KnicksSince88 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

KnicksSince88 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

KnicksSince88 wrote:If we get Amare, we're gonna need a defensive presence with him at the 4 or 5 to make it work. Amare+Lee or Amare+Jefferson would be a disaster on the interior defensively. And if you're frontcourt can't protect the rim defensively, its impossible to be a good defensive team, and teams who aren't good defensively have a definite ceiling on their success level

Name me a team who has won a title with a 4/5 as weak defensively as Amare+Lee or Amare+Jefferson

not really. Amare guards the post just fine. Its help he stinks at. Even Lee can put his body on a guy and clean the glass, the problem with defense was the opposing guards lived in the paint and made it too easy for other bigs to score in motion.

We were desperatly need to improve our D is to keep opposing wings out of the paint and the lane.

This is why I have been very pro Mike Miller, and even open to Joe Johnson. I think if you get a legit ball handler it takes pressure of Douglas running the offense and he's a great defender of opposing PGs.

I think getting douglas on the floor for defense (his shooting/scoring were solid too) is the easiest way to improve our overall defense.

Part of the reason teams live in the paint is because they had no deterrent to attack the rim at will. If our frontline was Amare+Lee, they still wouldn't. We need a presence on the interior defensively badly.

15 years ago I agree 100%. The rules and the game have changed. We need speed and length on the perimeter. MVP for the Celtics was Rondo, his defense impacted the playoffs more than anything. He totally phucked up Jameer Nelson. You can win with Amare and Lee because they both score at 55% and the both rebound. Amare also blocks some shots (he averaged over 2 at least one season).

Also your enforcer types are easier get. That can be a bench guy... you start with the skills guys first and build around.

But you MUST MUST MUST have defense on the perimeter. Thats why Gallo's development was so key. Watching him go after guys like Carmelo Anthony. Sure, Anthony torched him but Gallo took it like he needed to work hard and get better. He WANTS that challenge. Chandler, Gallo and Douglas are a start, and Douglas is the key IMO, but we need another playmaker ball handler out there. Douglas isnt ready to start without help IMO.

Obviously LBJ is the key

Heres the thing though. David Lee is a beyond brutal defensive player. And should he play with Amare, its not as simple as thinking that both playing together they are going to get their normal offensive+rebounding numbers, and both be roughly 20-10 guys together. It just doesn't work that way. Look at how David Lee was performing when we had Zack here, and then how he emerged once we shipped him out. Bringing in Amare diminishes Lee's value offensively, but still keeps his defensive warts in place

I absolutely think Lee+Amare would be a good combo because of their games. Its not like Curry and Zach when Curry can only exist in one spot.

Both Lee and Amare can spot up, both can post down low, but can work in the high post. Amare has a great face up game. Lee is a better facilitator. Both are great in motion. Both have experience playing C and PF.

When I had this debate last time I posted a whole bunch of PF/C combos in recent history who put up great #s together... to the tune of 40ppg and 20rpg.

Lee and Amare are both very skilled and versatile. Both can succeed in a number of spots.

I think this is moot though... KNicks are getting LBJ or spending the money on a wing

fishmike wrote:

KnicksSince88 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

KnicksSince88 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

KnicksSince88 wrote:If we get Amare, we're gonna need a defensive presence with him at the 4 or 5 to make it work. Amare+Lee or Amare+Jefferson would be a disaster on the interior defensively. And if you're frontcourt can't protect the rim defensively, its impossible to be a good defensive team, and teams who aren't good defensively have a definite ceiling on their success level

Name me a team who has won a title with a 4/5 as weak defensively as Amare+Lee or Amare+Jefferson

not really. Amare guards the post just fine. Its help he stinks at. Even Lee can put his body on a guy and clean the glass, the problem with defense was the opposing guards lived in the paint and made it too easy for other bigs to score in motion.

We were desperatly need to improve our D is to keep opposing wings out of the paint and the lane.

This is why I have been very pro Mike Miller, and even open to Joe Johnson. I think if you get a legit ball handler it takes pressure of Douglas running the offense and he's a great defender of opposing PGs.

I think getting douglas on the floor for defense (his shooting/scoring were solid too) is the easiest way to improve our overall defense.

Part of the reason teams live in the paint is because they had no deterrent to attack the rim at will. If our frontline was Amare+Lee, they still wouldn't. We need a presence on the interior defensively badly.

15 years ago I agree 100%. The rules and the game have changed. We need speed and length on the perimeter. MVP for the Celtics was Rondo, his defense impacted the playoffs more than anything. He totally phucked up Jameer Nelson. You can win with Amare and Lee because they both score at 55% and the both rebound. Amare also blocks some shots (he averaged over 2 at least one season).

Also your enforcer types are easier get. That can be a bench guy... you start with the skills guys first and build around.

But you MUST MUST MUST have defense on the perimeter. Thats why Gallo's development was so key. Watching him go after guys like Carmelo Anthony. Sure, Anthony torched him but Gallo took it like he needed to work hard and get better. He WANTS that challenge. Chandler, Gallo and Douglas are a start, and Douglas is the key IMO, but we need another playmaker ball handler out there. Douglas isnt ready to start without help IMO.

Obviously LBJ is the key

Heres the thing though. David Lee is a beyond brutal defensive player. And should he play with Amare, its not as simple as thinking that both playing together they are going to get their normal offensive+rebounding numbers, and both be roughly 20-10 guys together. It just doesn't work that way. Look at how David Lee was performing when we had Zack here, and then how he emerged once we shipped him out. Bringing in Amare diminishes Lee's value offensively, but still keeps his defensive warts in place

I went through this with someone.... Lee was still producing when Zach was here. He was also producing when Earl Barron was getting 10 rebounds also.

I absolutely think Lee+Amare would be a good combo because of their games. Its not like Curry and Zach when Curry can only exist in one spot.

Both Lee and Amare can spot up, both can post down low, but can work in the high post. Amare has a great face up game. Lee is a better facilitator. Both are great in motion. Both have experience playing C and PF.

When I had this debate last time I posted a whole bunch of PF/C combos in recent history who put up great #s together... to the tune of 40ppg and 20rpg.

Lee and Amare are both very skilled and versatile. Both can succeed in a number of spots.

I think this is moot though... KNicks are getting LBJ or spending the money on a wing

Forget Barron who has no offensive role whatsoever. When Zack was here D-Lee got swallowed up offensively. When Zach left, Lee basically became a 20 point scorer over night. Dropped 37 in a game a couple days after the trade was made. I just don't see how Lee and Amare are going to play together and BOTH get their normal 20 and 10 or so every night together, its just not a plug in game like that with player stats. Amare is going to be the guy we run things through down low, Lee will get far fewer touches, which basically eats into his value offensively, then you are left with a guy who can't play defense at all, and is getting you 12 and 10. Not to mention we would likely sign a perimeter player who will also take shots away from Lee, and the emergence of Gallo that will surely take shots away from Lee. How is Lee going to be any more than a 3rd or 4th option offensively here? How is he going to score 17-20 a night on this team? His offensive value would be diminished and then you are left with a BRUTAL defensive PF who is getting you 12 points a night on putbacks and limited touches. Hes just not a fit here with Amare

And where are all these PF/C combos who put up 20-10 together? I guarantee you they didnt have an offensive wing player with them, like we dream of doing. Lee isn't going to get you 20 as your 3rd offensive option. This wouldn't be a situation hed be allowed to flourish in offensively, which puts a huge negative on his impact here given he has to to justify his other weaknesses