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Is there a D'Antoni/Leo Rautins connection?
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kam77
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6/26/2010  5:27 PM
Cosmic wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:

He has VERY GOOD court vision, so he can probably run the point for stretches. It's at least nice to have that possibility. Well, we have to see if any trades go down. Hopefully we do get Collison from N.O. Many of us are hoping for that...

Does he?

I have family (via marriage) in Syracuse. In Syracuse sports are huge especially college sports. Doesn't matter who you are - you will go to those games and follow those teams just how we follow the Knicks. They're die hards.

They think Rauntins sucks. They say he can hit the three. Yet that's a college three. They say he sucks. I'm inclined to believe them. Not to mention this guy wasn't even guaranteed to be drafted.

Anyone expecting much out of this guy or our other picks are going to be extremely disappointed.

No need to overrate any of them in any capacity. They would have all been SL walk ons/invitees if it weren't for the Knicks.

I think Fields could be a Matt Barnes type. Don't you?
And Jordan and Washington will likely make the roster because we need their size

lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
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Markji
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6/26/2010  5:55 PM
kam77 wrote:
Cosmic wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:

He has VERY GOOD court vision, so he can probably run the point for stretches. It's at least nice to have that possibility. Well, we have to see if any trades go down. Hopefully we do get Collison from N.O. Many of us are hoping for that...

Does he?

I have family (via marriage) in Syracuse. In Syracuse sports are huge especially college sports. Doesn't matter who you are - you will go to those games and follow those teams just how we follow the Knicks. They're die hards.

They think Rauntins sucks. They say he can hit the three. Yet that's a college three. They say he sucks. I'm inclined to believe them. Not to mention this guy wasn't even guaranteed to be drafted.

Anyone expecting much out of this guy or our other picks are going to be extremely disappointed.

No need to overrate any of them in any capacity. They would have all been SL walk ons/invitees if it weren't for the Knicks.

I think Fields could be a Matt Barnes type. Don't you?
And Jordan and Washington will likely make the roster because we need their size

Would Jordan replace Earl Barron or do we keep both?
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
Solace
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6/26/2010  6:12 PM
Childs2Dudley wrote:
playa2 wrote:no comment. ok

But you're the king of conspiracies!

C'mon, no Rautins's father once bowled in the same place as Walsh's father and apparently once accidentally stepped on his shoe and said "sorry" as a story?

Give him a day to find a "blog" written by "someone" in the "know".

Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Paladin55
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6/26/2010  6:36 PM
Markji wrote:Would Jordan replace Earl Barron or do we keep both?

Baron is not even ours at this point. Cant't remember where I read it, but I think he may be looking around for some better $$, although we still may land him in the end.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
blkexec
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6/26/2010  6:39 PM
If I was GM, you take the high risk, high reward players in the second round. Thats how you find your GEMs....Not the seniors thats nearing their peek....Summer Leagues are filled with them.

We could've took a chance that Fields or Rautins would go undrafted, and pick for potential.

And worst case, you could've brought a low pick, and got your man, like we did with Jordan.

But no GM is going after these great college seniors....They want the young freshmens with loads of potential. The guys we got, I know at least one of them would've fell out of the draft, if not both.

There were some potential stars on the board...Why pick a role player?...When SL's are full with them?....That shot blocking dude was a perfect Shawn Marion type....surprised MDA didn't see that.

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martin
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6/26/2010  6:52 PM
Paladin55 wrote:
Markji wrote:Would Jordan replace Earl Barron or do we keep both?

Baron is not even ours at this point. Cant't remember where I read it, but I think he may be looking around for some better $$, although we still may land him in the end.

I read somewhere - Newsday perhpas - that this is what might have happened and what might occur:

Knicks like Barron's game. After the second 10 day contract last year, Barron showed enough to latch on to a playoff team (or so his agent said) but chose to stay with the Knicks and get some minutes. He did get minutes and the Knicks liked him and he fit the MDA type of offense. Knicks offered vet minimum to him this off-season but he turned it down. Donnie *may* be keeping a few extra million of salary cap for Barron or maybe it's for something else, who knows.

Like that. How about this: if Knicks do get Bosh and Bron, no reason Knicks dont also go after Barron and keep Jordan. I say that add to that by also trading for OK4 and have a big rotation (C/PF) of OK4, Bosh, Gallo, Jordan, Barron. Not too shabby and decent depth.

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TMS
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6/26/2010  7:09 PM
blkexec wrote:If I was GM, you take the high risk, high reward players in the second round. Thats how you find your GEMs....Not the seniors thats nearing their peek....Summer Leagues are filled with them.

We could've took a chance that Fields or Rautins would go undrafted, and pick for potential.

And worst case, you could've brought a low pick, and got your man, like we did with Jordan.

But no GM is going after these great college seniors....They want the young freshmens with loads of potential. The guys we got, I know at least one of them would've fell out of the draft, if not both.

There were some potential stars on the board...Why pick a role player?...When SL's are full with them?....That shot blocking dude was a perfect Shawn Marion type....surprised MDA didn't see that.

agree with you on drafting for high ceiling in the 2nd round... that's exactly where you can afford to take those types of big risks on.

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CrushAlot
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6/26/2010  10:33 PM
Paladin55 wrote:
Markji wrote:Would Jordan replace Earl Barron or do we keep both?

Baron is not even ours at this point. Cant't remember where I read it, but I think he may be looking around for some better $$, although we still may land him in the end.


I think Barron was offered a contract by Walsh at the end of the season and he turned it down. It may have only been for the league minimum.
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nixluva
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6/27/2010  1:41 AM
I found this article very informative on Andy Rautins. It seems DW n MDA knew a bit more about this kids background than most. He played PG for the Canadian Olympic squad:

"Andy Rautins just shoots threes."  That's probably what you've been hearing about Andy and that's probably what everyone is going to say about him all summer.  Yes, Andy Rautins is very good at shooting basketballs from beyong the three-point line.  One of the best in Syracuse history.  But to say "all he does is shoot threes" is a discredit to how hard Andy worked over the course of his SU career and how well he played his senior season.

When he came to Syracuse, Rautins was an unknown quantity.  Sure he was a good high school player but, let's face it, he was a legacy.  Leo Rautins' kid.  Chances were that he's never see any meaningful time at Syracuse and an NBA career was out of the question.  For two seasons Andy was exactly what everyone thinks he is, a three-point specialist.  That was pretty much all he could do.  That seemed like all he would ever be.

In the summers, Andy started playing for his father on the Canadian Basketball team.  Tragically that time was cut short when he tore his ACL during a game.  An injury that also forced him to miss an entire season at Syracuse.  Oddly enough, that injury might have been the best thing that could have happened to him. 

Rautins returned from his ACL tear in the best shape of his life. He had bulked up.  He was a better athlete.  He was still an assassin from downtown but he was beginning to develop a more refined game.  His defense improved in the zone and he became a sneaky-good passer.  In the summer before his senior year, Andy led the Canadian team in International play...as a point guard.

All of this translated into a humongous jump in Andy's ability in his senior season.  Andy somewhat surprised us with his massively-improved defense at the top of the 2-3 zone.  And he slightly-surprised us with his passing skills, which bordered on best-in-the-nation at times.  But what really shocked us was the fact that Andy Rautins, not Wes Johnson, became the leader of the Syracuse basketball team.  It was Andy who rallies the troops when needed.  It was Andy who got emotional and fired up.  It was Andy that Boeheim looked to in order to control the team and the game. 

Wes Johnson was the star, Andy Rautins was the MVP.

Andy leaves Syracuse as one of the most beloved players in school history.  He doesn't have Carmelo's title or Gerry McNamara's penchant for the dramatic, but we literally watched Andy Rautins grow up from a talented boy with one skill into a complete basketball player. 

How will it all translate in the NBA?  I'm not sure.  Despite his improved skills in various areas, Andy's greatest value does remain his shooting ability, though it would be unwise to discount his ability to move the ball and distribute.  A lot of folks are saying the Knicks were dumb for wasting a high pick on a guy they could have gotten as a free agent but I think that's giving too much credence to the mock draft idiots and not enough credence to the team workouts that Andy performed extremely well in.  The Knicks saw enough of Andy to know that he was going to get drafted, regardless of what HoopsPicksGuy.Blogspot.Org said in his mock draft.  Maybe he was slightly high but if he gives you 10-12 minutes off the bench and a scoring threat from the wing, isn't that what you expect out of a 2nd-round pick?

Some special nuggets you guys might want to know about Andy...

We call him the Fauxhawk.  Obviously he doesn't have one now.  But he used to.  And it was glorious. 

Leo Rautins is his father.  This will be mentioned during every Knicks broadcast from now until the time Andy is no longer on the team.  I apologize on behalf of horrible broadcasters everywhere.

His fashion sense is awesome, obviously.

His brother Mike is an actor living in New York City so there's going to be a little reunion, I'm sure.

Keep him away from Chipotle.  Trust me.

Paladin55
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6/27/2010  3:49 AM
TMS wrote:
blkexec wrote:If I was GM, you take the high risk, high reward players in the second round. Thats how you find your GEMs....Not the seniors thats nearing their peek....Summer Leagues are filled with them.

We could've took a chance that Fields or Rautins would go undrafted, and pick for potential.

And worst case, you could've brought a low pick, and got your man, like we did with Jordan.

But no GM is going after these great college seniors....They want the young freshmens with loads of potential. The guys we got, I know at least one of them would've fell out of the draft, if not both.

There were some potential stars on the board...Why pick a role player?...When SL's are full with them?....That shot blocking dude was a perfect Shawn Marion type....surprised MDA didn't see that.

agree with you on drafting for high ceiling in the 2nd round... that's exactly where you can afford to take those types of big risks on.

Walsh would probably tell you that Rautins and Fields are mature, team oriented guys with high BB IQs who will fit in well with what he and MDA are trying to do with the Knicks, and that Jordan is an NBA-ready center, who can still improve, who can provide an interior presence on O and D.

I think Briggs even saw Jordan do well against Varnado in one setting or another, so we got the better kid, IMO, even though Varnado will probably have his moments on D as an off the ball shot blocker.

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Cosmic
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6/27/2010  7:30 AM
BasketballJones wrote:
Cosmic wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:

He has VERY GOOD court vision, so he can probably run the point for stretches. It's at least nice to have that possibility. Well, we have to see if any trades go down. Hopefully we do get Collison from N.O. Many of us are hoping for that...

Does he?

I have family (via marriage) in Syracuse. In Syracuse sports are huge especially college sports. Doesn't matter who you are - you will go to those games and follow those teams just how we follow the Knicks. They're die hards.

They think Rauntins sucks. They say he can hit the three. Yet that's a college three. They say he sucks. I'm inclined to believe them. Not to mention this guy wasn't even guaranteed to be drafted.

Anyone expecting much out of this guy or our other picks are going to be extremely disappointed.

No need to overrate any of them in any capacity. They would have all been SL walk ons/invitees if it weren't for the Knicks.

Do they think he sucks,or what?

After I read this last night I called them all up on your behalf.

They still echo the same sentiments.

He sucks, can hit the three, but he sucks, and thank god he is off my team.

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Cosmic
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6/27/2010  7:33 AM
Paladin55 wrote:

Walsh would probably tell you that Rautins and Fields are mature, team oriented guys with high BB IQs who will fit in well with what he and MDA are trying to do with the Knicks, and that Jordan is an NBA-ready center, who can still improve, who can provide an interior presence on O and D.

I think Briggs even saw Jordan do well against Varnado in one setting or another, so we got the better kid, IMO, even though Varnado will probably have his moments on D as an off the ball shot blocker.

Walshs' job as team president (not GM, as he isn't) is to give us the PR. It's just his job to do this and he does it well....except when he forgets who "I traded for" (Chris Wilcox) --- which just shows you Walsh doesn't do the trades or picks. He signs off on them but he doesn't do them. His job was to come in and clean up this mess of a front office atmosphere of which was a hoodlum frat party. That was his job. I don't think he does much beyond that. He's more of a consultant when it comes to team moves.

John Gabriel absolutely orchestrated the tear down of our roster. Grunwald (soon to be squeezed out) and the others made the draft picks and trades. Walsh was in an advisory role and merely signed off on things as they came to him.

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Cosmic
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6/27/2010  7:35 AM
nixluva wrote:I found this article very informative on Andy Rautins. It seems DW n MDA knew a bit more about this kids background than most. He played PG for the Canadian Olympic squad:

"Andy Rautins just shoots threes."  That's probably what you've been hearing about Andy and that's probably what everyone is going to say about him all summer.  Yes, Andy Rautins is very good at shooting basketballs from beyong the three-point line.  One of the best in Syracuse history.  But to say "all he does is shoot threes" is a discredit to how hard Andy worked over the course of his SU career and how well he played his senior season.

He doesn't just shoot threes. He apparently also dribbles into traffic, throws the ball out of bounds, falls down while trying to pull off moves his body cannot do, and gets stuffed when he thinks he's a kid on a playground playing against his younger brothers thinking he can just drive to the hoop and score.

He sucks. End of story.

Yet I'm sure when he hits a few threes in SL far too many will blow him up to be "OMG WE FOUND OUR PG OF THE FUTURE 15 YEARS!" type tune.

And, hey, I wasn't expecting anything anyway - except again to maybe package all this crap into a higher 2nd round selection. But, well, whatever.

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Markji
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6/27/2010  7:38 AM
Cosmic wrote:
Paladin55 wrote:

Walsh would probably tell you that Rautins and Fields are mature, team oriented guys with high BB IQs who will fit in well with what he and MDA are trying to do with the Knicks, and that Jordan is an NBA-ready center, who can still improve, who can provide an interior presence on O and D.

I think Briggs even saw Jordan do well against Varnado in one setting or another, so we got the better kid, IMO, even though Varnado will probably have his moments on D as an off the ball shot blocker.

Walshs' job as team president (not GM, as he isn't) is to give us the PR. It's just his job to do this and he does it well....except when he forgets who "I traded for" (Chris Wilcox) --- which just shows you Walsh doesn't do the trades or picks. He signs off on them but he doesn't do them. His job was to come in and clean up this mess of a front office atmosphere of which was a hoodlum frat party. That was his job. I don't think he does much beyond that. He's more of a consultant when it comes to team moves.

John Gabriel absolutely orchestrated the tear down of our roster. Grunwald (soon to be squeezed out) and the others made the draft picks and trades. Walsh was in an advisory role and merely signed off on things as they came to him.

I think you have hit upon something Cosmic. Makes sense. I think Donnie may have been a bit more involved, but not much more.
Who do you think orchestrated that terrible trade with Houston last year at the trade deadline?
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Cosmic
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6/27/2010  7:41 AM
John Gabriel.

Look at his history with Orlando clearing the cap space for their 2 max cats - which became Hill and TMac. They wanted Duncan of course but that didn't happen. Then look how Orlando went through 2000-2003 constantly keeping their cap open for the 2nd shot at Duncan.

John Gabriel.

That is his specialty.


Walsh is more of an experienced advisor willing to take the heat in the media.

Again, of course, this is my opinion/speculation but I feel this is how things are.

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JohnWallace44
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6/27/2010  10:37 AM
Cosmic wrote:
BasketballJones wrote:
Cosmic wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:

He has VERY GOOD court vision, so he can probably run the point for stretches. It's at least nice to have that possibility. Well, we have to see if any trades go down. Hopefully we do get Collison from N.O. Many of us are hoping for that...

Does he?

I have family (via marriage) in Syracuse. In Syracuse sports are huge especially college sports. Doesn't matter who you are - you will go to those games and follow those teams just how we follow the Knicks. They're die hards.

They think Rauntins sucks. They say he can hit the three. Yet that's a college three. They say he sucks. I'm inclined to believe them. Not to mention this guy wasn't even guaranteed to be drafted.

Anyone expecting much out of this guy or our other picks are going to be extremely disappointed.

No need to overrate any of them in any capacity. They would have all been SL walk ons/invitees if it weren't for the Knicks.

Do they think he sucks,or what?

After I read this last night I called them all up on your behalf.

They still echo the same sentiments.

He sucks, can hit the three, but he sucks, and thank god he is off my team.

Dude... you're full of it. Are you trying to pass off some weak post thinking that nobody in New York happened to catch a Syracuse game or ten last season?

There is zero chance that any serious Syracuse fan would ever say that they're glad Rautins is off the team. He's one of the best four-year players that they've had there.

That's like saying that St. John's fans were happy when Felipe Lopez was finally gone.

The only people that are happy to see Rautins leave are living in Connecticut, West Virginia, Washington DC and Philly.

Bad draft pick? Yes. Bad player? No.

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martin
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6/27/2010  12:08 PM
Cosmic wrote:
nixluva wrote:I found this article very informative on Andy Rautins. It seems DW n MDA knew a bit more about this kids background than most. He played PG for the Canadian Olympic squad:

"Andy Rautins just shoots threes."  That's probably what you've been hearing about Andy and that's probably what everyone is going to say about him all summer.  Yes, Andy Rautins is very good at shooting basketballs from beyong the three-point line.  One of the best in Syracuse history.  But to say "all he does is shoot threes" is a discredit to how hard Andy worked over the course of his SU career and how well he played his senior season.

He doesn't just shoot threes. He apparently also dribbles into traffic, throws the ball out of bounds, falls down while trying to pull off moves his body cannot do, and gets stuffed when he thinks he's a kid on a playground playing against his younger brothers thinking he can just drive to the hoop and score.

He sucks. End of story.

Yet I'm sure when he hits a few threes in SL far too many will blow him up to be "OMG WE FOUND OUR PG OF THE FUTURE 15 YEARS!" type tune.

And, hey, I wasn't expecting anything anyway - except again to maybe package all this crap into a higher 2nd round selection. But, well, whatever.

for someone who has never seen him play you have plenty to add...

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Cosmic
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6/28/2010  12:10 PM
JohnWallace44 wrote:
Cosmic wrote:
BasketballJones wrote:
Cosmic wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:

He has VERY GOOD court vision, so he can probably run the point for stretches. It's at least nice to have that possibility. Well, we have to see if any trades go down. Hopefully we do get Collison from N.O. Many of us are hoping for that...

Does he?

I have family (via marriage) in Syracuse. In Syracuse sports are huge especially college sports. Doesn't matter who you are - you will go to those games and follow those teams just how we follow the Knicks. They're die hards.

They think Rauntins sucks. They say he can hit the three. Yet that's a college three. They say he sucks. I'm inclined to believe them. Not to mention this guy wasn't even guaranteed to be drafted.

Anyone expecting much out of this guy or our other picks are going to be extremely disappointed.

No need to overrate any of them in any capacity. They would have all been SL walk ons/invitees if it weren't for the Knicks.

Do they think he sucks,or what?

After I read this last night I called them all up on your behalf.

They still echo the same sentiments.

He sucks, can hit the three, but he sucks, and thank god he is off my team.

Dude... you're full of it. Are you trying to pass off some weak post thinking that nobody in New York happened to catch a Syracuse game or ten last season?

There is zero chance that any serious Syracuse fan would ever say that they're glad Rautins is off the team. He's one of the best four-year players that they've had there.

That's like saying that St. John's fans were happy when Felipe Lopez was finally gone.

The only people that are happy to see Rautins leave are living in Connecticut, West Virginia, Washington DC and Philly.

Bad draft pick? Yes. Bad player? No.

I'm full of it?

Get bent.

I have family in 'cuse and they hate Rautins. They also think he will suck ass in the NBA to the point they were surprised anyone even dared to pick him.

End of story.

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Markji
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6/29/2010  7:36 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/29/2010  7:37 AM
Here's the connection for why we took Rautins.
Makes sense to me. Getting the recommendations from reliable, trusted, college coaches that know the player well. That is how we got Lee and also Toney Douglas (Coach K recommended Douglas)
Boeheim has spent three summers with Knicks coach Mike D'Antoni as an assistant on Team USA.

The entire article

Boeheim: Andy fits nice-Lee
By MARC BERMAN

Syracuse coach Jim Boeheim said he thinks the Knicks have pulled off another mid-draft steal along the lines of David Lee.

Syracuse guard Andy Rautins, selected at No. 38 in Thursday's draft, was picked even later than Lee, who was the last pick of the first round five years ago as a Florida senior. Lee made his first All-Star in February and is ready for a big free-agent payday this summer.

Boeheim said he believes Rautins was a victim of a draft bias against college seniors, overlooked for fear they already have reached their potential.

"He's a lot better player than people think he is," Boeheim told The Post. "I'd like to say he's just a great shooter, which he is, but he can do other things -- pass and defend."

Boeheim said he fielded calls from teams late in the first round and Rautins lasted longer than Boeheim thought he would.

"You look at the first round and there's so many teams drafting young guys on potential," Boeheim said. "They could be good. But then you find out they never get to be good. Andy's ready to play now.

"Guys that work hard get better, like [Michael] Jordan," Boeheim added. "Guys that don't work hard don't get better. Andy works hard and will get better like David Lee did. People missed the boat on Lee. Andy's a workaholic."

Boeheim has spent three summers with Knicks coach Mike D'Antoni as an assistant on Team USA.
"He's a great offensive coach, one of the best I've seen," Boeheim said. "A lot of Mike's offense depends on making perimeter shots, and he can do that. It's a good fit for the Knicks."

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/boeheim_andy_fits_nice_lee_kOTHJVk2ltGwcBjyWkMu7L?CMP=OTC-rss&FEEDNAME=

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
Is there a D'Antoni/Leo Rautins connection?

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