Bonn1997 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:I think a lot of the "Top 3" talk is based upon Hollinger's Player Efficiency Rating... the same rating that has Kobe as 15. I think one of the deficiencies of the player efficiency rating is that it seems to overrate good players on bad teams. i.e. the player that has no other high end players on his team will have an exceptional PER whereas the best player (Kobe) on a team with multiple highend players is rated worse than other players (like Pau).

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fhollinger%2fstatistics

Based on this, I would expect James, Wade and Bosh's PER's (1, 2 and 4 respectively) to drop significantly next season. I would expect Amare's to increase. I would expect Kevin Durant to have the best PER in the entire league.

Kobe at 15th based on stats sounds about right. His #s dropped off a bit--maybe because of multiple injuries. What other players do you think have misleading PERs?

I think that PER is itself misleading. Perhaps Kobe is less efficient than Pau. Guys like Paul Pierce and Carmelo are understated because they aren't primary ball handlers (even though they have high usage rates). Does anyone really think Kevin Garnett, even in his old age, is a worse (or even less efficient) player than Carlos Boozer or David Lee? Without having the offense initiate through Lee, Lebron, Bosh, this year, the PER for each player should drop. I guess all I was saying is that if best stats is the determination of best player, than PER is probably right. But I don't think Bosh is among the best players.

EwingsGlass wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:I think a lot of the "Top 3" talk is based upon Hollinger's Player Efficiency Rating... the same rating that has Kobe as 15. I think one of the deficiencies of the player efficiency rating is that it seems to overrate good players on bad teams. i.e. the player that has no other high end players on his team will have an exceptional PER whereas the best player (Kobe) on a team with multiple highend players is rated worse than other players (like Pau).

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fhollinger%2fstatistics

Based on this, I would expect James, Wade and Bosh's PER's (1, 2 and 4 respectively) to drop significantly next season. I would expect Amare's to increase. I would expect Kevin Durant to have the best PER in the entire league.

Kobe at 15th based on stats sounds about right. His #s dropped off a bit--maybe because of multiple injuries. What other players do you think have misleading PERs?

I think that PER is itself misleading. Perhaps Kobe is less efficient than Pau. Guys like Paul Pierce and Carmelo are understated because they aren't primary ball handlers (even though they have high usage rates). Does anyone really think Kevin Garnett, even in his old age, is a worse (or even less efficient) player than Carlos Boozer or David Lee? Without having the offense initiate through Lee, Lebron, Bosh, this year, the PER for each player should drop. I guess all I was saying is that if best stats is the determination of best player, than PER is probably right. But I don't think Bosh is among the best players.

Pharzeone wrote:No disrespect for Gasol but before he put on a Laker uniform he was considered an underachiever in Memphis. IMO, you put Bosh on that Laker team and they would have won 3 in a row and it wouldn't have been that difficult to tell you the truth.

how can you label Gasol an underachiever and not Bosh? I think Gasol did more with his teams than Bosh ever did.

Bonn1997 wrote:I don't think Gasol ever took the Grizzlies to the playoffs or had above .500 seasons but I haven't checked. Bosh did both in Toronto.

perhaps you should check before you post?

Pharzeone wrote:

martin wrote:

Pharzeone wrote:No disrespect for Gasol but before he put on a Laker uniform he was considered an underachiever in Memphis. IMO, you put Bosh on that Laker team and they would have won 3 in a row and it wouldn't have been that difficult to tell you the truth.

how can you label Gasol an underachiever and not Bosh? I think Gasol did more with his teams than Bosh ever did.

I just going based on the fact that I think Bosh accomplished more by making two straight playoff appearances with little help. Under West, he surrounded Gasol with some players like Miller and he was swept three times. Not to win one playoff game is a feat in my opinion.

in Bosh's career in TOR he had the team in the playoffs twice to Gasol's 3 times. Bosh's team was 41-41 one year and 47-35 in the 2 years they were .500 or better, Gasol's team did it 3 times in a tougher conference. I gotta guess that Bosh's team would only make it to the playoffs once at best out West.

Are you really listing Mike Miller as Gasol's help? Against someone like a #1 pick in Bargnani?

To me both of those guys are side-kick all-stars and Gasol has some more over the long haul, including a World Championship just a little while ago.

nychamp wrote:Bosh < Pau Gasol

Somebody on espn radio yesterday was talking about Miami having 3 of the top ten players in the league. I'll give you lbj and wade being top 3 in the league. But for me Bosh is more of a top 25 type player in the NBA, behind many players such as durant, gasol, dirk, d rose, paul pierce and others.

LOL, come on now................ stuff like this is just shameful. You know damn well Bosh would be top 5 in your ranking if he was a knick. Gasol before the Lakers won 49 games once and never played a playoff game, Bosh is twice as good as Gasol.

Bosh might not be top Ten to some, be he is definitely in the convo.

TMS wrote:people are minimalizing Chris Bosh's game cuz we didn't sign him... if we signed him they'd be praising DW for nabbing 1 of the top bigmen in the league.

Not me. I never really wanted him from the start. I thought he was overrated for a couple of years now, and have come to realize that his defense is just as bad as David Lees, which I have been pointing out. Even before free agency.

nyvector16 wrote:I think Stoudemire will be more dangerous, especially next to Randolph.
Bosh is a great player, but he is soft just like James. The only person on that team with the killer mentality is Wade.

That's not to say I think the Knicks are the better team.... obviously that would be a ridiculous claim

It will be interesting to see how our teams match up. We are more balanced... They have the superstars.

I remember people called Gasol soft as well, prior to him winning a ring with Kobe.