Allanfan20 wrote:

Pharzeone wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:Both Lee and Nate had playoff bonuses on their contracts. Obviously Lee doesn't get that bonus, but it was in the contract.

Every player has playoff bonuses in their contracts. It is CBA standard. Playoff bonuses are not unlikely bonuses and are paid by the league not the team. If you on a playoff roster you get a bonus which increases as the team advances.

Yes, but that's the standard. I think this might have been added in as an unlikely bonus, otherwise it wouldn't have been talked about like the way it was when they signed the contracts.

So they will have a playoff bonus and another unlikely playoff bonus? I think they were referring to their playoff bonus in general.

Pharzeone wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

Pharzeone wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:Both Lee and Nate had playoff bonuses on their contracts. Obviously Lee doesn't get that bonus, but it was in the contract.

Every player has playoff bonuses in their contracts. It is CBA standard. Playoff bonuses are not unlikely bonuses and are paid by the league not the team. If you on a playoff roster you get a bonus which increases as the team advances.

Yes, but that's the standard. I think this might have been added in as an unlikely bonus, otherwise it wouldn't have been talked about like the way it was when they signed the contracts.

So they will have a playoff bonus and another unlikely playoff bonus? I think they were referring to their playoff bonus in general.

I believe so. That's b/c each team recieves a certain amount of money from the league for making it to the playoffs, and more money gets distributed to teams who advance.

What's in Lees and Nates contracts are based on incentives, made specifically for those two, obviously to motivate them to elevate their games so that the Knicks DO make the playoffs. They didn't though.

Here's a link on how the standard bonus system works. It's pretty decent:
http://newsok.com/article/3447843

Oh wait a minute, didn't I outline a similar plan last summer in an effort to keep Lee at an affordable deal?

Except I at least acknowledged that bonuses do count in the 1st year....

See excerpt from my post below:

I was challenged to find a way to keep Lee at $10 million while also keeping our 2010 plans intact. Fortunately, I had 15 minutes to kill today so I took out a spreadsheet and did some 5th grade math. Three beers later, I had at least something that looked like a plan. Now, I should preface this whole thing by saying that resigning Lee to $10 million a year is not my first option. I have simply said in other threads that I'd rather resign him to $10 million a year instead of letting him walk for nothing (and I'm sticking to my guns). Personally, I think the $8-$9 million range is fair for Lee and I'd like to get him back around that price.

I should mention for those of you who read Alan Hahn's "The 2010 Outlook" blog 3 weeks ago that my numbers are more accurate because he was off on the rooks' salaries (although I should say, he did a very good job estimating it all and he even claimed his numbers wouldn't be perfect). With that said, lets take a look at our finances for that pivotal 2010-2011 season.

Eddy Curry - $11,276,863
Jared Jeffries - $6,883,400
Danilo Gallinari - $3,304,560
Jordan Hill - $2,669,520
Wilson Chandler - $2,130,481
Toney Douglas - $1,071,000

Total - $27,335,824

Ok. Now here is the fun part. Projecting the 2010 salary cap isn't exactly easy since we don't know what the league will project as the BRI (Basketball Related Income) for that 2010 season. Many have said that the cap can be as low as $50 million for that season. Personally, I do not think the cap will fall over $7 million in only one season. That is a -15% shift and it would represent the biggest single year change in the cap in awhile (maybe even ever?). Plus, the economist in me sees the economy leveling out a bit and I don't think that BRI consequently, will be as low as advertised. Just to be safe, we'll do the doomsday scenario though and project the 2010 cap at $50 million.Now if the cap is at $50 million, the max for LeBron or Wade for that matter, will be 30% of the cap or $15,000,000 in that 1st season (the only number we care about for now). So add that $15,000,000 to the total from above ($27,335,824 ) and that comes out to $42,335,824. That means as of right now, we have $7,664,176 to spend on Lee in 2010. If we gave Lee a 6 year deal with that money (with 10.5% maximum raises), it would look something like this:

Year 1- $6,900,000
Year 2- $7,624,500
Year 3- $8,349,000
Year 4- $9,073,500
Year 5- $9,798,000
Year 6- $10,522,500

Total - $52,267,500

That comes out to an average of $8.7 million a year (close to that $9 million price point I think Lee is worth). It looks like that pick we bought from LA to draft Douglas could cost us Lee because we could really use that extra $1 million right now. However, if Walsh offers Lee something like this now, I would have to think that Lee seriously considers it given the limited options he has.

Throughout the off-season I've said that I think Lee comes back at $9 million a year with a player option after 2-3 seasons. Now looking at the numbers, it seems like that is the most likely scenario.

That is too easy though, lets try getting creative now. I'm no capologist, but I think the CBA presents opportunities to those that take the time to understand it. I should preface the rest of my post by saying that I don't have the actual CBA in front of me and because of that, I can't tell you that I'm 100% sure this next idea would work (my reference is the Larry Coon FAQ from Realgm).

But anyway, here is one idea.

Performance incentives

These bad boys can be built into contracts and are classified as either "likely to be achieved" or "not likely to be achieved." The incentives are only included in team salary if they are "likely to be achieved" The league office determines what is likely and what is not likely to be achieved. It should also be noted that in the first year of a contract the base salary, likely bonuses and unlikely bonuses must all fit within the salary cap or exception.

Now, I'm not sure if performance incentives must be applied to the whole length of the contract but if they don't have to be, why not put some incentives that Lee can achieve in that 1st year? For example, one incentive can be for Lee to average over 9 rebounds a game (something that is obviously likely to be achieved). If an incentive like that can be built into the contract at 25% of Lee's first season salary (we'll assume its the $6.9 million from above), then guess what, that gives Lee an extra $1.725 million and pushes his total earnings to $54 million, which pushes him to that magical $9 million a year mark.

The only other way we can really get Lee more money is to trade Jeffries or Curry. I do believe Donnie can get this done somehow, especially if there was interest at the deadline in a Nate + Jeffries package. If Jeffries can be traded, we have an extra $6.9 million to play with. What can be done with that? Lets see.

Without Jeffries, we can give Lee more money. Here is what one possible deal would look like:

Year 1: $8,000,000
Year 2: $8,840,000
Year 3: $9,680,000
Year 4: $10,520,000
Year 5: $11,360,000
Year 6: $12,200,000

Total = $60,600,000

This would give Lee his $10 million a year so I'm going to assume he would accept this deal.

Note - As mentioned above, Larry Coon's FAQ was used as a reference here so I claim no credit for any of the CBA rules that I explained here.

Allanfan20 wrote:http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/09/25/david-lee-nate-robinson-have-a-million-reasons-to-make-the-play/

It says specifically that if they make the playoffs, Lee and Robinson BOTH get 1 million each, if they make the playoffs. The reason for this was for them to raise their level of play, making the Knicks look better for free agents this coming Summer.

Whether the OP is true or not, I don't know. However, what I posted is pretty much true. What Nate and Lee got was separate from whatever bonuses the team gets and distributes to the players.

Isn't that the standard playoff bonus for qualifying offers? I thought Gordon got that same amount last year. I'll check but I think that is the case. But yeah, even this is not unlikely bonus either. Since making the playoffs would not be considered unlikely.

Allanfan20 wrote:

Pharzeone wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/09/25/david-lee-nate-robinson-have-a-million-reasons-to-make-the-play/

It says specifically that if they make the playoffs, Lee and Robinson BOTH get 1 million each, if they make the playoffs. The reason for this was for them to raise their level of play, making the Knicks look better for free agents this coming Summer.

Whether the OP is true or not, I don't know. However, what I posted is pretty much true. What Nate and Lee got was separate from whatever bonuses the team gets and distributes to the players.

Isn't that the standard playoff bonus for qualifying offers? I thought Gordon got that same amount last year. I'll check but I think that is the case. But yeah, even this is not unlikely bonus either. Since making the playoffs would not be considered unlikely.

I think what makes it unlikely is if you did it the year before or not. The Knicks didn't make the playoffs last year, so it would be an "Unlikely" bonus, if that holds merit. Same with Randolph. He didn't make the all star team last season, so his would be an unlikely bonus. That's how I am at least interpretting it at least. Whether I'm right or wrong or you're right or wrong remains to be seen I suppose.

Either way, good discussion. I'd look up Gordons contract, but I now have to head to work. Enjoy the weekend.

You too. I am working from home today, so I piss away my day. Thank God for April 16!

Got this from Coon's site. I think it helps.

Performance bonuses (incentives) are allowed, but they are limited to 25% of the value of the contract. This removes yet another loophole that teams tried to use in the past.

Incentives are included in team salary if they are "likely to be achieved." They do not count if they are not likely to be achieved. (Except in the first year of the contract, where the salary, likely bonuses and unlikely bonuses must all fit within the salary cap or exception.) The league office determines what is likely and what is not. Their general guideline is whether the criteria was achieved in the previous year. For example, if a player had seven assists per game the previous season, then an incentive based on seven assists per game would probably be classified as "likely to be achieved," but an incentive based on eight assists per game would probably be classified as "not likely to be achieved."

If a player is traded, his incentives are re-evaluated. For example, a bad team may have a player with an incentive based on the team winning 41 games, that the league classifies as "not likely to be achieved." If that player is traded to a contending team, the league may reclassify the incentive as "likely to be achieved" and include the incentive in the new team's team salary. An interesting case of this happened when Miami tried to sign Juwan Howard. Tim Hardaway had some incentive clauses in his contract that were classified as "not likely to be achieved," and hence wasn't included in the Heat's team salary. However, the league ruled that if Juwan Howard joined the team, then Hardaway's incentives would be "likely to be achieved," and therefore, when computing the amount of cap room Miami had available to offer Howard, they must count Hardaway's incentives as likely.

Allanfan20 wrote:

Pharzeone wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/09/25/david-lee-nate-robinson-have-a-million-reasons-to-make-the-play/

It says specifically that if they make the playoffs, Lee and Robinson BOTH get 1 million each, if they make the playoffs. The reason for this was for them to raise their level of play, making the Knicks look better for free agents this coming Summer.

Whether the OP is true or not, I don't know. However, what I posted is pretty much true. What Nate and Lee got was separate from whatever bonuses the team gets and distributes to the players.

Isn't that the standard playoff bonus for qualifying offers? I thought Gordon got that same amount last year. I'll check but I think that is the case. But yeah, even this is not unlikely bonus either. Since making the playoffs would not be considered unlikely.

I think what makes it unlikely is if you did it the year before or not. The Knicks didn't make the playoffs last year, so it would be an "Unlikely" bonus, if that holds merit. Same with Randolph. He didn't make the all star team last season, so his would be an unlikely bonus. That's how I am at least interpretting it at least. Whether I'm right or wrong or you're right or wrong remains to be seen I suppose.

Either way, good discussion. I'd look up Gordons contract, but I now have to head to work. Enjoy the weekend.

Pretty sure that you are indeed correct. Any1 on the Knicks can receive the unlikely bonus if we make playoffs next year. One thing to make sure tho, the team given bonuses count against the cap while the league given ones don't?