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cavs get t to the izzo...
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sidsanders
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6/9/2010  6:13 PM
Pharzeone wrote:
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:LOL i saw on ESPN a list of the coach's that turn pro...wow...not one had anykind of success, at least as far as the NBA...actually I believe the only one was pitino, the rest were all below avg. It's still amazing that college coaches think they can win in the pro's . Calipari was a disaster in the NBA.

Larry Brown. I think he was a college coach first.

He was an assistant but got his head coaching experience in the ABA.

still, what other college coaches have won there gone to the pros and won...

GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
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loweyecue
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6/9/2010  6:31 PM
IF they get Izzo and Lebron stays its easy to see who will really make the decisions over there.
TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
Pharzeone
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6/9/2010  6:31 PM
sidsanders wrote:
Pharzeone wrote:
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:LOL i saw on ESPN a list of the coach's that turn pro...wow...not one had anykind of success, at least as far as the NBA...actually I believe the only one was pitino, the rest were all below avg. It's still amazing that college coaches think they can win in the pro's . Calipari was a disaster in the NBA.

Larry Brown. I think he was a college coach first.

He was an assistant but got his head coaching experience in the ABA.

still, what other college coaches have won there gone to the pros and won...

Actually a lot. I just gave you two off the top of my head. I think you mean recently in the past 20 years. From what I remember it was normal course to get a proven college guy who normally was a top assistant before he got his college job or top level HS coach.

Another guy that just came to me Bill Fitch made his bones at the college levels before his long run in the pros. I'm sure some of the more ancient guys could give you more of a list.

I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
nyk4ever
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6/9/2010  6:53 PM
sidsanders wrote:
Pharzeone wrote:
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:LOL i saw on ESPN a list of the coach's that turn pro...wow...not one had anykind of success, at least as far as the NBA...actually I believe the only one was pitino, the rest were all below avg. It's still amazing that college coaches think they can win in the pro's . Calipari was a disaster in the NBA.

Larry Brown. I think he was a college coach first.

He was an assistant but got his head coaching experience in the ABA.

still, what other college coaches have won there gone to the pros and won...

alot of the college coaches are put into bad situations. a guy like pitino went to the celtics banking on the team getting tim duncan and when they didn't they were a garbage team. if you ask me, all these college coaches are mostly better X's and O's coaches than NBA guys, but since they are put into rough spots to start, it's hard for them to succeed.

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
sidsanders
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6/9/2010  6:58 PM
Pharzeone wrote:
sidsanders wrote:
Pharzeone wrote:
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:LOL i saw on ESPN a list of the coach's that turn pro...wow...not one had anykind of success, at least as far as the NBA...actually I believe the only one was pitino, the rest were all below avg. It's still amazing that college coaches think they can win in the pro's . Calipari was a disaster in the NBA.

Larry Brown. I think he was a college coach first.

He was an assistant but got his head coaching experience in the ABA.

still, what other college coaches have won there gone to the pros and won...

Actually a lot. I just gave you two off the top of my head. I think you mean recently in the past 20 years. From what I remember it was normal course to get a proven college guy who normally was a top assistant before he got his college job or top level HS coach.

Another guy that just came to me Bill Fitch made his bones at the college levels before his long run in the pros. I'm sure some of the more ancient guys could give you more of a list.

i cant think of many(any) the past 30... rick p might have been in that class had he stuck in ny a bit longer. he seemed like he had things going well.

GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
sidsanders
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6/9/2010  7:13 PM
nyk4ever wrote:
sidsanders wrote:
Pharzeone wrote:
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:LOL i saw on ESPN a list of the coach's that turn pro...wow...not one had anykind of success, at least as far as the NBA...actually I believe the only one was pitino, the rest were all below avg. It's still amazing that college coaches think they can win in the pro's . Calipari was a disaster in the NBA.

Larry Brown. I think he was a college coach first.

He was an assistant but got his head coaching experience in the ABA.

still, what other college coaches have won there gone to the pros and won...

alot of the college coaches are put into bad situations. a guy like pitino went to the celtics banking on the team getting tim duncan and when they didn't they were a garbage team. if you ask me, all these college coaches are mostly better X's and O's coaches than NBA guys, but since they are put into rough spots to start, it's hard for them to succeed.

you could say that for any coach it seems to me. i actually think quite a few college coaches are really bad at x/o. they happen to be really good recruiters (or cheaters). the talent split in college can be large. nba evens the talent out much more then college, though you still have some awful talent for some teams. college talent split is getting a bit better as well, though you still have some div1a teams that have no shot -- running at best a 6-4 center vs teams with a few 6-10+ guys.

example: i dont think roy williams is a great x/o coach. he is an elite recruiter. coach k is the current best coach (combined: recruiting, running the program, x/o) and thats hard to say as i hate duke. also explains why teams want k. my schools coach stinks at recruiting (gary williams) yet is a very good x/o guy and seems to extract a lot from the limited talent he can get. izzo is quite good overall as well though im not sure he will fit in with how nba players are. same would go for gary. guys that like discipline may find the nba incompatible. some coaches that are so used to recruiting advantages may not adjust well either.

GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
nyk4ever
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6/9/2010  7:32 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/9/2010  7:33 PM
sidsanders wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:
sidsanders wrote:
Pharzeone wrote:
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:LOL i saw on ESPN a list of the coach's that turn pro...wow...not one had anykind of success, at least as far as the NBA...actually I believe the only one was pitino, the rest were all below avg. It's still amazing that college coaches think they can win in the pro's . Calipari was a disaster in the NBA.

Larry Brown. I think he was a college coach first.

He was an assistant but got his head coaching experience in the ABA.

still, what other college coaches have won there gone to the pros and won...

alot of the college coaches are put into bad situations. a guy like pitino went to the celtics banking on the team getting tim duncan and when they didn't they were a garbage team. if you ask me, all these college coaches are mostly better X's and O's coaches than NBA guys, but since they are put into rough spots to start, it's hard for them to succeed.

you could say that for any coach it seems to me. i actually think quite a few college coaches are really bad at x/o. they happen to be really good recruiters (or cheaters). the talent split in college can be large. nba evens the talent out much more then college, though you still have some awful talent for some teams. college talent split is getting a bit better as well, though you still have some div1a teams that have no shot -- running at best a 6-4 center vs teams with a few 6-10+ guys.

example: i dont think roy williams is a great x/o coach. he is an elite recruiter. coach k is the current best coach (combined: recruiting, running the program, x/o) and thats hard to say as i hate duke. also explains why teams want k. my schools coach stinks at recruiting (gary williams) yet is a very good x/o guy and seems to extract a lot from the limited talent he can get. izzo is quite good overall as well though im not sure he will fit in with how nba players are. same would go for gary. guys that like discipline may find the nba incompatible. some coaches that are so used to recruiting advantages may not adjust well either.

i actually disagree with that. i think roy williams is a fantastic x/o coach and a lesser recruiter. the best two players he's brought there are ty lawson and ed davis. not star-studded. i'm not trying to say he's a bad recruiter, i'm just disagreeing with your notion

of course your overall point is true, there are some college coaches that are horrible x/o guys and are just good recruiters. a prime example of this is john calipari.

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
sidsanders
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6/9/2010  9:06 PM
nyk4ever wrote:
sidsanders wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:
sidsanders wrote:
Pharzeone wrote:
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:LOL i saw on ESPN a list of the coach's that turn pro...wow...not one had anykind of success, at least as far as the NBA...actually I believe the only one was pitino, the rest were all below avg. It's still amazing that college coaches think they can win in the pro's . Calipari was a disaster in the NBA.

Larry Brown. I think he was a college coach first.

He was an assistant but got his head coaching experience in the ABA.

still, what other college coaches have won there gone to the pros and won...

alot of the college coaches are put into bad situations. a guy like pitino went to the celtics banking on the team getting tim duncan and when they didn't they were a garbage team. if you ask me, all these college coaches are mostly better X's and O's coaches than NBA guys, but since they are put into rough spots to start, it's hard for them to succeed.

you could say that for any coach it seems to me. i actually think quite a few college coaches are really bad at x/o. they happen to be really good recruiters (or cheaters). the talent split in college can be large. nba evens the talent out much more then college, though you still have some awful talent for some teams. college talent split is getting a bit better as well, though you still have some div1a teams that have no shot -- running at best a 6-4 center vs teams with a few 6-10+ guys.

example: i dont think roy williams is a great x/o coach. he is an elite recruiter. coach k is the current best coach (combined: recruiting, running the program, x/o) and thats hard to say as i hate duke. also explains why teams want k. my schools coach stinks at recruiting (gary williams) yet is a very good x/o guy and seems to extract a lot from the limited talent he can get. izzo is quite good overall as well though im not sure he will fit in with how nba players are. same would go for gary. guys that like discipline may find the nba incompatible. some coaches that are so used to recruiting advantages may not adjust well either.

i actually disagree with that. i think roy williams is a fantastic x/o coach and a lesser recruiter. the best two players he's brought there are ty lawson and ed davis. not star-studded. i'm not trying to say he's a bad recruiter, i'm just disagreeing with your notion

of course your overall point is true, there are some college coaches that are horrible x/o guys and are just good recruiters. a prime example of this is john calipari.

i can show you some heel fans even admitting the roy as bad x/o coach!!! unc routinely has elite talent, not just cuz its unc. roy does well getting those top classes in. no way last years team should have ended up as awful as they were. roy doesnt make a lot of adjustments and it cost them this year and has in the past as well.

GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
KnicksSince88
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6/10/2010  1:38 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/10/2010  2:05 PM
A few things

1. LeBron or no LeBron, this is a no brainer of a move for Izzo. He's going to make more money over the next 5 years in Cleveland than he did over his past 15 at Michigan State. LeBron or no LeBron on the team, thats not something that you are going to turn down

2. The whole thing about college coaches and the NBA is so silly. If Tom Izzo has LeBron, he will win a ton of games. If he does not, he will not. The problem with most of these college coaches in the NBA is they get crap jobs. In fact if LeBron does stay in Cleveland, this is the first time i can remember one of these guys getting handed the keys to an actual contending team. This idea that college coaches are just not able to coach in the league is so overrated, especially in a sport where coaching in general may be less important than it is in any of the 4 major sports. It is a players league. You telling me Roy Williams couldn't have matched the success of Mike Brown the past couple years if he had his team?

3. If Izzo fails, (and he will if he does not have LeBron) he will get another big, high paying college job in 5 seconds

Whats the worst that can happen to Izzo? He fails and has to listen to some talking heads talk about how he couldn't cut it in the NBA? Fine. His bank account is still fat. He'll get another college job, and people who actually know basketball will know its as simple as the players. If he has LeBron, hes going to win 60+ and be in contention every year, if he does not, he will not. The same could be said if Red or Phil Jackson were walking into that situation. Does anyone think there is a coach who has ever lived that would win with that team without LeBron? Because theres not. They'd win 30 games, give or take a few, whether the coach was Phil Jackson, Tom Izzo, or me

Markji
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6/10/2010  2:05 PM
Guys, it isn't always the money as the first concern. Izzo will be paid a lot of money. The other reasons to take the Cav's job:
1. the challenge to succeed at the highest level;
2. fame;
3. glory.
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
KnicksSince88
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6/10/2010  2:52 PM
Markji wrote:Guys, it isn't always the money as the first concern. Izzo will be paid a lot of money. The other reasons to take the Cav's job:
1. the challenge to succeed at the highest level;
2. fame;
3. glory.

The money plays a major part in this though. And its definitely concern #1. Theres a reason they had to double his michigan st salary in this offer. He wouldn't be going to the Cavs for a "challenge" at 3 mil per

nyk4ever
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6/10/2010  3:02 PM
just to add, i don't think just because izzo accepts the job that he knows lebron is coming back. i think the 6mm/year is more the reason.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
CrushAlot
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6/11/2010  5:43 PM
nyk4ever wrote:just to add, i don't think just because izzo accepts the job that he knows lebron is coming back. i think the 6mm/year is more the reason.

I don't think he takes the job unless he knows LeBron is coming back.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
loweyecue
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6/15/2010  8:54 PM
REEEJECTED - Guess he found out Lebron isn't staying after all.
TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
arkrud
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6/15/2010  9:14 PM
loweyecue wrote:REEEJECTED - Guess he found out Lebron isn't staying after all.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/37719291/ns/sports-college_basketball/
More on it.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
TheGame
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6/16/2010  8:05 AM
Cavs handled the thing wrong. You cannot ask Izzo to come to the Cavs without the Lebron situation being settled. They probably wanted Izzo as a selling point to Lebron, but if I am Lebron, I would want a proven NBA coach, not a guy jumping to the NBA no matter how successful a college coach he was. Izzo was in a tight spot, because he needs to recruit and did not want to coach the Cavs without Lebron. Since Lebron was not giving any assurances, he made the smart move and stayed where he was at. Now that teams know he can be talked into taking an NBA job, he probably will get more offers next year.
Trust the Process
fishmike
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6/16/2010  8:13 AM
TheGame wrote:Cavs handled the thing wrong. You cannot ask Izzo to come to the Cavs without the Lebron situation being settled. They probably wanted Izzo as a selling point to Lebron, but if I am Lebron, I would want a proven NBA coach, not a guy jumping to the NBA no matter how successful a college coach he was. Izzo was in a tight spot, because he needs to recruit and did not want to coach the Cavs without Lebron. Since Lebron was not giving any assurances, he made the smart move and stayed where he was at. Now that teams know he can be talked into taking an NBA job, he probably will get more offers next year.
just goes to show there is more to life for a lot of these guys (and that included players) than money. Who cares how much you make if your not happy and doing what you want to do and where you want to do it?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Moonangie
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6/16/2010  10:52 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/16/2010  10:54 AM
from New York Times:

Izzo Declines Chance to Coach the Cavaliers
By JONATHAN ABRAMS
Published: June 15, 2010

Michigan State Coach Tom Izzo notified the Cleveland Cavaliers on Tuesday that he would remain with the university, ending a weeklong flirtation with the organization and the possibility of pairing Izzo, one of the N.C.A.A.’s most successful coaches, with LeBron James.

Izzo spent the week visiting the Cavaliers’ facility, and the uncertainty of not knowing if he would coach James was probably a factor in his decision.

“It’s been an agonizing week as I tried to make a decision about a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity,” Izzo said in a statement. “I apologize for the time the process has taken, but sometimes there are opportunities that come about that must be thoroughly examined.”

Izzo has directed Michigan State to six Final Fours and has been the source of past N.B.A. inquiries. He strongly considered the offer from the Cavaliers’ majority owner Dan Gilbert, a Michigan State graduate, for the challenge of trying to break the trend of college coaches who struggled in the N.B.A.

Others said Izzo had grown weary of recruiting and dealing with Amateur Athletic Union circuits.

“Over the past week, Coach Izzo addressed a personal opportunity that he did not seek out,” Michigan State Athletic Director Mark Hollis said in a statement. “He owed it to himself to completely understand, evaluate, reflect and come to a conclusion that will be part of his life forever. And we owed it to him to allow this process to happen. Throughout the process, his heart was always at M.S.U.”

Only the Cavaliers and the Los Angeles Clippers still have coaching vacancies. Izzo did not leave the Cavaliers empty-handed. His statement also included a plea.

“Just as I decided to stay home, I hope a 6-8, 270-pound forward in Cleveland decides to stay home,” Izzo said.

Doesn't necessarily mean anything, but I suspect his decision was based on a gut feeling that Lebron will NOT re-up with the Cavs. Which leaves me even more confident that Lebron will be a Knick in three weeks or less. Booya!

When an NBA team offers to DOUBLE your $3mil salary, and furthermore means that he doesn't have to deal with the hassles of college hoops (i.e., recruiting, rules, etc.)... and he STILL rejects the offer. That speaks volumes.

loweyecue
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6/16/2010  11:07 AM
TheGame wrote:Cavs handled the thing wrong. You cannot ask Izzo to come to the Cavs without the Lebron situation being settled. They probably wanted Izzo as a selling point to Lebron, but if I am Lebron, I would want a proven NBA coach, not a guy jumping to the NBA no matter how successful a college coach he was. Izzo was in a tight spot, because he needs to recruit and did not want to coach the Cavs without Lebron. Since Lebron was not giving any assurances, he made the smart move and stayed where he was at. Now that teams know he can be talked into taking an NBA job, he probably will get more offers next year.

How did they handle it wrong? If you agree that between Lebron and Izzo, the king is the primary target the Cavs did exactly what they were supposed to do. They gave Lebron the option of throwing his lot in wth Izzo, by dangling him as bait.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
sebstar
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6/16/2010  12:09 PM
He caught wind that Lebron is bouncing.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
cavs get t to the izzo...

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