s3231 wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Bitty, what is the expectation? Championship caliber next year?

Or progress meaured not by roster inclusions but wins and loses.

If we make the playoffs next year is that enough success or still a failure?

Not hating, just wondering what expectations are?

Playoffs next year is a good start, but it depends on how it's accomplished.

If we do it while still staying young and keeping the flexibility to add more pieces to get to that next level, then that would be acceptable in my mind.

If we do it by spending all of our money on guys like Boozer, Camby, etc., then we are in trouble because we will be handicapped and won't have much of a ceiling.

Of course, you can also walk that fine line by adding one young guy and one veteran while keeping the flexibility to add one more major piece to become a contender. That would probably be acceptable too.

I guess we share the "no starphuching no more!" creed!

I don't want Camby here. He is 37 and gotta break down one of these days. Amare and Booze are contract year whores who turn it on when they need to. Nice players. Same with Elton Brand.

Gotta say no to Wade unless we bring him in with support. He is going to wear down.

bitty41 wrote:

subzero0 wrote:Anybody with a brain knows Lebron isn't going to sign with New York. He doesn't want to be looked at as a villain, which is how he would be viewed because if it did happen everyone will know that he left just for the money. It really is as simple as that.

This plan was destined to fail. Why? Because you don't start the build of the foundation of a championship team with free agency, you start with the draft. Just ask the Los Angeles Lakers who scored Kobe from the draft (albeit a trade, but a draft addition nonetheless) or ask the Celtics, who picked Paul Pierce from the draft. If you want to spin your wheels and become a perennial playoff loser then yes, the Knicks are heading in the right direction. If the Knicks want to become a dynasty then their approach is all wrong. But I dont expect Mike D'Antoni (formerly of the perennial playoff loser Phoenix Suns) and Walsh (formerly of the perennial playoff loser Pacers) to understand this fact.

Go to the draft and get a championship level talent. If you dont score one in that particular year, bide your time and wait for the next year. After you have your young championship level player go to free agency and add to your team. Everyone knows this, I am not sure why this is such a mystery to some people. But as I said, I am not expecting Walsh or D'Antoni to know this.

Yea the Knicks think they have figured out a way to cheat the system. They think by clearing cap space and being in NYC that the natural progression of things is a Championship caliber squad. This is all a bunch of bs being sold by Knick's ownership/management to keep the seats filled. D'Antoni has underachieved and Walsh has done a subpar job on his end but now we are suppose to believe that in the span of one summer the Knick's fortune will just change.

Whats your big bright idea, draft a franchise player...buy a frachise player...trade for a frachise player..

Nalod wrote:

subzero0 wrote:Anybody with a brain knows Lebron isn't going to sign with New York. He doesn't want to be looked at as a villain, which is how he would be viewed because if it did happen everyone will know that he left just for the money. It really is as simple as that.

This plan was destined to fail. Why? Because you don't start the build of the foundation of a championship team with free agency, you start with the draft. Just ask the Los Angeles Lakers who scored Kobe from the draft (albeit a trade, but a draft addition nonetheless) or ask the Celtics, who picked Paul Pierce from the draft. If you want to spin your wheels and become a perennial playoff loser then yes, the Knicks are heading in the right direction. If the Knicks want to become a dynasty then their approach is all wrong. But I dont expect Mike D'Antoni (formerly of the perennial playoff loser Phoenix Suns) and Walsh (formerly of the perennial playoff loser Pacers) to understand this fact.

Go to the draft and get a championship level talent. If you dont score one in that particular year, bide your time and wait for the next year. After you have your young championship level player go to free agency and add to your team. Everyone knows this, I am not sure why this is such a mystery to some people. But as I said, I am not expecting Walsh or D'Antoni to know this.

Could Kobe have won without Free Agent Signing Shaq?

Celts bonehead max contract tandem of Pierce and Antoine never got it done. Douchebag Pierce needed a bigger douchbag KG and the steady non douchebag Ray Ray to win. Pierce was never traded cuz his contract and toxic nature was too much to offset his extreme talent.

But your right about the draft but the team had to commit to hitting a low and getting a top 3 pick and other assets thru the draft which Isiah did not do.

And while we hae sucked the last few years, trading picks as he did prevented this. This year we could have gone with youth from day one and had a very high pick. That option was determined years ago.

Knick fans don't do traditional rebuilds.

Remember how Boston got Bird? As a 5 year college player they were able to draft him a year before and had his rights. They took him at the 6th pick in 1978. The game with Magic Johnson was 1979:

1978 Round 1
# Team Name College/HS/Country
1 POR Mychal Thompson Minnesota
2 KCK Phil Ford North Carolina
3 IND Rick Robey Kentucky
4 NYK Micheal Richardson Montana
5 GSW Purvis Short Jackson State
6 BOS Larry Bird Indiana State
7 POR Ron Brewer Arkansas
8 BOS Freeman Williams Portland State
9 CHI Reggie Theus Nevada-Las Vegas
10 ATL Butch Lee Marquette
11 NOJ James Hardy San Francisco
12 MIL George Johnson St. John's
13 NJN Winford Boynes San Francisco
14 WA1 Roger Phegley Bradley
15 CLE Mike Mitchell Auburn
16 ATL Jack Givens Kentucky
17 DEN Rod Griffin Wake Forest
18 WA1 Dave Corzine DePaul
19 PHO Marty Byrnes Syracuse
20 SAS Frank Sanders Southern
21 DEN Mike Evans Kansas State
22 GSW Ray Townsend UCLA

Based on the 1979 season is there anyone who would have taken Mychal Thopson over Bird? 1979 was just one of those POrtland bad luck drafting of a center. Look at this:

1972 Round 1
# Team Name College/HS/Country
1 POR LaRue Martin Loyola (IL)
2 BUF Bob McAdoo North Carolina
3 CLE Dwight Davis Houston
4 PHO Corky Calhoun Pennsylvania
5 PHI Fred Boyd Oregon State
6 MIL Russell Lee Marshall
7 SEA Bud Stallworth Kansas
8 NYK Tom Riker South Carolina
9 DET Bob Nash Hawaii
10 BOS Paul Westphal Southern California
11 CHI Ralph Simpson Michigan State
12 MIL Julius Erving Massachusetts
13 LAL Travis Grant Kentucky State
Round 2
# Team Name College/HS/Country
1 POR Bob Davis Weber State
2 BUF Harold Fox Jacksonville
3 LAL Jim Price Louisville
4 DET Chris Ford Villanova
5 SEA Joby Wright Indiana
6 CIN Sam Sibert Kentucky State
7 HOU John Gianelli Pacific
8 ATL Steve Bracey Tulsa
9 LAL Paul Stovall Arizona State
10 SEA Brian Taylor Princeton
11 CLE Steve Hawes Washington
12 BAL Tom Patterson Ouachita Baptist
13 POR Dave Twardzik Old Dominion
14 BOS Dennis Wuycik North Carolina
15 CIN Mike Ratliff Eau Claire State
16 MIL Chuck Terry Long Beach State
17 POR Ollie Johnson Temple

Some of these guys did well in the ABA. That 12th pick in the first round? Doc took the Money from the ABA. Larue played 4 seasons and avg. 5 pts a game.

Look at # 9 pick Bob Nash. Imagine its 1972 and your balling in Hawaii. Then you get drafted (remember its 1972) to play in Detroit? THat hadda hurt!

1984 Round 1
# Team Name College/HS/Country
1 HOU Akeem Olajuwon Houston
2 POR Sam Bowie Kentucky
3 CHI Michael Jordan North Carolina
4 DAL Sam Perkins North Carolina
5 PHI Charles Barkley Auburn
6 WA1 Mel Turpin Kentucky
7 SAS Alvin Robertson Arkansas
8 LAC Lancaster Gordon Louisville
9 KCK Otis Thorpe Providence
10 PHI Leon Wood Cal State-Fullerton
11 ATL Kevin Willis Michigan State
12 CLE Tim McCormick Michigan
13 PHO Jay Humphries Colorado
14 LAC Michael Cage San Diego State
15 DAL Terence Stansbury Temple
16 UTA John Stockton Gonzaga
17 NJN Jeff Turner Vanderbilt
18 IND Vern Fleming Georgia
19 POR Bernard Thompson Fresno State
20 DET Tony Campbell Ohio State
21 MIL Kenny Fields UCLA
22 PHI Tom Sewell Lamar
23 LAL Earl Jones District of Columbia
24 BOS Michael Young Houston

Ouch. 3 HOF's in the first 5 picks. They had Clyde Drexler a the time. Who knew Jordan would be Mike?

2007Round 1
# Team Name College/HS/Country
1 POR Greg Oden Ohio State University
2 SEA Kevin Durant University of Texas
3 ATL Al Horford University of Florida
4 MEM Mike Conley Ohio State University
5 BOS Jeff Green Georgetown University
6 MIL Yi Jianlian China
7 MIN Corey Brewer University of Florida
8 CHR Brandan Wright University of North Carolina
9 CHI Joakim Noah University of Florida
10 SAC Spencer Hawes University of Washington
11 ATL Acie Law Texas A&M University
12 PHI Thaddeus Young Georgia Tech University
13 NOO Julian Wright University of Kansas
14 LAC Al Thornton Florida State University
15 DET Rodney Stuckey Eastern Washington University
16 WAS Nick Young University of Southern California
17 NJN Sean Williams Boston College
18 GSW Marco Belinelli Italy
19 LAL Javaris Crittenton Georgia Institute of Technology
20 MIA Jason Smith Colorado State University
21 PHI Daequan Cook Ohio State University
22 CHR Jared Dudley Boston College
23 NYK Wilson Chandler DePaul University
24 PHO Rudy Fernandez Spain
25 UTA Morris Almond Rice University
26 HOU Aaron Brooks University of Oregon
27 DET Arron Afflato UCLA
28 SAS Tiago Splitter Brazil
29 PHO Alando Tucker University of Wisconsin
30 PHI Petteri Koponen Finland

Jury is out on Oden still but whats obvious is obvious.

Notice #28 for SAS? They might sign him this summer.

Notice the lack of knick picks over the years?

Not sure what your logic is here? You seem to be agreeing with me dude. Are you sure you read my whole post?

The big elephant in the room -- LeBron James -- was not mentioned by name. But when asked if he worries about disappointing the fans if they don't land the big fish, Walsh said, "What happens, are people going to come at me with guns or something if it doesn’t work. If you worry about that when you come to New York, you've come to the wrong place.''

not guns Donnie... pitchforks, tar, feathers & maybe a little rope, but you won't have to worry about guns... Knick fans aren't that overreactive.

Anyone think Artest would still be a knick if we took him over "right said Fred" Weis?

if we don't land superstars this summer what was the point in trading away future draft picks? i'd rather suck for the next 2 years while owning our picks than to struggle to get into the playoffs with a roster that really has no realistic chance of winning any championships down the road... if we gave up all those assets just so we can reverse track & trade for picks using our cap space then what the hell was the point of it all to begin with? how is that an acceptable outcome this summer to you? that's some weird reverse reasoning at work there that i can't get on board with... if we wanted to build up through the draft then the right thing to do is to hold onto your draft picks... that's pretty basic... DW obviously chose to go in another direction... that choice will determine his legacy in NY... if he lands a top notch guy this summer then it would have all been worth it... if not, then you have to say he failed with this whole grand plan to clear up cap for the summer of 2010... the cap space affords him options this summer to pursue trades & free agent acquisitions, but if he doesn't make use of that to bring in top talent then what exactly has he succeeded in doing? another 2 years of rebuilding is not what he signed up the entire Knicks' fan base on when he took this job 2 years ago... that time has passed... he's had his grace period to dump contracts & set himself up for some bigtime acquisitions... the preparation work is done, but he still needs to close the deal.