to spend our money on: Star players and not dime a dozen sentimental favorites. Chandler will pack his bags this year. Might not even make it out on the regular season court.

Whether or not Azubuke can slide right into his place? Hard to say with this guy and his injuries. Promising skill. Didn't he have issues in GS at least early on?

Landry Fields? Well, let's see if his medium speed trots through SL paint for layups trick can be done in the real NBA. I'm thinking they might not. Yet I do like Fields. Just want to see it against better players. I have a feeling the game will be a bit faster than he can handle and his layups won't be there.

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Knickss208
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7/20/2010  12:00 PM
blkexec wrote:I'm not giving up on Chandler, but if you can turn him into another solid asset, that improves the team, you do it.

But for the Azubukie haters, just search on any forum, and you find stuff like:

http://www.topix.com/forum/basketball-players/kelenna-azubuike/T64SIKRDICEU7C98V

"kelena is a great asset to the nba. he represents the hard workers coming out of college, then the nbdl. not only is he a talent, he is also one of the few eloquent gentlemen in the league. big ups kelena!"

or

"5 minutes or 25 minutes, that kid gives 100% every time. I hope he stays with GS a long time."

Wow, I could care less about how he got into the league and what a stand up guy he is. Chandler gets it done. He is a very good player who has improved every year, and always played through pain. People forget that so easily considering he never complains. Always showed up and played hard every night. He hasnt reached his peak and is going to continue to grow. You guys need to get over looking for the next super star to beg to come to NYC. Are we really going to treat Melo like the next LeBron and get burned again, while forgetting about the talent we already have on the team??? This is how championship teams are made, a mix of players you draft and super stars you buy. You cant just keep hoping the biggest free agent of the 2011 class is thinking NY and only NY. We all saw how much NY means to players after this year's free agency.
TMS
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7/20/2010  12:17 PM
Vmart wrote:
TMS wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Bernard30 wrote:I don't get why Wilson doesn't get a bit of a pass for his injuries. The guy has shown flashes of being a VERY good player in all three of his years but unfortunately injuries seemed to derail him every time. Now if he's injury prone, fine, he's screwed. But if they were just injuries, let's give the guy a shot. He can defend. He's 6'8". Still 23 years old. From what I recall D'Antoni has nothing but good things to say. So he can't hit 3's. I say get him to keep slashing. Let him run the floor and finish. Wilson Chandler can most certainly finish. I see him even playing a little 3, with Azubuike at the 2 for some of our smaller, faster line ups with Felton, AR and Amare on the floor. The guys is an athlete, has a smooth looking stroke (when not falling away) and is a hard worker. Let's not give up on Wilson Chandler just yet...

No one will give up on Chandler, i think most just admit the fact that he doesn't have a place on this team, especially with gallo and amare. They are the 3 and 4, amare isn't playing center and gallo isn't playing PF, this is your frontcourt. I also believe this is why Randolph either becomes a center or falls into the same place as Chandler, players who are forwards only, and not SGs or Centers. Chandler is a great young prospect, and is tradable in the right deal.

i think you can find a place for Wilson on this team as a 6th or 7th man off the bench even if we land a stud SG to fill that slot for the longterm, but the problem is Wilson's contract hinders the Knicks' chances of signing a max FA in 2011... w/all the moves they made this summer & the fact they just drafted a kid like Fields who seems to emulate alot of what Wilson does on the floor who is being paid a fraction of what Wilson is slated to make, Wilson is going to be at the center of trade talks dealing w/the Knicks all year... he is the most likely to be shopped & traded at this point.

What stud sg is available? Rudy Fernandez if that is your idea of stud then Wilson is better.

Rudy Fernandez? dude, i'm the one who questions why people are high on players like him on other teams when we have better players like Wilson already on the roster... please get your facts straight... & for the record Wilson is my favorite player on this team... but i'm looking at things from a pragmatic standpoint... all the signs point to Wilson getting traded... i'm realistic enough to realize this.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
smackeddog
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7/20/2010  12:25 PM
Cosmic wrote:
Whether or not Azubuke can slide right into his place? Hard to say with this guy and his injuries. Promising skill. Didn't he have issues in GS at least early on?

From what I can gather, the knocks on Azubuike are that he never ever passes (think Al Harrington)- this may be due to lack of ability rather than him having a selfish mentality, as he's meant to be a great character guy and team mate. The other criticism I read was that he hardly ever actually shoots, which is why his percentages are so high- he usually drives to the rim instead of attempting a jump shot. I know very little about him, and can't remember him playing against the Knicks, so I have no idea whether these critcisms are warranted or not. Then there's also the injury issue and whether he's fully recovered. So he has a lot more question marks than Chandler- it's amazing how quick people are chasing after the new guy and trampling on Chandler!
CrushAlot
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7/20/2010  12:35 PM
smackeddog wrote:
Cosmic wrote:
Whether or not Azubuke can slide right into his place? Hard to say with this guy and his injuries. Promising skill. Didn't he have issues in GS at least early on?

From what I can gather, the knocks on Azubuike are that he never ever passes (think Al Harrington)- this may be due to lack of ability rather than him having a selfish mentality, as he's meant to be a great character guy and team mate. The other criticism I read was that he hardly ever actually shoots, which is why his percentages are so high- he usually drives to the rim instead of attempting a jump shot. I know very little about him, and can't remember him playing against the Knicks, so I have no idea whether these critcisms are warranted or not. Then there's also the injury issue and whether he's fully recovered. So he has a lot more question marks than Chandler- it's amazing how quick people are chasing after the new guy and trampling on Chandler!


I agree about not understanding the rush to get rid of Chandler. Chandler is just 23 and has been an NBA starter for 2 years. He is the most accomplished returning Knick and can play three positions. I don't think he should be the guy the team targets to move. Also, having Landry Fields doesn't make Chandler expendable in my opinion. Fields is almost the same age as Chandler and translatting summer league success to the NBA is not an easy process and often doesn't happen.
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Vmart
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7/20/2010  2:06 PM
TMS, you said you wanted a stud sg. What stud sg is out there that is available. There are only 3 or 4 stud sgs out there in the NBA. Kobe, Wade, Roy the rest are all in Chandlers class and Chandler is getting better so please let me know what stud sg you got in mind that is better than Chandler at this point in time that is truly available to the Knicks. I don't buy that Chandler is on the market he is here to stay only way I see Chandler being moved is for Melo and as of now that is a pipe dream of LeBronesque proportion. CP3 another pipe dream. Now if you can tell me what sg is out there that would be an improvement over Chandler and obtainable let me know.
TMS
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7/20/2010  4:51 PM
Vmart wrote:TMS, you said you wanted a stud sg. What stud sg is out there that is available. There are only 3 or 4 stud sgs out there in the NBA. Kobe, Wade, Roy the rest are all in Chandlers class and Chandler is getting better so please let me know what stud sg you got in mind that is better than Chandler at this point in time that is truly available to the Knicks. I don't buy that Chandler is on the market he is here to stay only way I see Chandler being moved is for Melo and as of now that is a pipe dream of LeBronesque proportion. CP3 another pipe dream. Now if you can tell me what sg is out there that would be an improvement over Chandler and obtainable let me know.

please read the words as they are written:

i think you can find a place for Wilson on this team as a 6th or 7th man off the bench even if we land a stud SG to fill that slot for the longterm, but the problem is Wilson's contract hinders the Knicks' chances of signing a max FA in 2011... w/all the moves they made this summer & the fact they just drafted a kid like Fields who seems to emulate alot of what Wilson does on the floor who is being paid a fraction of what Wilson is slated to make, Wilson is going to be at the center of trade talks dealing w/the Knicks all year... he is the most likely to be shopped & traded at this point.

i don't care if Melo & CP3 are pipedreams or not (& i have gone on record saying they are btw)... it's obvious what the FO's intentions are in building this team... they are looking at getting superstars here, not looking at guys like Wilson Chandler to be the foundation... sorry if that's a hard truth for some of you to accept, but it's a pretty obvious one.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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