fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:And pairing Chris Bosh, Amare Stoudemire or Carlos Boozer with David Lee is a terrible idea. This is not a video game or fantasy basketball. Two frontcourt players are never going to average 40 and 20 between them.

Duncan and Robinson: 21.6/10.6 and 21.1/11.9 in 1997. They did it 3x after that

Anthony Mason averaged 15/9 next to Ewing who got 22/11

Amare average 26/9. Marion average 19/11 next to him. 2 years later they averaged 38/20 between them. The year after that 40/20.

Amare and Shaq combined for 40/17 after Marion was gone.

Jermaine Oneil + Brad Miller w/ the Pacers 35/18 together
Next year 34/19

Bosh + Bargs 38 points and 15 rebounds (only cause Bargs boards like a girl)

Boozer and Okur 35/18 combined

Last time the Clippers went to the playoffs? (they won 47 games) Kaman and Brand combined for 37 points and 19 rebs

Howard and Turko 37 points, 19 rebs and the finals

Alonzo and LJ combined for 41 points, 17 rebs and that team won 50 games

Seeing a pattern? No? I will explain... you start two bigtime frontcourt players and your going to the playoffs.

I dont know what NBA your watching but there is a reason GMs are willing to overpay to get a 2nd and 3rd bigtime frontcourt player. Like Camby next to Aldridge, like adding KMart when you already have Camby/Nene, like adding Turko when you already have Bosh/Bargs.

This is the NORM, not the exception. You want to build a winning team I am in 100% agreement with Briggs. Give me two guys that play close to the basket, score at a high FG% and rebound the ball.

you dont think Boozer and Lee cant play together? You kidding? Those guys would be cleaning the glass and attacking the offensive glass all night. Thats a nightmare to have to deal with.

Come on, Tim Duncan and David Robinson is the best Center/PF combo in NBA history. It doesn't compare. Both of those guys can block shots. And Robinson took a back seat to Duncan, which made it easier to work.

And your other comparisons are a little off. Most of those duos had a true Center, not two PF's. David Lee and Carlos Boozer would give up 100 points in the paint between them.

fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:And pairing Chris Bosh, Amare Stoudemire or Carlos Boozer with David Lee is a terrible idea. This is not a video game or fantasy basketball. Two frontcourt players are never going to average 40 and 20 between them.

Duncan and Robinson: 21.6/10.6 and 21.1/11.9 in 1997. They did it 3x after that

Anthony Mason averaged 15/9 next to Ewing who got 22/11

Amare average 26/9. Marion average 19/11 next to him. 2 years later they averaged 38/20 between them. The year after that 40/20.

Amare and Shaq combined for 40/17 after Marion was gone.

Jermaine Oneil + Brad Miller w/ the Pacers 35/18 together
Next year 34/19

Bosh + Bargs 38 points and 15 rebounds (only cause Bargs boards like a girl)

Boozer and Okur 35/18 combined

Last time the Clippers went to the playoffs? (they won 47 games) Kaman and Brand combined for 37 points and 19 rebs

Howard and Turko 37 points, 19 rebs and the finals

Alonzo and LJ combined for 41 points, 17 rebs and that team won 50 games

Seeing a pattern? No? I will explain... you start two bigtime frontcourt players and your going to the playoffs.

I dont know what NBA your watching but there is a reason GMs are willing to overpay to get a 2nd and 3rd bigtime frontcourt player. Like Camby next to Aldridge, like adding KMart when you already have Camby/Nene, like adding Turko when you already have Bosh/Bargs.

This is the NORM, not the exception. You want to build a winning team I am in 100% agreement with Briggs. Give me two guys that play close to the basket, score at a high FG% and rebound the ball.

you dont think Boozer and Lee cant play together? You kidding? Those guys would be cleaning the glass and attacking the offensive glass all night. Thats a nightmare to have to deal with.

fishmike--you put two great frontcourt players together and you are going to go to the playoffs in the east and compete. Of course you need other components but when you start talking about two guys who can average 20-10 and 55% who can interchange and you can always keep atleast 1 premium guy on the floor--I mean the best of all worlds would be 3 great frontcourt players like the Lakers have.

iSergio wrote:How are we defending the paint with Chris Bosh/Amare Stoudemire/Carlos Boozer and David Lee? Please explain because I don't get it. Basketball is played at both sides of the court, you know?

Im sorry but if youre the team with chris bosh and david lee--you will be doing the damage on the other teams.

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:And pairing Chris Bosh, Amare Stoudemire or Carlos Boozer with David Lee is a terrible idea. This is not a video game or fantasy basketball. Two frontcourt players are never going to average 40 and 20 between them.

Duncan and Robinson: 21.6/10.6 and 21.1/11.9 in 1997. They did it 3x after that

Anthony Mason averaged 15/9 next to Ewing who got 22/11

Amare average 26/9. Marion average 19/11 next to him. 2 years later they averaged 38/20 between them. The year after that 40/20.

Amare and Shaq combined for 40/17 after Marion was gone.

Jermaine Oneil + Brad Miller w/ the Pacers 35/18 together
Next year 34/19

Bosh + Bargs 38 points and 15 rebounds (only cause Bargs boards like a girl)

Boozer and Okur 35/18 combined

Last time the Clippers went to the playoffs? (they won 47 games) Kaman and Brand combined for 37 points and 19 rebs

Howard and Turko 37 points, 19 rebs and the finals

Alonzo and LJ combined for 41 points, 17 rebs and that team won 50 games

Seeing a pattern? No? I will explain... you start two bigtime frontcourt players and your going to the playoffs.

I dont know what NBA your watching but there is a reason GMs are willing to overpay to get a 2nd and 3rd bigtime frontcourt player. Like Camby next to Aldridge, like adding KMart when you already have Camby/Nene, like adding Turko when you already have Bosh/Bargs.

This is the NORM, not the exception. You want to build a winning team I am in 100% agreement with Briggs. Give me two guys that play close to the basket, score at a high FG% and rebound the ball.

you dont think Boozer and Lee cant play together? You kidding? Those guys would be cleaning the glass and attacking the offensive glass all night. Thats a nightmare to have to deal with.

fishmike--you put two great frontcourt players together and you are going to go to the playoffs in the east and compete. Of course you need other components but when you start talking about two guys who can average 20-10 and 55% who can interchange and you can always keep atleast 1 premium guy on the floor--I mean the best of all worlds would be 3 great frontcourt players like the Lakers have.

Sergio I dont know how else to spell it out for you. I dont know why you cant see that two bigtime frontcourt players can be effective together. Should I give you another 10 examples?

Lee isnt a volume player. He shoots 55% for phucks sakes.

When you field a frontcourt with one skilled bigman you can scheme for that. Thats why teams so covet that 2nd guy.

I have been way down (and still am) on Bosh, but you run out a frontcourt of Bosh/Lee/Gallo everynight your going to the playoffs. Get some wings that can defend and shoot and you have the start of something. Your certainly much better than you were last year.

Utah gave up Brewer for NOTHING just to cut salary off their luxry tax and he played an important roll for them, yet they opted to pay Milsap $8mm to be a bench player. Dont you get why?

But Let's say we give Lee 11 million. Shaq gets 5 million. Raja Bell 1 million would that be enough bring in LBJ.

AnubisADL wrote:Gasol and Randolph also put up great numbers.

Randolph and Lee didnt put up great numbers.

Before Gasol got hurt they were doing very well with 0 bench.

BRIGGS wrote:

iSergio wrote:How are we defending the paint with Chris Bosh/Amare Stoudemire/Carlos Boozer and David Lee? Please explain because I don't get it. Basketball is played at both sides of the court, you know?

Im sorry but if youre the team with chris bosh and david lee--you will be doing the damage on the other teams.

this i agree with. dlee and bosh would be a great pairing.

i don't know what you see with shaun livingston though.

there has to be a better option at guard.

fishmike wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Gasol and Randolph also put up great numbers.

Randolph and Lee didnt put up great numbers.

Lee averaged 10/9 and shot 55% next to Zach that first year and was the 3rd guy behind Zach and Curry. That was a 23 win team. The next year under MDA they played 11 games together and they played quite well and started the season 6-5

Oct stats (2 games)
Lee 14.5 points 11 rebs
Zach 16 points 8 rebs

Nov (9 games)
Lee 14 points 9 rebs
Zach 21.5 points 13 rebs

Knicks were 6-5 and playing pretty good ball. Then we traded Zach and Jamal.

Since then Lee has also become a better player addding much range on his jumper, becoming a highly skilled ball handler and adding post moves as well.

Lee+Zach would be quite good together. The thought is we are trying to get a guy like Lebron or Wade or Amare. A star player. Zach was a good player (despite everyone desire to dump him for a bag of balls and even trade a pick to do it).

Im not paying Lee the type of money he is looking for too put up 15 and 10 and play zero D. Randolph and Gasol work because Gasol can play with his back to the basket. Amare and Bosh rarely post and Boozer is too small. Did I mention Gasol plays defense?

Now I have no problem with keeping Lee at PF but I would look to add a guy like Horford through Free Agency next year.

AnubisADL wrote:

fishmike wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Gasol and Randolph also put up great numbers.

Randolph and Lee didnt put up great numbers.

Lee averaged 10/9 and shot 55% next to Zach that first year and was the 3rd guy behind Zach and Curry. That was a 23 win team. The next year under MDA they played 11 games together and they played quite well and started the season 6-5

Oct stats (2 games)
Lee 14.5 points 11 rebs
Zach 16 points 8 rebs

Nov (9 games)
Lee 14 points 9 rebs
Zach 21.5 points 13 rebs

Knicks were 6-5 and playing pretty good ball. Then we traded Zach and Jamal.

Since then Lee has also become a better player addding much range on his jumper, becoming a highly skilled ball handler and adding post moves as well.

Lee+Zach would be quite good together. The thought is we are trying to get a guy like Lebron or Wade or Amare. A star player. Zach was a good player (despite everyone desire to dump him for a bag of balls and even trade a pick to do it).

Im not paying Lee the type of money he is looking for too put up 15 and 10 and play zero D. Randolph and Gasol work because Gasol can play with his back to the basket. Amare and Bosh rarely post and Boozer is too small. Did I mention Gasol plays defense?

Now I have no problem with keeping Lee at PF but I would look to add a guy like Horford through Free Agency next year.

The only reason we are talking about pairs like Bosh/Lee or Boozer/Lee are because there is a possibility.

The question is how do we improve. A Bosh/Lee Boozer/Lee frontcourt adds size and punch and high % volume scoring and rebounding. That frontline isnt getting pushed around.

Shaun Livinston is a high reward gamble. Another guy I would look at is Mike Miller. He can play PG and make play from the SG/SF position allowing Douglas to start at PG where he is an impact on defense and shooting