TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:the concept is simple... there is no way you can GUARANTEE that any one you draft after the top 5 in the next 2 drafts won't be as good as any FA you can sign this summer... it's foolishness to assume as much UNLESS LIKE I ALREADY SAID you have a guarantee of who you're going to sign this summer... without that guarantee of who we're going to sign you're comparing a random unknown with another random unknown.

you make it sound like guys like David Lee are once in a generation type finds that come out late in the draft... we're talking about TOP 6 OR LATER here, u telling me it's rare to get great players in that range in the draft? stop talkin' foolishness.

The point isn't if there are diamonds later in the draft every year. The thing is how to you come close to being sure to find someone GOOD-GREAT. There are so many draft flops each year, so why would you want to put yourself in that position verses going after known productive players. It's much harder to quantify who you're going to get. Say you need a PF? Can you guarantee that the diamond in this draft will even be a PF? We have specific targets and we have the chance to go after them and convince them to come here. I like that better than just waiting and hoping on a non top 5 draft pick which may or may not pan out.

unless u already know who we're going to sign this summer, you have no way of making that kind of statement with any credibility... this is the point... unless DW already has a guarantee of the player he's going to sign this summer, he has no way of saying this mystery FA we sign this summer will be better than anyone we could possibly take with a #6 or later lottery pick... that's nonsense... do u know who we're going to sign this summer? cuz i don't... doesn't even matter if u prefer to go with the free agent route over the draft, that's not even the issue.

So essentially what your saying is, were more likely to be in the draft the next 2 season as oppose to making the playoffs. If thats the case DW and MDA would be fired anyway, that would be 4 wasted years and woop dee doo, we have a 7th or 8th pick to fall back on. I guess that would make you happy. We would draft a couple of prospects and develope them for another 4 years with another new regime, and we'll just continue to chase our tails like a dog.

knicks1248 wrote:So essentially what your saying is, were more likely to be in the draft the next 2 season as oppose to making the playoffs. If thats the case DW and MDA would be fired anyway, that would be 4 wasted years and woop dee doo, we have a 7th or 8th pick to fall back on. I guess that would make you happy. We would draft a couple of prospects and develope them for another 4 years with another new regime, and we'll just continue to chase our tails like a dog.

no, that's not what i'm saying... read the posts.

knicks1248 wrote:Why don't you make list of the flops, and there still only a hand full of all stars on that list in you went back 10 years

how about you do your own leg work? someone suggested that getting good talent below #6 in the draft was rare... i posted a list of players that clearly shows that's not the case... eveyrone knows the draft is a crap shoot but so is free agency, unless like i already said, DW has a guarantee in place of the guys he's going to sign this summer.

knicks1248 wrote:Are you considering the 3 to 4 years it will take to develope these rooks, Add that to fact that we have been lottery bound 9 of the last 8 years, take that stratergy to the fans and ask them to be patient until our pick develope.

As solid as Galllo lee, nate, TD, ect are, we still suck, so how is getting draft picks a better road to take.
Exactly how many top tier FA have we sign in the last 16 years ( allan and LJ) how did that turn out.

i hear all this talk about how Knick fans aren't willing to wait for their draft picks to develop, but if that's the case why have we held onto guys like David Lee & Gallinari the past few years? why not trade them too if Knick fans aren't willing to be patient? were Knick fans willing to be patient when we drafted Patrick Ewing? yes, there is your group of Knick fans like the ones on this forum who can't even wait a full season before pronouncing a prospect a bust, but there are plenty others like the ones who preached patience with Lee, Wilson, Gallo & Jordan Hill in recent years that are perfectly willing to build up a core using the draft like most successful teams in the NBA do.

just how much success have we achieved by trading away draft picks for starphuch talent in the past? Stephon Marbury, Jalen Rose, Steve Francis, Zach Randolph, Tracy McGrady... the list goes on & on... aside from the top 2 or 3 names in this summer's free agency class, just how does any of the other names not equate to starphuch acquisitions on that level? do u really think we're going to build a champion if we sign David Leem or Carlos Boozer & Joe Johnson to the max? i don't.

anyway this isn't even a question of what i prefer or not... someone raised DW's comments about us not being able to draft anyone #6 or lower that will be better than the players we'll be signing in free agency... again, unless he has a guarantee of who he'll be signing, how do u qualify a statement like that? you're comparing an unknown hypothetical to another unknown hypothetical... what if we miss out on all the top names & end up with David Lee & a buncha supplementary role players this summer? are we a much better team than we are right now?

TMS wrote:the Celtics got KG & Ray Allen by trading young talent & picks they amassed in the draft... they got Pierce through the draft as well... they utilized the draft to amass assets & built that team from the ground up that way... they didn't dump picks to unload cap space so they could try & sign 2 max FA's that summer like we're trying to do.

So it's not possible for DW to use a TD, Chan or even Gallo to do the same kind of thing? There's so much room under the cap that we can take back more than we give and in certain cases like say a deal for CP3 it would make sense. We can give them some talent and cap relief. No we can't give a pick, but don't underestimate the freedom a team gains from cap relief. They could go into the FA market themselves to improve their team. I'm not saying this is what DW will do, but it's a real option.

Also in the trades who made out better the TWolves or the Celts. That is the thing that needs to be the focus. We used a young talent and pick to get the cap space to add better talent. We want to be the Celts. We're the buyers in this summer market. We have players that we got thru the draft as part of our core. Now we want to add our Shaq or KG to make this team a winner. We might already have our Pierce in Gallo, but he hasn't been playing long enough to know for sure yet. Still Gallo may just get there. I like the early signs.

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:the Celtics got KG & Ray Allen by trading young talent & picks they amassed in the draft... they got Pierce through the draft as well... they utilized the draft to amass assets & built that team from the ground up that way... they didn't dump picks to unload cap space so they could try & sign 2 max FA's that summer like we're trying to do.

So it's not possible for DW to use a TD, Chan or even Gallo to do the same kind of thing? There's so much room under the cap that we can take back more than we give and in certain cases like say a deal for CP3 it would make sense. We can give them some talent and cap relief. No we can't give a pick, but don't underestimate the freedom a team gains from cap relief. They could go into the FA market themselves to improve their team. I'm not saying this is what DW will do, but it's a real option.

Also in the trades who made out better the TWolves or the Celts. That is the thing that needs to be the focus. We used a young talent and pick to get the cap space to add better talent. We want to be the Celts. We're the buyers in this summer market. We have players that we got thru the draft as part of our core. Now we want to add our Shaq or KG to make this team a winner. We might already have our Pierce in Gallo, but he hasn't been playing long enough to know for sure yet. Still Gallo may just get there. I like the early signs.

do u remember the package of assets the Celtics gave away to bring KG & Ray Allen to Boston? it equated to a lot more than a package of Chan, TD & Gallo, i'll tell u that much... what kind of talent do u think can realistically get with the package of assets we have to offer in a sign & trade? just curious.

if the goal is to be the Celtics, then DW took the wrong path to try & emulate what they did... i like what i see in Gallo too but if the plan is to hold onto him & still bring in key pieces to form a championship nucleus, you're pretty much taking the top asset you have to offer in any trades off the table... unless u think Wilson Chandler & TD are a good enough package to land us a superstar talent in a trade.

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:the Celtics got KG & Ray Allen by trading young talent & picks they amassed in the draft... they got Pierce through the draft as well... they utilized the draft to amass assets & built that team from the ground up that way... they didn't dump picks to unload cap space so they could try & sign 2 max FA's that summer like we're trying to do.

So it's not possible for DW to use a TD, Chan or even Gallo to do the same kind of thing? There's so much room under the cap that we can take back more than we give and in certain cases like say a deal for CP3 it would make sense. We can give them some talent and cap relief. No we can't give a pick, but don't underestimate the freedom a team gains from cap relief. They could go into the FA market themselves to improve their team. I'm not saying this is what DW will do, but it's a real option.

Also in the trades who made out better the TWolves or the Celts. That is the thing that needs to be the focus. We used a young talent and pick to get the cap space to add better talent. We want to be the Celts. We're the buyers in this summer market. We have players that we got thru the draft as part of our core. Now we want to add our Shaq or KG to make this team a winner. We might already have our Pierce in Gallo, but he hasn't been playing long enough to know for sure yet. Still Gallo may just get there. I like the early signs.

do u remember the package of assets the Celtics gave away to bring KG & Ray Allen to Boston? it equated to a lot more than a package of Chan, TD & Gallo, i'll tell u that much... what kind of talent do u think can realistically get with the package of assets we have to offer in a sign & trade? just curious.

if the goal is to be the Celtics, then DW took the wrong path to try & emulate what they did... i like what i see in Gallo too but if the plan is to hold onto him & still bring in key pieces to form a championship nucleus, you're pretty much taking the top asset you have to offer in any trades off the table... unless u think Wilson Chandler & TD are a good enough package to land us a superstar talent in a trade.

so if it's so impossible for the knicks to add any good players this summer - what do you think they're going to do?