nixluva wrote:

franco12 wrote:Fish - you think MDA would be happy with Ty? I mean, for more than 15 minutes?

I don't- and have no idea what the rumors were of Walsh trying to trade for him.

Chances are we come out of this off season with very little to show for it, and whatever we do add- chances are it will be a stretch to get to 40 wins with whatever talent we do have.

Mediocrity, thy Franchise is the Knicks.

Is this all based on the recent history of the Knicks? Just cuz Isiah and Layden couldn't build teams doesn't mean Walsh will be a fool and put a bad team together. There are many good options short of Lebron or Wade. It isn't all or nothing.

This isn't based on our recent history - its based on the history of the league - players like Camby who you think will be available, instead get $20M+ to play into their forties.

Bosh S&T to LA, Amare to Miami- and what exactly do we have?

If we pull off a Lebron - much like Shaq to Lakers- then it was all worth it. But sorry if I see the chances of that as not good.

Also, recent history, see Detroit last year with their FA signings - teams let players go who they don't want - and usually there are good reasons.

nixluva wrote:

franco12 wrote:Fish - you think MDA would be happy with Ty? I mean, for more than 15 minutes?

I don't- and have no idea what the rumors were of Walsh trying to trade for him.

Chances are we come out of this off season with very little to show for it, and whatever we do add- chances are it will be a stretch to get to 40 wins with whatever talent we do have.

Mediocrity, thy Franchise is the Knicks.

Is this all based on the recent history of the Knicks? Just cuz Isiah and Layden couldn't build teams doesn't mean Walsh will be a fool and put a bad team together. There are many good options short of Lebron or Wade. It isn't all or nothing.

Talk about BUMMER...dude thats terrible talk.

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:Tyrus Thomas measured 6'8 with a 7'3 wingspan and 9 foot standing reach and a 40 inch verticle leap.
By contrast: Al Horford is 9'10 with a 7'0 wingspan and an 8'11 standing reach and a 35 inch verticle leap.

Whats the difference? When Thomas raises his arms he's taller than Horford, a guy most around here would covet.

I'm not riding Tyrus's jock here, but he would represent and athletic shot blocker and help defender you could play next to Lee. He's an explosive athlete to say the least.

Pistons won a title (almost 2) with long athletic skilled players. Their center was 6'8.

My first choice is to put a bigman next to Lee. But if I cant get one at least give me a guy who plays big. Harrington plays like a guard. Bosh for Lee doesnt make us better and I'm not dumping a good player we can sign cheaper here to watch Bosh hurt his vagina year after year.

Luckily Walsh will resign Lee. You can pretty much write that in stone

Fishmike, I'm looking at it from a championship perspective. You aren't looking at it that way. You aren't going to win a championship with a 6'8'' guy and a 6'9'' playing at center and pf. Its not going to happen. All you have to do is look at the Lakers with their two 7' plus players. In the playoffs height is a factor its a need its a must. You sited Ben Wallace who by the way was an excellent defensive player a player of the year. But even he had to play with a Rasheed Wallace who himself is listed as 6'11'' then you have Prince who himself was a 6'9'' player. You have to have a front line with height. The year the Pistons won they had Okur who was a major factor in winning a championship he is 7'. You can keep Lee but get a legit 7'+ Center to play with him. Same with Bosh if he is going to be a KNick then I want a legit center playing with him and same goes for Amare. Even if LeBron or Wade become Knick players I still want a legit Center. All I got to say is enough with the trick line ups. That is why I say its time for the Knicks to consider trading Chandler for a Center especially a Center that is young and who is up and coming with defensive capabilities.

You have a couple of options here. You can hope a star falls into your lap and bails you out. A "champion" type player like Lebron decides he wants to play here.

OR

You can improve your team. How do you know what will win a championship? Way I see it you need size and talent for deep playoff runs. We had one guy play big this year and you want to dump him for a limp wristed Canadian import.

We NEED a bigman next to Lee. We NEED better defense on the perimeter and we NEED someone that can get our offensive players (that are pretty good) some more easy shots.

We improve those things next year we will make the playoffs. When our frontcourt is getting pushed around in the playoffs then you can talk to me about upgrade to championship. Then we can talk about what pieces or players we will need to get to the next level.

Douglas, Lee, Chandler and Gallo are all players will good size and skill. None need to be replaced. All have played and progressed very well. We need a center, we need a center and a playmaker. We get those and we are in the playoffs next year.

If you want a championship you have to be willing to build one. You dont even know what you have and dont have.

fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:This is not NBA 2K10. A David Lee and Amare Stoudemire frontline is an awful idea. No defense by either one and they will just get in each others way offensively. Pick one and you sign him a body guard like Brendan Haywood.

When our guards have played defense Lee's defense miraculously also improved. Amare is another guy that doesnt play with another bigman. Lee doesnt need the ball in his hands to be effective. Thats one of the things that makes him so good. He can pick and roll you to death but also make the good first pass that eventually finds the open man.

We have an offensive coach that likes to play smaller mobile skilled players. He won 60 games with Boris Diaw at center. There is no reason an Amare/Lee frontcourt cant work, especially on an uptempo team. Get a guard that can move the ball and get in the paint and those guys will feast ALL DAY.

Lee and Amare are interchangable in the high post and the low post. On offense they are a perfect fit. Both are great rebounders.

Haywood has potential but there is a Dampier element there also. He seems to play much better in contract years.

The key (like you said) is to get a PG that will be able to make both happy, and unless Lee really does develope a 3pt shot, they will get in each others way ala zach and Curry.

fishmike wrote:VMart, if we cant get Lebron or Wade the #1 guy is Amare. Sign Amare, resign Lee and you have money left for help on wing. I like Mike Miller and Shaun Livingston.

A front court of Amare/Lee/Gallo is 6'10, 6'9 and 6'10. All big. All highly skilled. All high % scorers. Lee and Amare are going to give you 40/20 every night and score at 52-55%. You surround those guys with two guys who can really shoot in Gallo and Douglas and you add a big wing like Mike Miller who can shoot and get guys easy shots with his ball handling.

Is it a championship team? Not likely.. but its a good balanced team that will win a lot of games. They wont get pushed around up front, they can score, they can clean the glass, there is a high BB IQ there and they are deep with Chandler and Walker coming off the bench.

I also like Haywood, Ok4, Dalembert, Kris Kaman... all these guys would be worth aquiring and putting next to our all star.

Fishmike, Having Amare in playing with Lee won't be that great. Here is why I say this. Amare is not a Center. And neither is Lee. Defense needs to emphasized. Even in Suns land they are developing Robin Lopez or Frye to play with Amare. I like Amare would rather have Amare than Bosh and Lee. But I don't just want to get rid of the players that we currently have. I have a reasoning behind the moves. A true center is a must as for Championship. with the plan you are gonna get some great players in for the Knicks that will blend in well with what ever they have. I to don't want to part with certain players especially Chandler. i think he has improved a lot. Probably averages 20ppg next year. If the Knicks can get a center by using their cap space I'm all for it. Keeping Lee fine but got to have a defensive center to go with him.

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Fishmike, I'm looking at it from a championship perspective. You aren't looking at it that way. You aren't going to win a championship with a 6'8'' guy and a 6'9'' playing at center and pf. Its not going to happen. All you have to do is look at the Lakers with their two 7' plus players. In the playoffs height is a factor its a need its a must. You sited Ben Wallace who by the way was an excellent defensive player a player of the year. But even he had to play with a Rasheed Wallace who himself is listed as 6'11'' then you have Prince who himself was a 6'9'' player. You have to have a front line with height. The year the Pistons won they had Okur who was a major factor in winning a championship he is 7'. You can keep Lee but get a legit 7'+ Center to play with him. Same with Bosh if he is going to be a KNick then I want a legit center playing with him and same goes for Amare. Even if LeBron or Wade become Knick players I still want a legit Center. All I got to say is enough with the trick line ups. That is why I say its time for the Knicks to consider trading Chandler for a Center especially a Center that is young and who is up and coming with defensive capabilities.

then as a GM I would fire you right now. Your team cant win 30 games but your going to let your best player go because you dont envision him winning a title. I'm sorry but I cant tell you how ass backwards that sounds, and the Pistons beat a Lakers team LOADED with size. They had Shaq and Malone for god sakes. They beat that team with a 6'9 center (Ben Wallace is probably closer to 6'7) and Sheed playing PF. They won with skill and length... and thats the kind of line up I can see MDA winning with here.

Papabear Says

Come on! The Pistons played tough defense. I mean the kind of defense that D'Antoni dosen't have a clue how to put together. Plus he would feel it would hurt that damn run and gun which will never bring us a championship. Get rid of Mike D!

franco12 wrote:Personally, at the right price, I'd take a gamble on Thomas. I don't think MDA would want him.

Comparison to Darko - a player with length who filled a need and could have contributed, but for whatever reason, only Kurt Rambis was a coach good enough to get production out of him.

And back to the conversation between MDA & Walsh - I find it curious as to when Douglas started to get minutes. Timing seemed to occur when Walsh went on one of our road trips.

MDA has nothing against good players, but some guys don't do the little things it takes to thrive in this system nor to help the team win. Darko can go ahead and put up his lame stats on another team, I could care less. He had a chance here and didn't show an ability to grasp what he needed to do. Lee on the other hand does many of the things needed and thus his stats and Usage are high. MDA is the kind of coach that looks at what you do in practice too, not just games. My bet is that Darko looked bad in practice to such a degree that he didn't trust him in games.

With TD and Hill, MDA stated that they were looking much better in practice and that he intended to get them in games. It's not easy for some players to grasp the nuances of this system. That's why MDA had to dumb it down. We had guys that just didn't get it. You can bet we'll be looking for players that are smart and understand the in's and out's of the game enough to see how they can succeed in this system.

We do this with every coach we get. MDA has built a great rep around the league for a reason. The one or two guys that mouth off about him don't outweigh the many who see him as a top coach. When we get better players to run what he teaches then we can better evaluate him as a coach.