Andy Rottens should just be cut.

Jerome Jordan as well but he won't be because we invested in the trade so I understand holding onto him until the last moment.

Our SL team was terrible (I didn't watch today, I will try to catch the re-run tomorrow, and if I can I will upload the game for you guys), and honestly the only guys out of the entire lot that should even be looked at as 14th/15th men are Marcus Landry and Fields. If you have a third space you give Ewing Jr the nod.

The others are terrible....and I concur with everyone who dislikes the drafting we did. Not that we were looking for home runs so late in the draft but jeez...at that point you take the big gambles, such as Lance as has been pointed out.

I don't know what we were thinking.

In fact I've said it before we should have tried to package both 2nd rounders and try to move up even just a handful of slots so we had a shot at better talent.

I dunno...the draft isn't a deal breaker for us but we wasted it anyway.

Doesnt change the jist of the point---Andy Rautins wasnt even a top 5 guard on our SL team.

JohnWallace44 wrote:We know precisely jack about these players due to Doulas' personal one-on-five show. That was some terrible offense and Rautins is the type that needs to be in an organized flow. Remember last year how messed up Chandler was for a while at the beginning of the tear? Same type of situation.

That said, I think they ask him to go to Europe for a year.

Douglas was awful as a PG and that alone should be alarming to the Knicks but that being said other guys did step up and do their thing. Heck Jaycee Carroll was a better player by a mile--how can anyone say otherwise? I don't think D Walsh and other people who run the Knicks are on the same page--I think there is serious disconnect.

CrushAlot wrote:

mikesknicks wrote:Please don't start with the Lane Stephenson stuff. Nobody here wanted him said he was going to be garbage, so don't change now. But this is fans that 80-90% of the time don't know what they are talking about. There was very few people here willing to give him a chance yes I'm one of them and a few other non regular posters here. If I remember correctly none of the regular posters wanted him picked. So stop with the I want L Stephenson post Briggs and other regular poster!

I remember some people being high on Stephenson before the draft. The Knicks fell in love with Hobson and it didn't seem like Stephenson was going to be around when they picked. I thought they totally blew the draft but I have been pleased with Fields. If the Knicks were drafting for talent and upside they take Stephenson. I don't think you can dismiss the character factor with D'Antoni. The guys that the Knicks drafted were 4 year seniors. The guy they wanted, Hobson, is almost 23. The Knicks did not appear to draft for talent and upside. They seemed to be looking for experienced, mature guys that could come in and play a role if needed without a long developmental period. Rautins is 24 and was a reach where the Knicks picked him. Most teams draft in the second round looking for upside and potential as opposed to character locker room guys. I think they messed up that pick and I think the character/maturity requirement the coach has for players was considered when making the picks.

Some folks liked Stephenson, I never wanted him (or Rautins for that matter), and thought he should have stayed in college. He will not be able to play D consistently in the NBA, and at times seemed totally clueless when he did not have the ball. Besides the BB experience he would have gained if he had stayed a year or two more, he probably lost millions of dollars by coming out early. Perhaps he could not deal with schoolwork, but someone should have given him (and Orton) better advice about leaving college, because his decision cost him money.

Could the hunt for Princess James have influenced our choice? We take two 4 year college players who are mature, team oriented complimentary types with good BB IQs: Rautins- supposedly the best sniper coming out of the draft, and Fields, an athletic slasher who can finish and do the little things to contribute to a team's success without cramping a superstar's style. Almost all of the guys we targeted- Vasquez, Hobson, Armon Johnson, and even Brackins, were mature well rounded players, who could probably contribute minutes right away- meaning James would not have to wait 3 years for them to get on the floor and help him win with the Knicks.

I just don't think we can overlook how important the FA period was in determining what we were going to do in the draft. We know that Donnie did not want to trade down into the 1st Rnd because it might compromise our cap room, maybe the kind of player we drafted was done with free agency in mind, too.

nixluva wrote:It wouldn't matter if they weren't targeting James, DW wasn't going to go after a bunch of risky players after all the waiting to build a good team. It's not just about raw talent, it's called TEAM BUILDING. DW isn't going to pick guys that you would usually expect other GM's to pick. He's always been conservative and sometimes that's come back to bite him on the butt. Don't try to blame this in MDA as if he was holding Donnie back from being real bold with his picks. Let's be honest this is just who DW and MDA are. What's different about these picks from any of the other ones they've made?

As for the character guys argument, you guys will be LOVING the fact that we have a well disciplined and professional team when you finally see the team gel and playing well without all the drama and non basketball crap. I see nothing wrong with a GM and Coach wanting to keep the team free of guys with issues and behavioral problems. DW and especially MDA wants it to be about WINNING and he knows that when he has a roster full of guys he doesn't have to baby sit, he will get the job done. Like LB wanting to clean house here and bring in his kind of guys, it isn't anything sinister or unseemly for a coach to want that. They do it cuz they know what they need to win.

Now none of this means Rautins will be a good NBA player. I'm just pointing out that it's a winning mentality and we need to get used to it. This isn't fantasy league.

Unfortunately the draft comes before the FA period (perhaps it should be changed), and drafting an NBA ready player with a smaller upside rather than a project who might be a gem 3/4 years down the road but will sit or be in the DL for 1+ years, might make a difference if you are looking to win immediately. By the way, if Hill had been that type of player- and early on after we drafted him you heard he was a "project,"- maybe we would not have traded him off.

We did a great job with Fields, who looks like a mid to late 20s pick at this point, surely as promising as Damion James, IMO, and I think he can actually make a number of not impossible improvements to his game and become a solid rotational guy, and maybe even a starter at some point down the line.

But Fields has athletic ability and smarts, even though his shot is inconsistent, and after viewing the clips that were available of him and reading everything I could find about him, I was pretty sure that he was going to be a decent player. I was definitely not disappointed by him the past week or so.

The only think I really expected from Rautins was a dead on J. I did not think that he would be an exceptional PG, because he rarely, if at all, took it to the basket while at Syracuse. I do think his shot will improve and reach the level we expect it to be at, but for a guy who was allegedly worked out exclusively as a PG by the Knicks, I don't think he has the ability to play the position against frontline NBA PGs, and he is too small/weak to play SG for any significant period of time in a game.

There were probably better players - with character, by the way: Lin, Torrance if healthy, or even Uzoh, who we had in and was already signed by the Nyets.

Just can't figure out where they thought Rautins would play- seems to slow offensively for the point, and too small for a SG who can't even create his own shot. That's what makes me think he was taken with James in mind- because with him on the team you would not need a traditional PG.

Hope he works out for us- I'm just in the camp now that wonders what we were really thinking of when we took him, and perhaps there were other alternatives for us with that 38th pick of ours.

tj23 wrote:Douglas was garbage last year in SL(well, offensively)

No Douglas couldnt shoot--Rautins at 24 years old is garbage in terms of NBA ability--he has none unless the other team wants to leave a spot for him on the floor wide open. He was almost embarrassing for how high he was drafted--scared to shoot 50% of the time as well. Talk about no upside and limited skills--what were they thinking? Number 1 sniper--what in Iraq?

Dude can shoot, pass and get steals. I'd put him in Europe for a year. If he can play point then he's got the size to make it in the nba. If he's just a shooter with good court vision, then he's not going to be anything of real value.

Walsh is a god awful draft guy. He still pins his rep on Reggie Miller and Rick Smits. When you watch the Summer League and guys like Derozan, McGee and Ebanks and Character are dominating... Its a real slap in the face as to how poor the last three drafts have been.

Paladin55 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:he certainly did nothing to earn his way in there--I would have to think there are 50 better candidates. A lot of guys can hit an open three with no one in their face at your local YMCA and he could not prove he could shoot under any duress--nor do anything else. Nothing there.

You, and everyone on UK, know he will be brought to camp, however disappointing he was.

As we all know, his value as a player on the Knicks will ultimately be determined by his value as a sniper.

We kind of went through this with Douglas last year- folks got all upset because he did not shoot well in SL and was really tight on his jumpers. What we saw with Rautins is probably an anomaly for him but only time will tell. He looked tight on his shot, and may have been pressing.

He will be starting out in the DL anyway, probably along with Jordan, so he will have a lot of time to work on his game.

He was not on the list of players I wanted the Knicks to draft, so I was never in love with him from the beginning. Just have to see how he works out. I do expect that if there is a better player out there who we can after the SL is over, we do it, and have him into camp, even if he plays the same position as Rautins.

Exactly. The kid showed he could shoot in college. You have to give him a chance to work his way through it. Now if you don't see any improvement by the end of the year, then you can think about cutting him.

TheGame wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:he certainly did nothing to earn his way in there--I would have to think there are 50 better candidates. A lot of guys can hit an open three with no one in their face at your local YMCA and he could not prove he could shoot under any duress--nor do anything else. Nothing there.

You, and everyone on UK, know he will be brought to camp, however disappointing he was.

As we all know, his value as a player on the Knicks will ultimately be determined by his value as a sniper.

We kind of went through this with Douglas last year- folks got all upset because he did not shoot well in SL and was really tight on his jumpers. What we saw with Rautins is probably an anomaly for him but only time will tell. He looked tight on his shot, and may have been pressing.

He will be starting out in the DL anyway, probably along with Jordan, so he will have a lot of time to work on his game.

He was not on the list of players I wanted the Knicks to draft, so I was never in love with him from the beginning. Just have to see how he works out. I do expect that if there is a better player out there who we can after the SL is over, we do it, and have him into camp, even if he plays the same position as Rautins.

Exactly. The kid showed he could shoot in college. You have to give him a chance to work his way through it. Now if you don't see any improvement by the end of the year, then you can think about cutting him.