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I think an oil spill thread is waay overdue...
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fishmike
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6/3/2010  8:05 AM
bitty41 wrote:Pres should draft a hard-core Environmental Bill and all these southern Repubs complaining that the Feds aren't doing enough I would tell them it's time to put up or shut up. Use the Bill as the starting point for developing Green Industries and jobs. If they don't want to bill or advocate against it they will only come out looking horribly bad.

Obama was a big proponent of off shore drilling as another means to lighten our dependancy on middle eastern oil. Damned if you do, damned if you dont.
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Pharzeone
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6/3/2010  8:55 AM
As far as I'm concern this is a LA problem that is causing problems for everyone else. Confiscate some of funds they got from BP over the years. Screw these guys. They don't care. I don't care. Not one $ of federal taxpayer money should be used to help with this cleanup.

New Orleans – One week after the Deepwater Horizon oil rig collapsed into the Gulf of Mexico, a letter arrived on President Obama's desk from Sen. Bill Nelson (D) of Florida, demanding an immediate moratorium on offshore oil drilling.

The same day, Florida Gov. Charlie Crist – a man once seen cheering as Sarah Palin said "drill here, drill now" – called for a special state legislative session to ban offshore drilling.

Even on the other side of the continent, the effects of the Gulf oil spill were transformative: Republican Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger withdrew his support for limited drilling off the California coast.

IN PICTURES: Louisiana oil spill

"If I have a choice between the $100 million [for drilling] and what I see in the Gulf of Mexico, I'd rather just figure out how to make up for that $100 million," he said May 3.

Yet in Louisiana, the state where the spill poses the greatest threat to fragile and environmentally vital marshlands, as well as to the entire fishing economy, talk of coming down hard on offshore drilling is virtually nonexistent.

Democratic Sen. Mary Landrieu is steadfastly against a moratorium on Gulf Coast deepwater drilling – as are other members of Louisiana's congressional delegation. Republican Sen. David Vitter has seen fit to chastise Congress for holding hearings on the growing crisis before the deep-sea leak has been plugged.

BP has come in for some harsh words, and in some cases even legal action. But one parish that is suing BP takes pains to explain its purpose: The suit is aimed at BP, not the oil industry, a lawyer says.

That local leaders facing such a disaster feel compelled not to antagonize Big Oil is telling.

It is quintessentially Louisiana.

Louisiana is entwined with offshore oil more closely than any other state. The world's first offshore oil well was drilled in the Gulf, south of Morgan City, in 1947, and the ties binding Louisiana and offshore oil have strengthened since then.

For a relatively poor Deep South state, plentiful stores of oil and natural gas have become a crucial source of wealth.

"An upwardly mobile career path often leads people in Louisiana to the oil and gas industry," says Kirby Goidel, director of Louisiana State University's Public Policy Research Lab in Baton Rouge. "The state lags behind in higher education, and you can go make a good living on the rigs without going to college."

A major source of jobsThe oil industry employs about 58,000 Louisiana residents and has created another 260,000 oil-related jobs, accounting for about 17 percent of all Louisiana jobs. The average annual oil-industry salary is $95,000 – a very good income in Louisiana.

Moreover, in 2008, oil and gas made up 6.5 percent of Louisiana's revenue, more than five times the national average. As a result, Louisiana and offshore drilling have become synonymous.

"One third of the oil produced in this country comes from offshore, and 80 percent of offshore production comes from deep water off Louisiana," says Eric Smith, associate director of Tulane University's Energy Institute.

Indeed, 40 deepwater platforms operate in depths comparable to that of the Deepwater Horizon rig, producing petroleum from more than 400 wells off Louisiana, according to Mr. Smith. "Deepwater is ... the most productive area of oil production and that's where the big companies are working," he says.

This all plays into Louisiana's response to what some scientists suggest is already the biggest oil spill in American history.

To be sure, the state of Louisiana and its parishes are not doing nothing. A state Senate panel on May 18 endorsed a bill that would make it easier for the state to sue BP. And on May 17, the Terrebonne Parish district attorney filed suit against BP, seeking unspecified damages for wildlife killed or injured by the oil leak. The suit is the first filed on behalf of the state over the oil spill and is expected to be followed by similar claims from other coastal parishes.

Statewide, there are signs of growing anxiety and anger as the first heavy oil slicks to make landfall washed into Plaquemines Parish May 19. Images of oil-soaked wetlands coincided with news that the federal government was doubling the area of Gulf waters where fishing is banned due to the spill.

Many families in south Louisiana work in both the fishing and oil and gas industries, and marine scientists say the spill could severely damage the state's $1.8 billion annual fishing industry for years to come.

Fishing, drilling have coexisted"What makes the oil spill such an interesting issue is that, historically, fishing and oil have worked well together here. This is the first time that one industry is threatening the survival of the other," says Mr. Goidel.

Yet so far, the official state response has been marked by restraint. Despite joining a multistate suit against federal health-care reform legislation, Gov. Bobby Jindal said April 30 that Louisiana was not considering a lawsuit against BP. (He has decided, however, to go forward with plans to build sand berms off the coast to try to keep oil from washing into sensitive areas, even though the US Army Corps of Engineers has not yet issued the state a permit to do so.) Prominent Democratic and Republican officeholders say they will hold BP responsible for the spill, but none has yet called for suits against BP or for new industry regulations.

"In the state's economy and politics, there's no question that the oil industry plays a central role across the board," says Goidel.

Private attorney Don Carmouche, one of the legal team handling the Terrebonne Parish suit, is something of a local Erin Brockovich. His firm has previously sued oil companies in Louisiana on behalf of the state, school boards, and other clients who own public land contaminated by oil operations. During the past century, oil companies used open pits to dispose of hazardous wastes including arsenic, lead, and radioactive material that leached into ground water. But he's careful to say that the Terrebonne suit isn't aimed at the oil industry but at BP alone.

"We don't want to be seen as attacking the oil and gas industries, but a major oil company operating in this state ignored the regulatory system, or benefited from regulators that allowed them to get by with it," he says. "In the early days, the oil companies did whatever they wanted to and got away with it, and apparently that was going on now with BP and the [US] Minerals Management Service."

I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Paladin55
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6/3/2010  9:29 AM
Listening to NPR this morning and they had a guy talking about the possibility of using a small nuclear bomb to close off the well. The Russians did it successfully 4/5 times in the 70's. One speaker- a former Navy man- said you should even be able to use conventional explosives to get the job done.

I would be for the second option- don't want some Godzilla type mutation coming out of the Gulf. Screw BP and their oil- they are more concerned with getting what oil they can from the area, even as they are attempting to shut down the flow.

Big Obama fan and I helped on his campaign, but he has been too respectful of BP in terms of actual action taken by the feds, even though has talked tough at times.

Supreme Court rule that corporations are like individuals. If I drill on my property and put a hole in a large city water pipe, or even a non-municipal water source, and it is gushing out of control, they are going to come in and shut it down and fine me- BP has had more than enough time to deal with this. Time to push them out of the way and take drastic steps to solve the problem.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
Allanfan20
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6/3/2010  9:46 AM
fishmike wrote:
bitty41 wrote:Pres should draft a hard-core Environmental Bill and all these southern Repubs complaining that the Feds aren't doing enough I would tell them it's time to put up or shut up. Use the Bill as the starting point for developing Green Industries and jobs. If they don't want to bill or advocate against it they will only come out looking horribly bad.

Obama was a big proponent of off shore drilling as another means to lighten our dependancy on middle eastern oil. Damned if you do, damned if you dont.

Just before the f' up, he was planning on doing it off the East Coast. New Jersey people were complaining big time about it.

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Pharzeone
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6/3/2010  10:18 AM
Paladin55 wrote:Listening to NPR this morning and they had a guy talking about the possibility of using a small nuclear bomb to close off the well. The Russians did it successfully 4/5 times in the 70's. One speaker- a former Navy man- said you should even be able to use conventional explosives to get the job done.

I would be for the second option- don't want some Godzilla type mutation coming out of the Gulf. Screw BP and their oil- they are more concerned with getting what oil they can from the area, even as they are attempting to shut down the flow.

Big Obama fan and I helped on his campaign, but he has been too respectful of BP in terms of actual action taken by the feds, even though has talked tough at times.

Supreme Court rule that corporations are like individuals. If I drill on my property and put a hole in a large city water pipe, or even a non-municipal water source, and it is gushing out of control, they are going to come in and shut it down and fine me- BP has had more than enough time to deal with this. Time to push them out of the way and take drastic steps to solve the problem.

What drastic steps can the federal government take? Yell at them more in the press? Shake his fingers? The Interior department admitted that in the history of the US there was never any such problem to arise. There is no Secretary of engineering. People don't want to hear it but that what a free market society is all about. The experts aren't working for the government. Other than offering emergency funds not much the federal government can help. BP is best equip to deal with their issue. The problem is that they don't know what to do. If the federal government and the Obama administration failed to evacuate citizens then I can understand the blame but to my knowledge this issue doesn't exist. I can't blame them for saying that pretty F' up and asking the so called experts and responsible party to fix the problem. To be honest this is one of those state issues as far as I'm concern since they are the ones who have the deal with BP to drill.

I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Pharzeone
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6/3/2010  10:22 AM
And btw, I don't think I'm comfortable using nuclear weapons to solve any issue. That's like cutting off my arm to try and save my fingers.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
kam77
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6/3/2010  10:28 AM
loweyecue wrote:
Olbrannon wrote:Imagine if you will a world where blue fin tuna and sperm whales are extinct. That nowhere in the gulf are there any fish or shellfish fit to eat and no beaches unsullied. Imagine the Grand Banks covered in oil. It's frightening.

Blue fin tuna will soon be extinct, our lust for sushi will see to that. Japanese whaling has made a mockery out of all efforts at conservation of endangered whale species. All fish we eat will soon be tainted with petroleum residues in addition to the usual mercury. This way we will get new and more exotic varieties of cancer.

Human greed and wasteful overuse combined with a complete lack of respect for wildlife and natural order of things is destroying entire ecosystems all over the world. While we are too lazy, too incarcerated in our daily pursuit of useless wealth soon to be made worthless by more economic disasters, to do anything about it. The Sarah Palins of the world are winning, and winning big.

Or we could just not eat fish. Being vegetarian is looking better and better.

lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
TheGame
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6/3/2010  2:46 PM
fishmike wrote:
bitty41 wrote:Pres should draft a hard-core Environmental Bill and all these southern Repubs complaining that the Feds aren't doing enough I would tell them it's time to put up or shut up. Use the Bill as the starting point for developing Green Industries and jobs. If they don't want to bill or advocate against it they will only come out looking horribly bad.

Obama was a big proponent of off shore drilling as another means to lighten our dependancy on middle eastern oil. Damned if you do, damned if you dont.

He was not a big proponent. He caved to political pressure and said he would allow it, but that was never his primary focus. You will see over the next months that the democrats will push an energy reform bill through Congress.

Trust the Process
Allanfan20
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6/3/2010  4:42 PM
Pharzeone wrote:And btw, I don't think I'm comfortable using nuclear weapons to solve any issue. That's like cutting off my arm to try and save my fingers.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. At the very least, it could open up Pandoras box for other countries and corporations in solving such catastrophies. The after effects would be off the charts as well, and even more lives would be destroyed, not to mention you're asking for a tsunami, or many of them.

There's no way this would happen.

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Olbrannon
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6/3/2010  5:41 PM
Allanfan20 wrote:
Pharzeone wrote:And btw, I don't think I'm comfortable using nuclear weapons to solve any issue. That's like cutting off my arm to try and save my fingers.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. At the very least, it could open up Pandoras box for other countries and corporations in solving such catastrophies. The after effects would be off the charts as well, and even more lives would be destroyed, not to mention you're asking for a tsunami, or many of them.

There's no way this would happen.

It's my belief the Corp of Engineers should be able to seal it with several simultaneous blasts subsurface... different layers. I'm sure the engineering is no mean feat but c'mon...how many engineers in this country? Seems to me for all the efforts most were meant to keep the active well open and recover. And still on that tack we are in June with no end in sight.

The top kill and junk were last choices.

Would seem you could set charges close enough and enough of them at differing depths to close or at least slow the damn thing to something manageable. Odds are that is a vast reserve at these depths the pressure is HUGE. I have my doubts aboput the latest efforts.

Bill Simmons on Tyreke Evans "The prototypical 0-guard: Someone who handles the ball all the time, looks for his own shot, gets to the rim at will and operates best if his teammates spread the floor to watch him."
Paladin55
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6/3/2010  7:07 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/3/2010  7:12 PM
Pharzeone wrote:And btw, I don't think I'm comfortable using nuclear weapons to solve any issue. That's like cutting off my arm to try and save my fingers.

I don't want a nuclear solution either, but the explosion concept is something to consider, though.

A "drastic" action in this kind of situation is simply one in which the feds tell BP to clear out of the area and do whatever they have to do without worrying about BPs "property" or drilling rights.

BP was supposed to have in place a response program that could deal with this kind of situation- they signed documents to that effect in order to be able to drill. I think they are going about things in a way that will allow them to continue taking oil from the location. Seems to be a lack of desperation on their part, IMO. Hell, we should have BP sink one of their tankers over it and direct it on top of the hole. I think they are too concerned about making sure they have a viable oil production site AFTER all this is over, to really deal with the issue as if the "world" depended on their success, which is how they should be thinking at this point.

"Drastic." for me, means by any means necessary, at this point. BP lied about the amount of oil spewing out of the hole- as soon as the government could ascertain this, they should have kicked BPs ass out of there, and dealt with the issue through the hiring of its own contractors who would be paid for by BP, OR let another oil company take control of the situation and pay them by letting them have the lease to the land.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
Paladin55
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6/3/2010  7:11 PM
Allanfan20 wrote:
Pharzeone wrote:And btw, I don't think I'm comfortable using nuclear weapons to solve any issue. That's like cutting off my arm to try and save my fingers.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. At the very least, it could open up Pandoras box for other countries and corporations in solving such catastrophies. The after effects would be off the charts as well, and even more lives would be destroyed, not to mention you're asking for a tsunami, or many of them.

There's no way this would happen.


The explosions would be about 1500 feet BELOW the bottom surface- it would have limited consequences, from what I understood.

I don't want nukes used either, but some kind of conventional explosives could work, also.

Time to think outside of the box.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
Olbrannon
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6/3/2010  9:00 PM
Paladin55 wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:
Pharzeone wrote:And btw, I don't think I'm comfortable using nuclear weapons to solve any issue. That's like cutting off my arm to try and save my fingers.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. At the very least, it could open up Pandoras box for other countries and corporations in solving such catastrophies. The after effects would be off the charts as well, and even more lives would be destroyed, not to mention you're asking for a tsunami, or many of them.

There's no way this would happen.


The explosions would be about 1500 feet BELOW the bottom surface- it would have limited consequences, from what I understood.

I don't want nukes used either, but some kind of conventional explosives could work, also.

Time to think outside of the box.

With nukes they could likely get away without a cap over the hole before they blast it. Conventionals make the job tougher.

Bill Simmons on Tyreke Evans "The prototypical 0-guard: Someone who handles the ball all the time, looks for his own shot, gets to the rim at will and operates best if his teammates spread the floor to watch him."
loweyecue
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6/3/2010  11:58 PM
Olbrannon wrote:
Paladin55 wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:
Pharzeone wrote:And btw, I don't think I'm comfortable using nuclear weapons to solve any issue. That's like cutting off my arm to try and save my fingers.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. At the very least, it could open up Pandoras box for other countries and corporations in solving such catastrophies. The after effects would be off the charts as well, and even more lives would be destroyed, not to mention you're asking for a tsunami, or many of them.

There's no way this would happen.


The explosions would be about 1500 feet BELOW the bottom surface- it would have limited consequences, from what I understood.

I don't want nukes used either, but some kind of conventional explosives could work, also.

Time to think outside of the box.

With nukes they could likely get away without a cap over the hole before they blast it. Conventionals make the job tougher.

Do you have experience in drilling and damage control? Not trying to be sarcastic, just curious.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
Olbrannon
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6/4/2010  9:46 AM
loweyecue wrote:
Olbrannon wrote:
Paladin55 wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:
Pharzeone wrote:And btw, I don't think I'm comfortable using nuclear weapons to solve any issue. That's like cutting off my arm to try and save my fingers.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. At the very least, it could open up Pandoras box for other countries and corporations in solving such catastrophies. The after effects would be off the charts as well, and even more lives would be destroyed, not to mention you're asking for a tsunami, or many of them.

There's no way this would happen.


The explosions would be about 1500 feet BELOW the bottom surface- it would have limited consequences, from what I understood.

I don't want nukes used either, but some kind of conventional explosives could work, also.

Time to think outside of the box.

With nukes they could likely get away without a cap over the hole before they blast it. Conventionals make the job tougher.

Do you have experience in drilling and damage control? Not trying to be sarcastic, just curious.

No I do not. The conclusion is experienced based and some intuitive reasoning based. I'm formerly an engineering student working for ca 25 years in refrigeration.

Bill Simmons on Tyreke Evans "The prototypical 0-guard: Someone who handles the ball all the time, looks for his own shot, gets to the rim at will and operates best if his teammates spread the floor to watch him."
I think an oil spill thread is waay overdue...

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