PresIke wrote:dodger -

respect...but of the probable starters and key bench players for the u.s. team most play in top european leagues.

this is espn soccernet's most recent projected lineup:

G Tim Howard, Everton (England)
D Jonathan Spector, West Ham United (England)
D Oguchi Onyewu, AC Milan (Italy)
D Jay DeMerit, Watford (England)
D Carlos Bocanegra, Stade Rennais (France)
M Stuart Holden, Bolton Wanderers (England)
M Michael Bradley, Borussia Monchengladbach (Germany)
M Maurice Edu, Rangers (Scotland)
M Landon Donovan, Los Angeles Galaxy (U.S.)
F Jozy Altidore, Hull City (England)
F Clint Dempsey, Fulham (England)

only donovan is listed as playing in a lower league (mls), but he shined on loan at everton this season, and is clearly the u.s.'s best player. for those that don't know, jozy is also a property of villareal (spain), loaned out to hull this past year (he did not do very well, to be honest, although hull was also TERRIBLE overall)

i'm not saying the u.s. team is all that great or even that good. the u.s. team does not have a superstar like rooney, c. ronaldo, fabregas, messi, yet it is capable of causing some damage in the tournament. again, no disrespect to your assessment of the u.s. team, but it is no longer full of inexperienced players who have not competed against top talent around the world. young u.s. talent is far more watched by big clubs in europe and elsewhere, as you saw the biggest transfers for american players ever take place over the past few year. however, the u.s. is also not on the level of top nations around the world...but i think top 15-20 is a fair ranking (fifa has the u.s. currently ranked at 14...and yeah, i know their rankings are not usually that good).

this team beat a legit spain squad in the confederations cup semi-final last summer and took a 2-0 lead on brazil in the final, before losing. the current u.s. team is banged up, missing davies (who played very well then) and has some big question marks (as many teams do), especially on defense, but i think the chances of making the round of 16 is a reasonable expectation. it isn't going to be a cakewalk, but the group the u.s. is in this year is much better than the last time around with (eventual champion) italy, czech republic, and ghana.

Hi Ike, I really didnt intend to disrespect the team or you and I of course understand your point of the starting 11 being in some of the best leagues (pretty much for the first time in the history of team USA). I also think you were completely right, that this is the most talented US team.
My point simply was that in the depth of the 23 player cadre the level of experience in BIG leagues is not present PLUS the players that are under contract in Europe do not really play any important role in those foreign teams.
I do like Dempsey and Donovan but in the case of Donovan (without question the best offensive player on the team) he was not able to convince even in a very good situation for him when he was a player on loan in Munich. He was a mature player (something he still missed during his first stint in Germany at Leverkusen when he pretty much was still a boy) and had a coach in Jürgen Klinsmann who really wanted him to succed yet he could not convince the ppl to make him stay. And at Everton he also did not really succeed.
Dempsey played a good role at the Euroleague finalist Fulham as the first offensive guy of the bench this year and I do like his talent.

Its simply if you compare the role those guys play (and the minutes the get) on their european teams most of them are not the big guns. Guys like Cherundolo and Bradley are good guys and do have a small role in the German Bundesleague BUT if you look at the other teams in the tourney (even the South American or African teams) you see that most of the players on the good teams (and Im talking player (1-23) are playing major roles on their teams in some of europes top leagues.

So really no disrespect but the team is still not on par with the top teams i think.

the u.s. team was pretty much a worldwide joke for a long time, that's just reality.

i don't mean to suggest all of the players on the list are world class or even 1st team players in top european leagues, but meant to suggest that most of the team is not made up of the traditional perceived u.s. team. the team is improving every year, as more americans get into "the beautiful game" and the development of such talent has increased. there is still MUCH more room for growth, but the world cup roster is much different, in my view, than it has been in the past, when maybe half of the team played in europe and the rest in the mls (when it existed).

i regularly watch the english premier league, serie a, champions league, and some of la liga on tv in the u.s.

i won't claim to be a lifelong expert, but i do follow worldwide soccer/football fairly closely (taking the place of my old interest in baseball, hockey and even american football, which i follow more casually than i do world football/soccer) and at least think i have a somewhat decent idea about evaluating the difference between top level players and those who are not there. old u.s. teams struggled with their first touch and technical skills. that mountain has been climbed quite a bit, but not enough to put out enough players to field a top team. i would NEVER argue the u.s. is a top team, nor did i mean to imply that. top 15-20 is no big claim...is the u.s. really that much worse than switzerland, norway, or greece?

dononvan DID struggle in his stints in germany, no question, which has been a question mark that stands next to his career. however, that was in the past, and since last season with the galaxy (i believe he won mls mvp [i don't follow the mls too closely...because of the low level of play]...as he should) he has really shown himself to be more of the player that he was expected to become. there is an excellent interview with him in the new york times recently that shows a very interesting and unique level of self-awareness/maturity that perhaps has helped him...stemming from separation from his somewhat famous wife Bianca Kajlich.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/19/sports/soccer/19soccer.html?ref=sports

“

At 20, it was youthful exuberance and naïveté and literally just playing every day because you love to play,” Donovan said of his first World Cup in 2002, when he scored twice and made the honorable-mention all-World Cup team as the United States reached the quarterfinals.

“Now there’s more responsibility,” he said. “In my opinion, there’s also greater opportunity. I enjoy the challenge of that now. In 2006, that became burdensome. I wasn’t ready for it. Now I’m ready for it. I’m really excited for it.”

“I went through a period where there was a lot of attention; with that came a lot of pressure and a lot of soccer,” Donovan said. “I got to the point where it just wore me down. I thought to myself: Why am I doing this? This is just too much.”

He described himself as being lost then, having to find his way again.

“You hope you get back to a place where you find what this really means to you,” Donovan said. “It doesn’t mean every time I now go onto the field, I’m so excited like I was when I was 20. But you realize why you’re motivated to do it.”

my hope is that we are now starting to see the donovan that we should see, as we also saw in the confederations cup and at everton. and YES I KNOW HE'S NOT A SUPERSTAR (didn't i say before that the u.s. has no superstars?) certainly this world cup is going to be a huge test for him. i saw him interviewed on espn too and he clearly wants to go back to england next year, and realizes that a performance in the wc will be a huge asset to that opportunity. we'll see.

as for jozy, i think he is a young player that still needs development. i'm not entirely sure he wasn't good enough to play for hull overall, but perhaps was in a bad situation for a very young player who had never played abroad. there are plenty of young nba players with talent that don't start or get much playing time because of a manager's pressure to win. i followed hull a bit this season to see how he would do, and the manager seemed to struggle to find any combination of players to work. i think against higher level competition he needs to be on a team that can compete at least a little. he's 19, and was the leading goal scorer for the u.s. in qualification.

onyewu - hmm...not a good player? if that was the case then why did ac milan make a move for him last summer? he was considered a rising star before his knee injury. right now due to that, lack of match fitness, and confidence from recovery he IS a major question mark, but i do not think he is just a physical specimen. he has shown to do well in the past, and before his injury would probably be our best defender. i think you are right that he COULD end up hurting the team, but because the defense is weak the reliance on someone like him who was so well regarded, and has size/athletic ability is unfortunately what the u.s. has to rely on (he will come off the bench i suspect).

demerit - i ain't gonna argue with you here. the u.s. defense is shaky very much in part because of him. not that good of a player to rely on in a world cup.

edu - no big argument either. i think he is definitely one of the first players to be considered subbed, but he shows some signs here and there. beasley might spell him, i think.

here's the thing. the world cup, as you know, is not merely about who has the best players. it's about playing as a team. i remember the old dutch team of the early 00's with davids (used to be my favorite player) van nistelrooy, etc. that fielded an all-star team and didn't even make the world cup. let me repeat, i do not think the u.s. has talent on the level with the top nations, yet it is BETTER than it ever has been, and has shown to play well as a team in some competitions of late. nations that have less talent can cause a stir reaching the quarters, as did cameroon in 98, or senegal/turkey/us '02, or even greece winning euro '06. only brazil seems to have a record of being tournament proof in terms of not getting upset too early. the u.s. does have expectations to make the second round.

if that fails to happen it will be a disappointment.

I do recognize that this utter lack of understanding of te mechanics of the game is a thing of the past. US sport fans in general have more interest in football just because of the tv coverage and I know you guys know your stuff. So, apologies for that.

Having said that, I still believe Americans have never understood the passion of the game. Just Reading the above posts, you would never find an Englishman supporting another country before England were knocked out. It's unthinkable!!! Even if we do appreciate their style of play.

I do like your breakdown of the US team. Regarding Onyewu, my "little team" (you know the club I support to fill the time when United aren't playing) is Wolves, and when Onyewu was out of contract with Anderlecht, they brought him in for a trial. He obviously didn't do enough to win a contract and AC Milan snapped him up on a free IMO just based on his physical promise. Just ask Theo "next Wayne Rooney" Walcott how that works. If you don't have the footballing brain you just don't have it. And that's especiLly important at centre-back where its ALL about positioning, timing and knowledge. Cannavaro is about 5'10 but he was one of the best defenders in the world cuz he just knew how to play. Now don't get me wrong Onyewu might get it in the future but he hasn't gotten it yet.

I actually think DeMerit might be your best centre-back pairing with Bocanegra. The Championship might not be the most technical league in the world, but it's a rough and tumble league where you're tested week in week out. He's Watford captain I think, and should do well. Don't know anything about Bradley but you need a tough-tackling midfielder. Is he it?

That Pistons/Pacers brawl from '04 would have you guys yawning. Soccer fans get active!

sebstar wrote:Ya'll writing some mean ass essays over this shyt. I smell some UK hooligan language in a minute. I know you soccer heads take passion to a whole 'nother level.

That Pistons/Pacers brawl from '04 would have you guys yawning. Soccer fans get active!

that brawl was nothing...peanuts i tell ya! just look at what happens when **** pops off in a soccer match:

My favourite was when Thaksin Shinawatra, the disgraced former President of Thailand owned Manchester City. He was being investigated for fraud and had his assets frozen. So City fans sung to the tune of 500miles by the Pretenders;

And you can freeze 500 mil and you can freeze 500 more.
Cuz Thaksins got another billion underneath the bedroom floor.
Shinawatra! Shinawatra!

Just brilliant!

eViL wrote:i don't care who wins so long as england goes down in embarrassing fashion.

firefly gonna make a voodoo doll out of you

jimimou wrote:

eViL wrote:i don't care who wins so long as england goes down in embarrassing fashion.

firefly gonna make a voodoo doll out of you

haha. doesn't change my hate for their soccer team. ouch. my back!!