Finestrg wrote:

fishmike wrote:the only way you do this is if you strike out on FAs and essentially do a 1 year rebuild loading up on cheaper talent, bought draft picks and Euro FAs. Then try again next year with cap space and you dont have to resign Chandler.

Whiteside looks like a guy who is 3 years away minimum. Short on skills and muscles

Respectfully disagree all-around Fish...This kid Whiteside's the real deal, a guy I'd go after whether I scored in FA or not. It might take him a little time to realize his full potential in the NBA (though I think he can definitely come in and help out right away, at least defensively) and the body still needs a little work but he's definitely not a guy I'd classify as being "short on skills." I was reading somewhere yesterday where some guy was comparing him to Marcus Camby on defense with the offensive potential of LeMarcus Aldridge. Just looking at some tape and watching him a couple of times live, I'd say that's fairly accurate. And that's nice. Really nice. He definitely has good two-way potential. He had a really nice freshman season. Interesting to note -- just looking over Marshall's schedule, it looks like Whiteside's top competition came from Tulsa and Jerome Jordan. Saw Jordan play a few times & although I'm not his biggest fan (he doesn't have the potential this kid Whiteside has for example), he is a legit 7' C prospect himself that came into these matchups with a decided edge in experience over Whiteside (JJ was a senior, Whiteside a freshman). They played each other 3 times, with Tulsa taking 2 out of 3. Outside of the first game where Jordan got the better of Whiteside, they played each other fairly evenly despite Jordan being much more of a focal point offensively for his club (in the 3 matchups, Jordan had 42 shot attempts total to Whiteside's 33. Overall, Jordan also played 110 total minutes in those 3 games to HW's 81. Here's a closer look at those matchups:

2/3/2010 @ Tulsa, Tulsa won 73-69
Jordan: 24/12 & 3 blocks
Whiteside: 10/1 & 5 blocks

2/17/2010 @ Marshall, Marshall won 64-58
Jordan: 13/15 & 2
Whiteside: 17/9 & 4

3/11/2010 @ Marshall, Tulsa won 80-64
Jordan: 21/12 & 2
Whiteside: 14/10 & 6

Again, Whiteside was only a freshman....Anyone know if there's a link to see a replay of any of these games? Looks like ESPN 360 (ESPN 3) dumped all of their archived men's basketball already. I'd be interested in taking a good look at these 3 games...

CBS college sports Channel had the last two of those games + I saw him against West Virginia. This kid is the real deal. He is 20 pounds of muscle away--but here is the difference between him and many other prospects

A-his combination of athletic ability length and coordination
B-unlike many many C--he actually can shoot the ball--and while his post moves are raw they are there--if he hones it all in--watch out.
C-He probably was the best shot blocker year 1 since Alonzo Mourning/Marcus Camby
D--He runs the floor very well/good speed
E-You can see where his rebounding will translate over to the NBA game even though he had a few games that were porous. Believe it or not Marcus Camby was not a great college rebounder

Jerome jordan is more defined as a player--that should be a given when you play 4 years. [the reality is the knicks might end up with jerome jordan where we are picking--not the worst but no wher near this kids upside.

This guys upside is a better version of Marcus Camby with better offensive skills.

fishmike wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

fishmike wrote:the only way you do this is if you strike out on FAs and essentially do a 1 year rebuild loading up on cheaper talent, bought draft picks and Euro FAs. Then try again next year with cap space and you dont have to resign Chandler.

Whiteside looks like a guy who is 3 years away minimum. Short on skills and muscles

Respectfully disagree all-around Fish...This kid Whiteside's the real deal, a guy I'd go after whether I scored in FA or not. It might take him a little time to realize his full potential in the NBA (though I think he can definitely come in and help out right away, at least defensively) and the body still needs a little work but he's definitely not a guy I'd classify as being "short on skills." I was reading somewhere yesterday where some guy was comparing him to Marcus Camby on defense with the offensive potential of LeMarcus Aldridge. Just looking at some tape and watching him a couple of times live, I'd say that's fairly accurate. And that's nice. Really nice. He definitely has good two-way potential. He had a really nice freshman season. Interesting to note -- just looking over Marshall's schedule, it looks like Whiteside's top competition came from Tulsa and Jerome Jordan. Saw Jordan play a few times & although I'm not his biggest fan (he doesn't have the potential this kid Whiteside has for example), he is legit 7' C prospect that came into these matchups with a pretty big edge in experience over Whiteside - JJ was a senior, Whiteside a freshman. They played each other 3 times, with Tulsa taking 2 out of 3. Outside of the first game where Jordan got the better of Whiteside, they played each other fairly evenly despite Jordan being much more of a focal point offensively for his club (in the 3 matchups, Jordan had 42 shot attempts total to Whiteside's 33. Overall, Jordan also played 110 total minutes in those 3 games to HW's 81. Here's a closer look at those matchups:

2/3/2010 @ Tulsa, Tulsa won 73-69
Jordan: 24/12 & 3 blocks
Whiteside: 10/1 & 5 blocks

2/17/2010 @ Marshall, Marshall won 64-58
Jordan: 13/15 & 2
Whiteside: 17/9 & 4

3/11/2010 @ Marshall, Tulsa won 80-64
Jordan: 21/12 & 2
Whiteside: 14/10 & 6

Again, Whiteside was only a freshman....Anyone know if there's a link to see a replay of any of these games? Looks like ESPN 360 (ESPN 3) dumped all of their archived men's basketball already. I'd be interested in taking a good look at these 3 games...

not impressed by good numbers against Jerome Jordon.

Just look at him. Look at his body. There isnt a PF/C he can guard in the NBA right now. He would average 12 minutes and 6 PFs in NBA. David Lee would back him down and dunk in his face. He might be a good prospect. He might fill out nicely and have a Camby type build (a guy who's misses 30 games a year). Its not happening for a couple of years though. You cant plug this guy into your line up and think he's going to run around swatting shots of NBA players.

Its a skill league.

Is he a better prospect than Thabeet? A better shotblocker? Hows that working out? How about Anthony Randolph for that matter?

Fish, much respect for ya, but I just don't see where you're coming from. The Jerome Jordan comparisons are valid for two reasons: (1) Jordan's a pretty decent C prospect in his own right (nothing I'd call great but decent/serviceable) and (2) he was the best individual competition Whiteside faced this past year and he faced him 3X.

I think comparing builds with Marcus Camby is accurate but how can you predict injury like that? This guy played in every game for Marshall this year and showed steady improvement as the year went on. At first I don't think he was even a starter... And he only fouled out of one game...Does he have a little ways to go? Sure. Can he benefit from adding some more strength & bulk by putting on another 10-20 pounds of muscle? Sure. I think his frame could support that... But man, if you don't see the vast two-way potential that I do, I don't know what to say. Again, Marcus Camby defensively/LeMarcus Aldridge (maybe better) offensively. You wouldn't take that on this club? Man I would bro...

And why would you say you couldn't picture him blocking shots in the NBA? I could. I think that aspect of his game is a given. The strength and offense might take a little time to develop but they seem workable and upgradable to me. I actually think he has some real nice ability offensively right now..I think it's scary to think what he could become in only a short period of time..

You're right that the NBA's a skill league and I see a guy with plenty with this kid Whiteside. He's got skill oozing out of his ears..He's a much better athlete than Hasheem Thabeet (not even close) with much more skill and it's tough to compare him to Randolph -- Randolph is more of a big SF...And he was hurt. Whiteside's more of a PF/C..And when did you see David Lee back one guy down all year long and dunk on him?? Come on man, that's not D Lee's game at all. Again, could Whiteside benefit from putting on another 10-20 lbs? You bet he could. And I have no doubt that'll come and come soon (the club that drafts him will make that an immediate priority --- we're not talking adding 50 lbs here, only 10, maybe 15 lbs. He could do that in a couple of weeks..I love this kid's potential, I really do. I might even consider parting ways with Gallinari if I could secure a high enough draft pick to get him...

BRIGGS wrote:

Pharzeone wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Mark my words--Hassan Whiteside is going to be the best C in this draft and a top 3 player from it. So 3 years from now we dont get posts saying BRIGGS weren't you hot on Omar Samhan[although he might be a very decent back up:)] or Alabi etc...:)

You were hot on some other stiffs not named Bynum. I just can't remember.

Brook Lopez or Amare Stoudemire? Javale Mcgee A Randolph?

BJ Mullens will turn into a nice little C in 2 years

The two guys I got wrong were Morris Almond and Marcus Williams in the late 20's. I still don't think Marcus Williams is a bust.

to be fair - you wanted marcus williams at pick 20 when we picked renaldo balkman. and you just started another thread about how we could have taken rondo at 20. i wanted marcus williams there, too. but we would have both been wrong. rondo is the far superior talent.

crzymdups wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Pharzeone wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Mark my words--Hassan Whiteside is going to be the best C in this draft and a top 3 player from it. So 3 years from now we dont get posts saying BRIGGS weren't you hot on Omar Samhan[although he might be a very decent back up:)] or Alabi etc...:)

You were hot on some other stiffs not named Bynum. I just can't remember.

Brook Lopez or Amare Stoudemire? Javale Mcgee A Randolph?

BJ Mullens will turn into a nice little C in 2 years

The two guys I got wrong were Morris Almond and Marcus Williams in the late 20's. I still don't think Marcus Williams is a bust.

to be fair - you wanted marcus williams at pick 20 when we picked renaldo balkman. and you just started another thread about how we could have taken rondo at 20. i wanted marcus williams there, too. but we would have both been wrong. rondo is the far superior talent.

I never said anything about Rondo--youre right I wouldve taken Marcus Williams. I was just kind of looking at our luck--we take balkman next pick is rondo curry gets taken one pick beofre us and Bradnen Jennings gets 1 after us we take frye la takes bynum etc...

Another thing is Whiteside is 21 next month. This is not a freshman that just turned 19. He's underdeveloped physically for the NBA, and by alot.

Briggs and Finstr... I'm not disagreeing with your assesment of him as a prospect. But if you think your going to trade a solid NBA rotation guy like Chandler and get a prospect like this back you have to understand this isnt a guy your plugging into your rotation next year. This guy will get destroyed next year. Maybe if he hits the HGH and puts on 20 things would be different, but right now Channing Frye is pushing him around.

Everything you read about this kid is he's a long term project and is a low BB IQ player.

I think the reason Walsh is in Paris is to find some guys who are mid-late 20s who can help out and contribute right away. Someone like Whiteside doesnt fit with this coach, and doesnt make sense as far as the direction of the team. 3 year projects dont make sense at this point, unless its a 2nd round pick on a Euro player that can stay over seas for a couple years.

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:Marcus Camby led the NBA in blocked shots his rookie year. So her came in and did things right away. Now it took him quite a few years in the league (5? 6?) before he became the elite rebounder he has been later in his career. In fact it happened after he came to the Knicks.

Another thing is Whiteside is 21 next month. This is not a freshman that just turned 19. He's underdeveloped physically for the NBA, and by alot.

Briggs and Finstr... I'm not disagreeing with your assesment of him as a prospect. But if you think your going to trade a solid NBA rotation guy like Chandler and get a prospect like this back you have to understand this isnt a guy your plugging into your rotation next year. This guy will get destroyed next year. Maybe if he hits the HGH and puts on 20 things would be different, but right now Channing Frye is pushing him around.

Everything you read about this kid is he's a long term project and is a low BB IQ player.

I think the reason Walsh is in Paris is to find some guys who are mid-late 20s who can help out and contribute right away. Someone like Whiteside doesnt fit with this coach, and doesnt make sense as far as the direction of the team. 3 year projects dont make sense at this point, unless its a 2nd round pick on a Euro player that can stay over seas for a couple years.

fishmike--I just read where 45 year old former drug addict Robert Downey Jr put on 20 pounds of muscle from 153 to 175 for im2. Did he take some HGH--well that guy might ingest anything--but when you train with guys who know how to train--20 pounds of muscle is easy for a 20 year old kid. Were not getting him anyway--I just think hes got a chance to be pretty special if he works hard.

I just see him as a poor choice because he's to far away from helping and this doesnt seem like a coaching staff that will work to get him minutes to improve. He's got very narrow shoulders and 20 pounds of muscle isnt a given.

One guy I would def take a long look at is Earl Clark. I think he could fit really well. Very long skilled player. Plays both ends. Does everything pretty well. Only got spot minutes his rookie year. Played a few games in the DLeague and put up good #s there. Pho might just dump his salary to bring back Frye/Hill/Amare, etc and let Clark go for a 2nd rounder to avoid luxury tax.

I'm just trying to think of guys that could come in and play and help us win right away. He would also look good off the bench behind Lee/Bosh

BRIGGS wrote:Mark my words--Hassan Whiteside is going to be the best C in this draft and a top 3 player from it. So 3 years from now we dont get posts saying BRIGGS weren't you hot on Omar Samhan[although he might be a very decent back up:)] or Alabi etc...:)

All snarkishness aside. Alabi has more potential in the long term. There are a lot of parallels between him and Olajuwon. And I know I will be laughed at out loud for saying this- Alabi has the physical tools to get to Hakeem's level. Sure he was not as productive as most expected him to be but it is rather difficult to be a
dominate player when no one else on the squad is respected and you get 3 guys on you as soon as you touch the ball. And Marshall does not play a schedule anything like the ACC. I seriously expect his draft measurements to place him in the lower lottery. The fella has no more than 6 years of ball on his resume.

Besides name me another center who hits 80+% of his free throws?

Olbrannon wrote:Still don't see any upside to trading Ill Will. He's just coming into his own. Plays 3 positions. Plays defense.
If he was on another team the lot of you would be salivating over his skills at the price he gets paid.

Fans lack of patience with this cat is an indictment of NY fans. Good, hardworking, talented, improves every year.

BRIGGS wrote:for pick 8--they have no SF and we need a shot blocking C--Hassan Whiteside.

I'd do that Deal in a heartbeat
1-10 picks are going to be some kind of player available to build on.

I like Wes Chandler and his development. However between Lee and Wes I rather NOT lose David Lee whom seems all but gone.

You have to give up something to get something or somewhere better. I dont think Wes is kind of player whom gonna break
or make Knicks. He is improving but on a good team Chandler will be 4th at most best player all around.

I would take a chance on Wes if he can be a #2 or #3 best player on skill set level
however though Chandler is improving he is a very good player whom may not even exceed David Lee's talent
and I say that respectfully cause I dont feel Lee will ever be on par of #1's LBJ, Kobe, Wade of course
and at most Lee is marginal on par with 2nd level stars such as Bosh and Joe Johnson, ect.

If Wes cant even approach that then Chandler is good trade bait for me, since Wes can bring back something in return.

TMS wrote:make that trade & with our luck Whiteside gets taken #7 while we end up with Donatas Motiejunas who decides to stay in Europe.

Um ...we took a PF/C at what pick last year...who spent how much time on the floor? Don't even go there. It would be a clear waste.