Marv wrote:

djsunyc wrote:the only player to get robbed of an mvp this decade was jason kidd in 02.

nash is a hall of famer and one of the best players in the nba over the past 7+ years.

dude - and i use that term loosely - you do realize that tim duncan won it that year playing 82 games, 41 min/game, putting up 26/13/4/3 shooting 51% and 80% from the ft line. you have heard of him right? you seriously have to stop commuting with wilson chandler.

LMAO

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:So what does this say about MDA who has had zero success as a coach before and now after NASH

The MDA years before Nash is speculative since you're talking about two partial seasons, bad teams in transition in both cases. Go back and read how MDA came to be the head coach in Denver and then PHX and you can see that neither were good situations. MOST coaches need talent to win or at least decent talent anyway. There are a few guys that actually do better with mediocre talent than they do with supreme talent. Mike Fratello, Scott Skiles and Larry Brown actually favor teams that don't have a bunch of superstar players or have maybe one great player and a bunch of grunts. MDA is not one of those coaches. MDA is not one of those coaches. However, if you give MDA some good talent to work with he can get some things done.

Nash was a good player when he was on Dallas, but if you remember back then he wasn't considered the best PG in the league. The guys people talked about 1st were Kidd & Steph. Nash was very good, but as i've said before, if he was considered MVP good Cuban would never have let him get away. You don't let a PG who you feel is MVP caliber walk away for nothing. Not if it was clear to everyone. That being the case you have to give MDA some credit for the boost. Just look at Nash's numbers and it's clear how much better he got under MDA. Now we're hoping he can do the same for Lebron if he comes here, but only in the manner of winning a title, since Lebron is already an MVP.

When has he proven that..

really? winning 54 games with Boris Diaw at center and Shawn Marion at PF in the West which is ruled by size and going to the West Conf Finals isnt getting something done?

Please... MDA may not be *great* but he's good. He did win coach of the year that year as well. Of course Brown won it last year and is about to be fired but who's counting

If he did that with chris duhon, it would be impressive as hell, but in all reality steve nash deserves the bulk of the credit for making every one on that team better then they actual were...none of those players (except for JJ) as proven to be anything more then avg on other teams.

Sorry your reasoning is @$$ backwards. First you ask when he has been given some decent talent and gotten something done. They answer that for you and you immediately switch back to the argument of what he can't do without decent talent. You can't have it both ways, this is the same tired argument repeated all over this forum. MDA is not a Skiles / LB type coach. He needs good players and has delivered results with them. But go ahead and write three more pages of meaningless posts about what he did with Duhon, like it even matters.

loweyecue wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:So what does this say about MDA who has had zero success as a coach before and now after NASH

The MDA years before Nash is speculative since you're talking about two partial seasons, bad teams in transition in both cases. Go back and read how MDA came to be the head coach in Denver and then PHX and you can see that neither were good situations. MOST coaches need talent to win or at least decent talent anyway. There are a few guys that actually do better with mediocre talent than they do with supreme talent. Mike Fratello, Scott Skiles and Larry Brown actually favor teams that don't have a bunch of superstar players or have maybe one great player and a bunch of grunts. MDA is not one of those coaches. MDA is not one of those coaches. However, if you give MDA some good talent to work with he can get some things done.

Nash was a good player when he was on Dallas, but if you remember back then he wasn't considered the best PG in the league. The guys people talked about 1st were Kidd & Steph. Nash was very good, but as i've said before, if he was considered MVP good Cuban would never have let him get away. You don't let a PG who you feel is MVP caliber walk away for nothing. Not if it was clear to everyone. That being the case you have to give MDA some credit for the boost. Just look at Nash's numbers and it's clear how much better he got under MDA. Now we're hoping he can do the same for Lebron if he comes here, but only in the manner of winning a title, since Lebron is already an MVP.

When has he proven that..

really? winning 54 games with Boris Diaw at center and Shawn Marion at PF in the West which is ruled by size and going to the West Conf Finals isnt getting something done?

Please... MDA may not be *great* but he's good. He did win coach of the year that year as well. Of course Brown won it last year and is about to be fired but who's counting

If he did that with chris duhon, it would be impressive as hell, but in all reality steve nash deserves the bulk of the credit for making every one on that team better then they actual were...none of those players (except for JJ) as proven to be anything more then avg on other teams.

Sorry your reasoning is @$$ backwards. First you ask when he has been given some decent talent and gotten something done. They answer that for you and you immediately switch back to the argument of what he can't do without decent talent. You can't have it both ways, this is the same tired argument repeated all over this forum. MDA is not a Skiles / LB type coach. He needs good players and has delivered results with them. But go ahead and write three more pages of meaningless posts about what he did with Duhon, like it even matters.

This is so true. We do this with every coach that came here and couldn't win with a bad roster. At some point we have to look at improving the roster and give a good coach a good team.

knicks1248, You are overlooking the fact that the coach is the one that sets up the roles for players and figures out how to get the most out of a given player. In the case of Diaw, he NEVER had a role like he had under MDA or had any such success. Nash doesn't rebound, pass, dribble drive, defend or make the jumpers for other players. He didn't create the plays they use or the overall philosophy that has made him even more successful than he was before playing under MDA. You have to give the coach credit for the things he actually does. Like manage the other players, develop and direct every aspect of the teams activities, make the call on rotations etc. There's a reason for having a head Coach and MDA is a very good one.

fishmike wrote:

sebstar wrote:A lot of writers sandbagged shaq in '05 because they thought they'd never get another chance to give the MVP to a little, white point guard.

In '06 he was unquestionably the MVP. Its kind of embarrassing because he's a back-to-back MVP winner and he's arguably not even a top 10 PG of all time.

thats a little rough... the 05 team won 62 games and were destroying teams. He mad Joe Johnson a very rich man that season. There was a month he averaged 15 assists over like a 12 game stretch. There was no answer for him. Then you take away his two most potent players in the Amare and JJ the next year and they win 54 and go 10-10 in the playoffs with Boris Diaw playing center.

That whole Nash is ordinary is crap. Being an athlete is more than just being athletic, even in the NBA. Nash may have the same veritical leap as Charles Oakley, but he's as quick as anyone. Does anyone use screens better? Any separation and your beat.

Shaq had just as good of a year in '05, so what was he doing getting 4th and 5th place votes and for couple of writers he was left completely off the ballot? That year it was a two man race and Nash won by the slimmest of margins. I think like 20 or 30 points.

I'm a Nash fan and all, and he definitely deserved it in '06 but his '05 MVP smelled a lil funky. I tell you this much, if those same writers would have known Nash would run away with it in '06, they wouldnt have given it to him in '05 because he's not a transcendent superstar like that to win back-to-back.

When you have an ideal pg like a nash, stock, kidd, ect.. who's 3rd option is to score and they still put up 17/18ppg along with double digit asst a night...My friend the coach is job is the easiest job in the world...

If you even took a browse through the SSOL book, you would KNOW that MDA for the most part asked Nash what he wanted to run during most TO, thats a FACT..but again, I'm not saying MDA is a bad coach, and I'm well aware of the talent you need to have to be a successful coach.. giving MDA that much CREDIT for having gain that kinda success on the strength of having a tailor made PG running his system...WOW...You got be kiding me..

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:So what does this say about MDA who has had zero success as a coach before and now after NASH

The MDA years before Nash is speculative since you're talking about two partial seasons, bad teams in transition in both cases. Go back and read how MDA came to be the head coach in Denver and then PHX and you can see that neither were good situations. MOST coaches need talent to win or at least decent talent anyway. There are a few guys that actually do better with mediocre talent than they do with supreme talent. Mike Fratello, Scott Skiles and Larry Brown actually favor teams that don't have a bunch of superstar players or have maybe one great player and a bunch of grunts. MDA is not one of those coaches. However, if you give MDA some good talent to work with he can get some things done.

Nash was a good player when he was on Dallas, but if you remember back then he wasn't considered the best PG in the league. The guys people talked about 1st were Kidd & Steph. Nash was very good, but as i've said before, if he was considered MVP good Cuban would never have let him get away. You don't let a PG who you feel is MVP caliber walk away for nothing. Not if it was clear to everyone. That being the case you have to give MDA some credit for the boost. Just look at Nash's numbers and it's clear how much better he got under MDA. Now we're hoping he can do the same for Lebron if he comes here, but only in the manner of winning a title, since Lebron is already an MVP.

The year before D'Antoni took over the Suns they had won 44 games and gone to the playoffs. The team had the same players when D'Antoni took over including a core of Marbury, Marion, Stoudemire and Johnson. Marbury was traded that January and Stoudemire did miss some games due to injury but that wasn't a rebuilding roster. That team had experienced success the previous season.

This is the type of misleading stuff I can't stand. MDA takes over the team which was underperforming and Amare was already out with a sprained Ankle. Joe Johnson wasn't the JJ we all know as he wasn't starting and was lacking confidence. He did better once Penny was gone, who was starting instead of him. Steph was there for about 13 games. So it's not like MDA had him there for any appreciable amount of time. So basically there was a lot of change going on. The reason Why MDA kept the job is that they were happy with his work with the remaining players. Final record isn't everything.

djsunyc wrote:the only player to get robbed of an mvp this decade was jason kidd in 02.

nash is a hall of famer and one of the best players in the nba over the past 7+ years.

Yea, I pretty much have to agree with that....

sebstar wrote:

fishmike wrote:

sebstar wrote:A lot of writers sandbagged shaq in '05 because they thought they'd never get another chance to give the MVP to a little, white point guard.

In '06 he was unquestionably the MVP. Its kind of embarrassing because he's a back-to-back MVP winner and he's arguably not even a top 10 PG of all time.

thats a little rough... the 05 team won 62 games and were destroying teams. He mad Joe Johnson a very rich man that season. There was a month he averaged 15 assists over like a 12 game stretch. There was no answer for him. Then you take away his two most potent players in the Amare and JJ the next year and they win 54 and go 10-10 in the playoffs with Boris Diaw playing center.

That whole Nash is ordinary is crap. Being an athlete is more than just being athletic, even in the NBA. Nash may have the same veritical leap as Charles Oakley, but he's as quick as anyone. Does anyone use screens better? Any separation and your beat.

Shaq had just as good of a year in '05, so what was he doing getting 4th and 5th place votes and for couple of writers he was left completely off the ballot? That year it was a two man race and Nash won by the slimmest of margins. I think like 20 or 30 points.

I'm a Nash fan and all, and he definitely deserved it in '06 but his '05 MVP smelled a lil funky. I tell you this much, if those same writers would have known Nash would run away with it in '06, they wouldnt have given it to him in '05 because he's not a transcendent superstar like that to win back-to-back.

I do think that writes get tired of voting for the same guys, even if they ARE the most valuable. So Nash was fresh on that scene and that helped him... it clearly did