bitty41 wrote:Martin,

Illegal Immigrants glow in the dark so it should be fairly easy for law enforcement to discern which individuals are here illegally.

Bitty, that's not always true- I ate a glitter filled burrito after drinking too much at a UK gathering. I was glowing for weeks although I was born in the American state of Maine.

fishmike wrote:^^ haha... its not an Indian reservation, its a wildlife reservation. Google map it "Watchung Reservation, Mountainside, Union, New Jersey 07092"

Its a little slice of what NJ looked like before we evil white men covered it with 7-11s and such. Even the highway is hidden. There are 30 foot walls, and a pair of bridges for the deer and wildlife to cross.

They will have to drag me out of that house. I'm 45 minutes from the city, 5 minutes from normal suburban luxurys and my backyard quiet wilderness

I hear you. From my patio and sun room I watch the swans chase the "illegal" geese out of the lake. Swans kick ass!

The Swans pretty much rule the place. Got a blue heron and some hawks come by. Lots of Cardinals in the back yard. 5 min to my office down town. Best investment I ever made but not planning moving except in a body bag. 13 years left on mortgage.

Maybe I can watch the knicks win in this house during my natural life.

EnySpree wrote:The bill makes me sad as hell.....if you open your eyes the powers that be are slowly trying to take the freedom away from up. I'm not talking just this immigration stuff. One day they doing that...next thing they will be Arresting people for being unemployed or with bad credit...I can only imagine what's next.

All of this might have less to do with economic motives and simple "nativism," than with Republican plans to gum up the upcoming elections by challenging voters, even legit citizens, who are Latino. We are going to be seeing the 21st Century version of poll taxes and literacy tests in the states which can ram through this kind of law, and many legit Latino voters will stay home instead of going through the hassle of a citizenship check after being challenged by diligent Rush Limbaugh clones.

fishmike wrote:Illegal immigration is a problem for that area of the country. It does need to be addressed.

The problem is simple. The illegal immigrants are coming from Mexico. It hurts two groups. Citizens who need those jobs and legal Mexican-Americans who are then profiled or discriminated against because of the illegals.

So how do you fix this? The problem is all the laws are so soft they dont really do anything. Someone basically said this problem isnt going to change until we go find who is illegal and remove them. Now obviously there is NO way possible to do that with blatant profiling.

Now, before you get angry about the powers it gives police, or the unfair ways such laws would be enforced I would ask what would you do? This law was passed to protect legal citizens and businesses that employ those citizens. Thats the whole point. So how do you effectively accomplish that without some sort of blatant racial profiling?

Its 100% the right and purpose of state gov to protect its citizens and businesses by enforcing immigration laws and legal employment.

The question is how?

I lived in a town (Plainfield) that has a massive hispanic population. Some of these guys were the hardest working people I ever met. I swear they are all skinny because they work 3 jobs and dont have time to eat. How is it fair to these guys working so hard to lose jobs they need to illegals who will work for half min wage? How is it fair to the legit business owners who dont want to pay illegals under the table?

Is it this law thats unfair or the problem its trying to address?

If this law sticks it does create a very un-American situation. Its ugly. So what do you do? For those who have objected I agree 100% with your points. They are spot on. We are NOT a "show me your papers" nation. So what do you do?

Fishmike,

I hear what your saying on this issue and I agree that illegal immigrations and the security at borders needs to be a top priority for our government. But this piece of legislation is a piece of **** and just a racial/political ploy. Because if Arizona's representatives were serious about the Immigration issue why haven't any of them introduced legislation for the House and Senate to vote on? A Bill would force debate on a National level introducing a Bill would force Immigration Reform because whether Pres Obama signs a Bill or vetoes it an action would have to be taken. Because what seems to be lost in all of this is that it is the Federal Government's responsibility to protect our borders and maintain our sovereignty. Federal Government sets the standards of whose a citizen and whose not (this portion of the Constitution also is completely lost on the moronic Birthers but I digress). Immigration isn't just a one State's issue or a few states issue it's a National issue so whether we are talking about our stifling the flow of illegal immigrants into our border states, national security, protecting our ports, all these issues are on a National level.

Nalod wrote:
If there is a need here for inexpensive labor why can't some come here with work Visas?

I understand the economics of cheap labor and those willing to do it where legal's won't. Can't we fill that void somehow with work Visas? And they pay taxes!

I love the hypocracy of making gov't bigger to control borders and "papers" when it suits the Right Wing.

But here is where I have a problem: THEY ARE ILLEGAL! They are breaking the law.

Either change the law or make it so we can control it. Illegals need medical care and either enforcement or protection from police. This costs money. Also there is substantial abuse where we force them to work and pay off their "transportation". For years chinease illegals and legals were about owned by their "sponsers" and it took them years to pay off their transportation costs. This is a form of slavery.

Im torn by the ecnomics of supply and demand and filling a need, Illegals not paying taxes or medical, and the rights of abused workers.

The issue of "can I see your papers" seems to be the least of it. Do we really argue the rights of those breaking the law? Is it really abuse to ask "can I see papers"? Its eerie with that Nazi connection hunting down Jews but we are not hunting down mexicans to beat them, interm them, we are only trying to control those here illegal.

Work Visas? Have you ever had any dealings with the INS? They make the DMV look like a model of efficiency. They are breaking the LAW? HELL YES! How about you show the same degree of outrage to the builder who used them to build and sell you your home, the landscaping firm that maintains your lawn and all the processed food companies whose products you buy every day?

If all illegal immigrants were legalized and worked the same jobs they work now their pooled in tax returns wouldn't be a drop in the bucket. How much are you willing to pay for getting your lawn mowed every week? Getting your groceries bagged? How about a 15% hike in food prices for all the processing plants run with illegal immigrants? Will you pay 20% premium on existing home prices when said mexicans start working for legal wages? These people are completely abused by this society they are basically treated like slave labor and they have no way of fighting it. These people pay the price for breaking the law by living in abject terror of having their families torn apart on any given day. But the builder and the landscaper and the food merchants laugh all the way to the bank. People come here illegally because their are people here willing to shamelessly profit from their helpless positions while breaking the law themselves.

The problem with this country is simple: Gullible people keep falling for politicians who intentionally frame the problems incorrectly in populist terms in order to win votes/show up the other party and drive voters into the type of mindless frenzy that results in landslide victories. Now the republican party suddenly cares about protecting the citizen's rights? Hilarious.

Nalod wrote:

I mow my own lawn.

Hey man, wanna know why the economy sucks? Because we are so irresponsible and lazy with our own money. We can't get our lazy arses up and mow are own lawns. It kinda bothers me when I see so many capable people paying for landscapers. Landscapers should be for people who literally can't do it. Otherwise, it's not that hard to mow the lawn.

Allanfan20 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

I mow my own lawn.

Hey man, wanna know why the economy sucks? Because we are so irresponsible and lazy with our own money. We can't get our lazy arses up and mow are own lawns. It kinda bothers me when I see so many capable people paying for landscapers. Landscapers should be for people who literally can't do it. Otherwise, it's not that hard to mow the lawn.

folks consumed more than they could really afford. debt sucks, and folks/gov/companies have too much of it (not just here). people cant pay it, places take write downs. folks dont live within their means, thats more of an issue then being lazy -- perhaps i could rephrase: lazy + wanting it all with no strings attached (earn it/pay for it).

i find it interesting so many nations owe $$$... i would advocate some type of global debt reset at some point, though this rewards folks who cant/wont pay for what they consumed, while those who have not over stepped get nothing.

Nalod wrote:

arkrud wrote:I am legal immigrant and was working to get my refugee status 8 years back in Soviet Union.
Then I came to US and start working and paying taxes after 6 month.
This low may be a shortcut but why people should get illegally things that legal immigrants are had to work for?
I was working with hundreds of people who came to US on working visa and they all paid taxes and obey the low.
Why somebody else should be allowed to snick in for nothing together with crime, drugs, and misery?
I don't care who they are - Mexicans, Albanians, Nigerians, or Vietnamese... everybody should obey to the low.

Good point, thanks for chiming in.

I mow my own lawn but can well afford to have it done, but this is my choice.

What people do with their money is their business so long as they are paying their own way.

Housing expanded our ecnomy and will further be a problem. Incentives are coming off the books this week and tax reform is coming. The tax deduction of interest on a mortgage may get capped. This will hurt the housing market.

This reality will dial back to the way things used to be instead of the McMansions of excess housing. Retiring babyboomer demographic will demand premium housing but in smaller spaces.

You will continue to see more urban spaces in demand and smaller older houses that have character and charm but smaller lots (less yard work) that are closer to amenities. Driving less is the best way to reduce oil consumption.

Nalod sold his two acre house right before the big bubble burst and did the above. My drive to office went to 14 miles to 4. 13 years left on mortgage which means im paying less interest which may get capped soon. Need to work on some solar and passive heating things the next few years to reduce my consumption.

i live in manhattan so not much grass but there is a little piece of 'lawn type looking' grass growing out the crack of one of the sidewalks infront of my building. can you come mow my lawn?