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Sporting News: Jordan Hill has a Future in Houston
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sidsanders
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4/11/2010  5:18 PM
Childs2Dudley wrote:A Jordan Hill thread? Cosmic hasn't posted in here yet.

You know what that means...

<cosmicbatsignal/>

GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
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Paladin55
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4/11/2010  5:38 PM
Childs2Dudley wrote:A Jordan Hill thread? Cosmic hasn't posted in here yet.

You know what that means...

I was thinking the same thing, without the animated GIF in mind.

Should be about 2 years before people really go back and forth on this issue- Hill will have 3 years under his belt, and we will pretty much know where he will end up as a player, the 2010 and 2011 FA offerings will be signed up, and we will have a better idea of what we could have had in the 2 drafts affected by the Hill trade.

Should be some interesting "conversations" going on.

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scoshin
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4/11/2010  6:05 PM
For me, it's not even Hill that made me vomit over the trade.

It was the two lotto picks we're sacrificing on the small chance that we land LeBron/Wade this summer. Anyone who claims we gained flexibility with the cap space isn't reading the fine print. We're now pressured to sign someone this offseason because of the Hill/Jeffries trade, because we don't have our picks to fall back on. At least before the Hill trade, if we struck out on LeBron/Wade, we had the flexibility to use our cap space to trade for youth/picks, like OKC have done for the past 3 years, and build through the draft. Then in 2011 with Jeffries/Curry off the books, we'd be players in 2011 FA again, with even more youth, our own draft pick, and a better pitch to the likes of Melo. If Melo didn't work out, we could swing a trade with NOH for Chris Paul/Okafor and instant cap-relief.

The Hill/Jeffries trade made this summer LeBron/Wade or bust, and with each news report about LeBron leaning toward staying, it's looking more and more like a bust.

nixluva
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4/11/2010  6:57 PM
It's not about the risk. It's about the reward. You take the risk in order to put yourself in position to be rewarded with a greater prize. If we keep Hill, chances are we are stuck with Jared this summer and that limits our flexibility. Aside from the obvious option of going after two Max FA's, now we can make the kind of deals that teams usually don't have the space to make. This brings in deals where we can take on salary in order to get a guy we really want. I understand both sides of the argument, but Walsh said he thought about it and he felt he could get more value out of sending Hill away than keeping him. This is not about one player but about team building. They want to be able to build a better team from a structural standpoint and they didn't feel as confident that Hill was going to eventually get to the level they wanted. By the way that is still very much in question despite him looking a bit better with consistent minutes.

So what you have is Jared who has limited value, Hill still just a prospect and a big ?, 2012 Pick simply a ?, if you're looking to build a contending team that 2012 pick should be meaningless. To me it's not a big deal. Too much is being made of this deal. It's not the backbreaking move that some would make it seem to be. We're not talking proven talent, but POTENTIAL, which is far from saying you traded away the franchise. We still have the value of that player and pick in the form of 10 mil in cap space. Until we use it there's no way to judge if you got good value for that money or not. As others have said, we have to wait in order to make that determination.

knicks1248
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4/11/2010  7:13 PM
CrushAlot wrote:Jordan Hill(notes) has a future in Houston. In making the deal that sent Tracy McGrady(notes) to New York, the Rockets insisted that rookie Jordan Hill be part of the package, to the point that not including Hill would have scuttled the deal. Hill is rewarding Houston’s persistence. After spending his brief tenure in New York mostly relegated to the bench — he averaged just 4.0 points and 2.5 rebounds in 10.5 minutes with the Knicks — Hill has shown off his potential with the Rockets. In Houston’s last 15 games, he is averaging 8.3 points and 5.5 rebounds. A solid finish to the season could ensure Hill a significant role next year.


We just want to see him stay aggressive,” coach Rick Adelman told Sporting News. “He has to be aggressive and go all out all the time. Every rebound, he has to act like it is his. He has pretty much played hard when we have played him, he has defended. We just want to see him show some progression where, the work ethic, every possession, don’t take any possessions off, keep playing. He’s got some skills. He is the only big guy we have who can go up in the air over people.”

Those comments pretty much sums up Hills worth...he has the potential to be a good player probably in the next 4 years. The kids IQ is not that high and he really looks lost at times and at this point is a project. I'm sure he will be traded again in the next year or 2. The Question shouldn't be about why they traded him, but more about why did they draft him that high..

ES
scoshin
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4/11/2010  7:21 PM
It's not about the risk. It's about the reward. You take the risk in order to put yourself in position to be rewarded with a greater prize. If we keep Hill, chances are we are stuck with Jared this summer and that limits our flexibility. Aside from the obvious option of going after two Max FA's, now we can make the kind of deals that teams usually don't have the space to make

That's just spin. People tend to forget we already had $23M in cap space before the Jeffries trade, so we already had the flexibility to make deals like trading cap relief for picks/youth. The only reason we made the trade was for that second max slot, which improves our chances of getting that first big max, by giving a better recruitment pitch. If it works out and we get LeBron or Wade to jump ship, then of course it was worth the risk, and I would do a complete 180 and commend Walsh for taking the gamble. But if he doesn't get LeBron or Wade, let's not try to spin the trade as if it still somehow benefits us. It doesn't, cause we'd have been better off just sitting on Jeffries contract and letting it expire in 2011, while keeping Hill, our 2011 and 2012 pick.

alau53
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4/11/2010  7:32 PM
it all goes back to donnie walsh at the end of his career is making deals to help his agent friend arn tellem who represents both tmac and joe johnson..this deal helped the agent and the rockets and hurt the knicks..knicks will offer johnson big money this off season which to me is a big waste..walsh is more interested in keeping his friendships intact than helping the knicks..like dave checketts did when he traded ewing to keep a strong relationship with agent david falk..checketts knew he was leaving knicks so didnt care about taking on massive bad contracts
Cosmic
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4/11/2010  7:33 PM
scoshin wrote:
It's not about the risk. It's about the reward. You take the risk in order to put yourself in position to be rewarded with a greater prize. If we keep Hill, chances are we are stuck with Jared this summer and that limits our flexibility. Aside from the obvious option of going after two Max FA's, now we can make the kind of deals that teams usually don't have the space to make


That's just spin. People tend to forget we already had $23M in cap space before the Jeffries trade
, so we already had the flexibility to make deals like trading cap relief for picks/youth.

Which meant we couldn't even sign a max and keep Lee if it comes to that.

So, that would be a failure. We needed the extra 10M cap space to make this thing work.

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Pharzeone
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4/11/2010  7:35 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/11/2010  7:36 PM
Cosmic wrote:
scoshin wrote:
It's not about the risk. It's about the reward. You take the risk in order to put yourself in position to be rewarded with a greater prize. If we keep Hill, chances are we are stuck with Jared this summer and that limits our flexibility. Aside from the obvious option of going after two Max FA's, now we can make the kind of deals that teams usually don't have the space to make


That's just spin. People tend to forget we already had $23M in cap space before the Jeffries trade
, so we already had the flexibility to make deals like trading cap relief for picks/youth.

Which meant we couldn't even sign a max and keep Lee if it comes to that.

So, that would be a failure. We needed the extra 10M cap space to make this thing work.

I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Cosmic
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4/11/2010  7:36 PM
sidsanders wrote:
Childs2Dudley wrote:A Jordan Hill thread? Cosmic hasn't posted in here yet.

You know what that means...

<cosmicbatsignal/>

Jordan Hill. LOL.


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TMS
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4/11/2010  8:04 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:Jordan Hill(notes) has a future in Houston. In making the deal that sent Tracy McGrady(notes) to New York, the Rockets insisted that rookie Jordan Hill be part of the package, to the point that not including Hill would have scuttled the deal. Hill is rewarding Houston’s persistence. After spending his brief tenure in New York mostly relegated to the bench — he averaged just 4.0 points and 2.5 rebounds in 10.5 minutes with the Knicks — Hill has shown off his potential with the Rockets. In Houston’s last 15 games, he is averaging 8.3 points and 5.5 rebounds. A solid finish to the season could ensure Hill a significant role next year.


We just want to see him stay aggressive,” coach Rick Adelman told Sporting News. “He has to be aggressive and go all out all the time. Every rebound, he has to act like it is his. He has pretty much played hard when we have played him, he has defended. We just want to see him show some progression where, the work ethic, every possession, don’t take any possessions off, keep playing. He’s got some skills. He is the only big guy we have who can go up in the air over people.”

Those comments pretty much sums up Hills worth...he has the potential to be a good player probably in the next 4 years. The kids IQ is not that high and he really looks lost at times and at this point is a project. I'm sure he will be traded again in the next year or 2. The Question shouldn't be about why they traded him, but more about why did they draft him that high..

i think people are getting way too caught up in the complaints about losing Jordan Hill & taking it to mean we all believe he would have been the key to a Knicks dynasty... that's not what people are saying at all... the problem people have is how that #8 pick was mismanaged from the get go... whether you liked Jordan Hill or not as a prospect, the fact of the matter is we did not get good value out of that important resource last summer... we picked a guy that got no run in NY & he got subsequently jettisoned in a cap dump & unloaded 2 potential lottery picks along with him... that's not good management of assets any way you want to slice it, not unless you're actually trading those assets to get the player you have your sights set on & he is signed, sealed & delivered... to go into this summer not even knowing what's going to happen is a lot for Knick fans to swallow & just leave up to fate... so again, if this makes sense at all it must be that Donnie has a guarantee that the player he wants is coming here, otherwise it was a bad gamble.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
buddapaw
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4/11/2010  8:52 PM
I'm still waiting on the PG, lord knows it would be in our best interest to start TD for the rest of the season. But we are the Knicks, where Dubumblefuk runs the show

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yrubram
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4/11/2010  11:21 PM
dwalsh rilly blue this won
Cosmic
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4/12/2010  7:50 AM
yrubram wrote:dwalsh rilly blue this won

Wow.

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Cosmic
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4/16/2010  10:59 AM
*pokes bees nest*

So, after all the melt downs after trading this scrub why is this thread so quiet? I mean when he scored 15 points there was more activity than when our own Gallo was putting up 22/6 during the second half of March.

Oh, wait, now I see why it's quiet: Since the superstar, the future hall of fame Knicks center, dropped his career breakout games:

pts/bds
0/3
8/4
2/9
4/3
3/1



Earl Butterfingers Barron

pts/bds
15/9
8/12
13/12
8/13
11/7

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nyk4ever
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4/16/2010  11:01 AM
cosmic you're playin with fire bro
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kam77
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4/16/2010  12:06 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/16/2010  12:06 PM
Cosmic, was it you who did the mock "Jesus Christ: Superstar" Movie Poster with Jordan Hill? If so, post it again that was hilarious.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
earthmansurfer
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4/16/2010  1:10 PM
I didn't see him play in those 5 games but he only got 11 minutes per game. He picked up some quick fouls, but considering he was playing pretty well with minutes and then since he only played 11 minutes a game, I wouldn't read so much into the drop. Anyone see him play those games?
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scoshin
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4/16/2010  7:45 PM
Which meant we couldn't even sign a max and keep Lee if it comes to that.
So, that would be a failure. We needed the extra 10M cap space to make this thing work.

We only needed 3.5M more cap space to cover David Lee's cap hold + 1 max contract. Which could've easily been had in the summer by either buying out Curry's contract and/or trading Jordan Hill to some team under the cap like OKC. I thought a cap guru like you, Cosmic, would see we didn't need to trade Jeffries just to have room for David Lee. Hell, with reports that the cap will be higher than anticipated, we would've definitely had room for Lee + a max in the summer, without the T-Mac trade.

And before Cosmic retorts with more of Jordan Hill's abyssmal stats, I'll just reiterate that I don't care about Jordan Hill. I'm more pissed at not owning our lottery pick for yet another two years.

Cosmic
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4/16/2010  8:55 PM
Without dumping the extra 10M we couldn't retain Lee (at the price he wants and will command) and add a max player and honor the other cap holds. Just not possible.

Without the extra cap space I doubt a max FA wanted to take a pay cut and join the roster we had while keeping Lee at his price. Even worse I doubt a max FA joins this roster and then gets told there is no Lee and we could only maybe re-sign Al Harrington.

We'd be a bare bones roster with Lee (no Duhon, Harrington) - and pray a max FA saw this as a great opportunity. The player wouldn't have.

We had to do the trade. There simply was not enough flexibility without it.

If we do well this summer then the picks are a wash. If we don't well then it will be a hindsight issue.

Hill, you're right, who cares, it was a terrible pick on a team already loaded with talented forwards, and the guy has shown absolutely nothing so far. Houston BTW is going to keep Scola and are looking at other F/C's to bring in this summer. Their latest rumor has them looking at Brad Miller. They too are apparently finding out that Hill isn't anyone's answer anytime soon to roster problems and maybe never.


================================
...and for KAM:

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Sporting News: Jordan Hill has a Future in Houston

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