nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Enough with the defense criticism....D'antoni designed a defense this year with Jared as the anchor and it was pretty effective considering the players aren't known to be good defenders. So stop spreading lies.

Donnie gotta bring in the talent and hopefully the chemistry and the system catches on fast.

You are right to a point. MDA did put Jeffries in a role but that stayed the same for every game. There was no game planning for opponents or adjustments made after the initial adjustment. That isn't scouting an opponent and preparing.

You realize that MDA won more than 54 games in every season he coached the Suns and he coached the same way! his style is to make teams adjust to what you do rather than all this changing. In a sense it logical when you have a smallish team that can't play a different way. They can't be a bigtime post team with no post players. Only a very versatile roster can switch up all the time. If you're the Spurs, Celts or Lakers you can do that cuz those were great rosters with real size and versatility. The Suns never had that and we certainly didn't have that here the last two years.

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Enough with the defense criticism....D'antoni designed a defense this year with Jared as the anchor and it was pretty effective considering the players aren't known to be good defenders. So stop spreading lies.

Donnie gotta bring in the talent and hopefully the chemistry and the system catches on fast.

You are right to a point. MDA did put Jeffries in a role but that stayed the same for every game. There was no game planning for opponents or adjustments made after the initial adjustment. That isn't scouting an opponent and preparing.

You realize that MDA won more than 54 games in every season he coached the Suns and he coached the same way! his style is to make teams adjust to what you do rather than all this changing. In a sense it logical when you have a smallish team that can't play a different way. They can't be a bigtime post team with no post players. Only a very versatile roster can switch up all the time. If you're the Spurs, Celts or Lakers you can do that cuz those were great rosters with real size and versatility. The Suns never had that and we certainly didn't have that here the last two years.

You realize that D'Antoni wins at a rate of 34% during the four seasons when Steve Nash isn't his point guard. I think the system's success has a lot more to do with having the ball in Nash's hand than anything else.

To really test this stat you'd have to have a good lead player under MDA other than Nash. You can't just take away a coaches best player and then say "OH he can't win without that guy". How many games is Brown winning without Lebron. How did the Raps do when Bosh went down? Plus it's not just the absence of Nash, but the absence of a good team period. You can't use the 1st year he was a head coach in the NBA in the partial season he had in Denver, his partial 1st yr in PHX when he took over a losing team, his two years here with our incomplete roster and then try to prove a point using those teams. That's what makes up the bulk of the bad record that people use against MDA.

The thing is that EVERY coach needs good players to win. Some coaches can make more of bad rosters, but in the end that's not the point of the NBA. You WANT a great roster so you can win a title. Who cares if you can win some games with a bad team? You want to win a ton of games and a title with a Great team!!!! That's what this summer is all about. Just ask Phil Jackson what kind of teams he wants to coach. A roster like MDA had the last two years or a fully stocked roster like he's had most of his career?

Uptown wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Enough with the defense criticism....D'antoni designed a defense this year with Jared as the anchor and it was pretty effective considering the players aren't known to be good defenders. So stop spreading lies.

Donnie gotta bring in the talent and hopefully the chemistry and the system catches on fast.

You are right to a point. MDA did put Jeffries in a role but that stayed the same for every game. There was no game planning for opponents or adjustments made after the initial adjustment. That isn't scouting an opponent and preparing.

You realize that MDA won more than 54 games in every season he coached the Suns and he coached the same way! his style is to make teams adjust to what you do rather than all this changing. In a sense it logical when you have a smallish team that can't play a different way. They can't be a bigtime post team with no post players. Only a very versatile roster can switch up all the time. If you're the Spurs, Celts or Lakers you can do that cuz those were great rosters with real size and versatility. The Suns never had that and we certainly didn't have that here the last two years.

You realize that D'Antoni wins at a rate of 34% during the four seasons when Steve Nash isn't his point guard. I think the system's success has a lot more to do with having the ball in Nash's hand than anything else.

Everytime someone brings up any type of argument in favor of MDA, you always play the Nash card. What coach doesn't need a great player to win? With that said, lets look closely at the teams MDA coached without Nash:

1997-98 Nuggets

Laphonso Ellis
Dean Garrett
Danny Fortson
Bobby Jackson
Eric Washington
Joe Wolf
Tony Battie

This was the core of that Nuggets team. Who the Hell is winning with that roster? Red Arbauch aint winning with that team and Phil Jackson aint answering the phone if they called him in for interview.

2003-04 Suns

*Stoudemire (only played 55 games)
*Marbury (was traded after 34 games. His trade coupled with Stoudemire being out sank the season)
Joe Johnson
Shawn Marion

And that was pretty much it. After Marb got traded, Barbosa, who was a rookie, was forced to play the point and not only wasn't he ready but it was proven as the years progressed that he wasn't a point anyway. Stoudemire was out of the lineup aswell, leaving a young Joe Johnson and Marion as the main two guys. Hardaway was a shell of himself, and McDyess hadn't fully recovered from knee surgery. The rest of the roster was Scott Williams, Casey Jacobson and Jake Voskuhl. That team was going no where that season.

Knicks 2008-present

Dont need to get into how bad the rosters have been since he got here. Steve Nash or not, you need enought talented pieced to win in this league. The Nuggets squad he had looked more like a D-League team and the Knicks have been...well...the Knicks. It seems like he's gone from a talnted to team (Suns) to rock bottom (Knicks and Nuggets). Nothing in between.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!! This is what infuriates me. Just post a stat with no frame of reference or context.

The thing is we don't just PHil or Riley on how they did with bad teams, we judge them for their championship teams which had ALL WORLD TALENT!!! Great coaching of bad teams is akin to a moral victory, cuz in the end you can never win a title with that team. All that matters is how you coach a great team! Give MDA a great team and i'll take my chances with him winning a title. I mean how great is Doc Rivers? I'm pretty sure he's really good, but having KG, Pierce, Allen and Rondo makes a big difference.

EnySpree wrote:

Papabear wrote:

nixluva wrote:MDA's teams were always decent defensively but couldve been better if not for the lack of a real C and having Nash n Amare up the middle. Nash tries hard but Amare never did until this year. He's a big fake cuz he knows damn well they tried to get him to defend for years and he refused. They brought in KT specifically to help the D and in that season the team ranked 13th in Defensive rate per 100 possessions, meanwhile they ranked #1 in offense.

Those teams never had any major defensive talent. We have a good start with Gallo, Chan, TD n Walker. You add Lebron, Bosh n a shotblocker and this would be a very good defensive team.

Papabear Says
We better face facts! D'Antoni ain't no defensive coach and if you want to go deep in the play-off you just can't be good you must be great defensivly. That's why Boston took out LeBron and the Cavs. Look we have nothing to offer LeBron but the Mystic of New York being the Mecca and if he goes to Chicago then he will always be second potatto or 3rd behind Scotty Pippen. If he does that then he will have punked out. But I can't blame him if he choose not to come to New York because we have nothing to offer. To win a championship today you need at least 2 superstars and 1 almost superstar all pro.

Face facts? We laid out the facts already. You obviously don't know what the hell you are talking about. Sounding like a mark berman groupie.

Knicks have bosh to offer....that's the reason for the 36 million cap space. Ball is in their court. Knicks would just design the team around them....Knicks are held hostage until they make their decision.

Plan b? 36 million dollars....nuff said

36 years 36years 36 years That's all I've been hearing. And for the last 10 year all I've been hearing is wait till next year. I repeat if Lebron come to New York it won't be because of the players. It will be the only place where he could be greater than Jordan, and Kobe if he can will 3 chanpion ships

Papabear wrote:

nixluva wrote:Like many here i've been here for the whole ride of non title years since the last Knick title. I think this is another chance to get back to that level and I want LBJ,BOSH & MDA here for this 1st couple of years. I think MDA will give those guys an edge against the rest of the league in terms of having an answer for packed in defenses. Lebron has been at a disadvantage and here he'd be able to get the help MDA can give and a better supporting cast. I bet Nash appreciates the guidance that MDA gave him which has helped him to reach the heights he's been playing at since they hooked up. When you look at Nash's stats you see a marked jump in production since he got with MDA and his system. When they briefly went away from the system his numbers dipped. The truth is that Nash has also benefitted from what MDA exposed him to and that's why he wanted to return to that style. Give MDA his due!

Papabear Says
Nixluva did you see the game tonight? The lakers scored 128 points. Nash team is no match for the Lakers. Defense is what it is and D'Antoni don't teach it MDA system will win games but when it comes to the playoffs it's a loosing project. If Lebron has any brains he will see this. Mda is the wrong man. Take it from a fellow record producer.

The whole playoff run all people talked about was how much more D the Suns were playing. I said that they weren't really playing great D, just better than they've played of late. The Suns are still a team that is FAR less talented than the Lakers. Nash and Amare are the best they have verses a HUGE lineup of studs. The Suns still don't have an offensive post threat nor a really solid post defender.

The problem that the Suns have is that the Lakers are more talented with more size. Unless you can put a team together that is equally talented and can combat that size it's gonna be hard to beat them. You don't necessarily have to be just as big, but you better have a style of play that is just as hard to stop. That's what we're trying to do here. Put together the best team we can. After you build it then you have to install your system and let it do what it does. Just cuz you bring in some guy that talks defense all the time doesn't mean you're gonna win a title. Goodness knows that Mike Brown, Avery Johnson and a whole lot of other guys have talked that talk and haven't won.

Lakes have been the favorite all along. The suns ran ths spurs out of the building and I have thought all along the lakes will do them in 5.

he has track record & been good NBA coach. Agreed np

But if your assistants Herb Williams and the Brothers Grimm (brothers D'Antoni & Phil Webber) cant add any value
to their jobs perhaps.

Seems to me Webber, Herb & brother Dantoni although nice guys been pretty use-less in 2 seasons under MDA
I aint goin to take MDA off hook for that he chose his coaches. Time for a change. NBA teams bring guys
in their staff all the time to plug a hole & fix something. (See T.Thibodeau Doc Rivers assistant in Boston)

Well Knicks need defensive fixing and DJ always going to chat about it, I don't see it so vital to MDA

EnySpree wrote:Djmusic I read your posts and I'm reminded why I don't post that often anymore. Where are my ukmafia bros at?

I'm cool w/ya

I feel MDA has 1-2 yrs more on his contract we gotta see what he does and what Walsh does.
I have more a problem with coaches (Assistants) and the feeling we cant get back to tough team tough town lunchpail
style of play OR mafia style.

Anything wrong ? with hard D and efforts we used to see ? Sure it goes along with talent.
But until I see guys get up guys tails for missing defense assignments I am going to complain.

I cant see anyone on Knicks sidelines complain as much on defense end and offense end when players are not making effort on
both ends.

All in all we want the same thang. I hope MDA is successful
I am old school defensive guy. Want back that nasty style of Knick play nothing easy to the basket and hard play.

The hated Celtics play that way & I cant stand them CELTICs. I disdain Boston more than Lakers cause of
Knicks/ Celtics Atlantic eastern division competition.