MS wrote:He didn't understand that Lee was an improving force and would command 13-14 million in free agency. He waited when he could have been signed two years ago and as a result we are losing an all-star for no value. If you don't think the kid is tradable your are mistaken.

I'm sorry. Total BS. The truth here is that the Knicks were saving up all their cap room for this offseason. Any trade that involved Lee would've had us taking back talent which would've eaten away at the cap. There's no way the Knicks really thought they had this good a shot at having $35 million available. You guys who keep complaining would've rather had potential using up the cap room instead of established stars. Ok, I get that, but can you at least wait until the plan plays out before bitching incessantly? We get that this wasn't "your plan" or "your way of building a team". Can we at least see if it works before we criticize every aspect and act like the GM and coach are incompetent, just because it's not the way YOU would have done it?

Solace wrote:...We get that this wasn't "your plan" or "your way of building a team". Can we at least see if it works before we criticize every aspect and act like the GM and coach are incompetent, just because it's not the way YOU would have done it?

I think you hit it on the head here with this statement. In general I think this is why people complain.

playa2 wrote:I think those who complain now would rather do it now, rather than to hear you try and deflect the blunders complaining here come the "I told you so's" posters

This is completely incoherent. I'm trying to understand your point. Maybe you need to add some punctuation?

Perhaps nobody talks about it anymore because its understood and not worth mentioning. Well, too bad, because I'm
going to mention it. FUCK YOU, Isiah Thomas! THANKS AGAIN for screwing our franchise so badly.

Back to your regularly scheduled Walsh debate.

MS wrote:There is no I told you so posters. Missing out on Lebron and Bosh is an end to NY basketball if it happens. Things could be very bad for this team without a lottery selection.

My only point is that the Celtics had an All-Star point guard that help lead them to a championship and went crazy in the playoffs. They locked him up for 11 million. They saved 7 million on a contract and preserved there asset. Teams are ****ing locking in Frye, Gooden and Johnson. This has nothing to do with my plan. It's doing your job.

The Spurs, Heat, Thunder, Nets, Bucks, etc all had a whole at power forward. So if we lose Lee for nothing which we are Walsh was just being prudent.

You think the Raptors are happy they hung onto Bosh??? There GM looks stupid for overpaying Hedo and hanging onto Bosh they are now in no mans land if they can't pull a sign and trade.

You either go all in and trade Lee or you don't. We were just good enough not to get the players we wanted in last years draft. Again Walsh acted very quickly on everything he did including giving Duhon 12 million.

Hi, MS. You still are ignoring one simple point. Maybe Lee simply wasn't in the plans at all. Getting under the cap and having as much cap room as possible was the main goal. Lee was simply a nice to have. If we lock up Lee, our pitch is that LeBron can play with David Lee. Maybe that's not the best pitch. Until you acknowledge this, you're just ranting nonsense, because you're talking about an entirely different strategy than the one the Knicks had.

If we strike out this offseason, lose Lee and get nothing in return for him, of course it's bad. But, right now, it's considered an acceptable risk. All I've said is let's see what happens before we play doomsday scenarios. Is losing David Lee worth a shot at LeBron? I think it is worth the risk.

I don't give a **** if Lee isn't in the plans. You have an asset you can trade at that price tag who isn't going to take him. Nearly every team in the league would line up for that contract for a double double machine. That's the point you could have made a better deal. Lee/Hill/Curry in a sign and trade for Bosh is a great package for the Raptors because they get two young bigs and don't come up empty for Bosh. The same would go fore the Suns if we wanted to bring in Amare that's a great package for the team and a player that fits in their system.

Assets get assets.

MS wrote:Pierce and Allen expired at the end of the season they were in a position to get new contracts. Rondo would have got a max deal had he not signed an extension in season. The economy and ownership were big question marks, so if you went to Lee like the Celtics went to Rondo and offered him season for 8-9 million long term we would have gotten him locked in at great value. Like the Celtics did with Rondo.

I don't give a **** if Lee isn't in the plans. You have an asset you can trade at that price tag who isn't going to take him. Nearly every team in the league would line up for that contract for a double double machine. That's the point you could have made a better deal. Lee/Hill/Curry in a sign and trade for Bosh is a great package for the Raptors because they get two young bigs and don't come up empty for Bosh. The same would go fore the Suns if we wanted to bring in Amare that's a great package for the team and a player that fits in their system.

Assets get assets.

If you think Lee would have accepted 8-9 M you may be mistaken. Rondo had a very solid incentive to accept lower pay and that was a shot at more championship runs with the Celts. Lee had no motivation to accept 8-9M per.

MS wrote:He is an asset. The Knicks haven't acquired in asset in 10 years. Curry, Zach, Francis, Marbury, Taylor these were all bad guys by league standards. Lee is an All American kid that plays hard. I'm saying you could have used Lee to clear jefferies in a deal. Teams would line up to take him. There is league wide interest in the kid.

I just don't know why walsh didn't move him a year and half ago for something if the plan wasn't to retain him. I think at 9 million it's something he would have considered. He would have signed the offer sheet with the Blazers. Remember everyone last year was all about Milsap saying he was as good if not better than Lee. Which has been a common theme of people dumping on the kid for no reason.

This kid is going to shine on a good team and we are going to look very foolish if we don't sign Lebron.

MS wrote:It's not fodder

Bigs this offseason (economy has rebounded take that into account)

Camby $10MM
Amir Johnson $7MM (You're telling me the Raptors wouldn't have taken Lee at 10MM with Curry and Hill)
Gooden $6MM

Suns
Frye $5MM
Warrick $4MM

Deals are out there and teams are willing to take salary. Lee fits in great in two cities that are spending and he is twice the player

Its fodder because those team's situations have no similarity to ours.

We are trying to sign two max stars.

Lee still exists as a fall back until he signs somewhere else.

Also your ASSUMING Lee would have accepted a smaller contract but have no reason or data to back that up. In fact the data you put out suggests that Lee would have asked for a bigger contract or just waited.

Lee at $12mm and signed for another 5 years would NOT be an asset for us right now with a new CBA looming and this massive FA class.

Sorry dude

I'm wondering how a top pg who has an nba championship and clearly proving he is the best player on the team signs a contract at 11 million? It had nothing to do with the cap. The interest was much lower for Lee and we could have got him to agree to a deal for security. Pippen, Billups, etc have made similiar mistakes.

We want the max guys and there was still a way to do it. My point is, we needed players in place to make a pitch. Last years draft was strong why not move lee like jamal and zach? If you're getting no value or improving the team what are you actually doing???

We are always just good enough to miss on the guy we want. If you're going all in fine. Just use the assets to their fullest