nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Pharzeone wrote:but...but I was told D'Antoni was the reason why he was good.

Have you ever wondered why Nash pleaded to have the team return to running MDA's system? It fits him the best and is the reason he reached MVP levels. You can talk crap all day about MDA's impact but it's a fact that MDA showed him how to play in this particular way and maximize his talent. He was always a very good PG which is why PHX wanted him but it was MDA who showed him just how good he could really be. Funny how players that played for MDA give him credit for helping them if they were smart enough to listen.

D'Antoni never had a Suns roster with this much depth, but Gentry's willingness to work in Goran Dragic, Jared Dudley and Louis Amundson last season fostered it. He made Robin Lopez a starting center at age 21, leading to the current 19-5 run.

When Porter was hired as the anti-D'Antoni, the Suns wanted an image change but not the drastic one that caused Porter to lose his players. Gentry has pulled off what Porter tried - using more bench, emphasizing defense and accepting a slower pace with more post-ups.

He communicates with players better, approaching them when he knows they are angry rather than avoiding confrontation. He even text-messages Amar'e Stoudemire.

Gentry lauds D'Antoni's offense but did alter it. The Suns run traditional sets when Nash is out and even with him at times. There is a "continuity" offense with the ball out of Nash's hands, and that helps to save his energy.

seems like he's doing things a bit differently than MDA was doing things.

Yeah every coach has his own ideas and Gentry is doing a good job. This isn't about Gentry vs MDA. It's about the positive impact MDA had on Nash and how in general MDA has spawned concepts that other coaches in pro n college ball are using. The playbook is practically unchanged. The knicks even said the plays were the same. They've slowed the pace and made some changes in the focus of the game but it's everything MDA taught Gentry and Nash etc.

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Pharzeone wrote:but...but I was told D'Antoni was the reason why he was good.

Have you ever wondered why Nash pleaded to have the team return to running MDA's system? It fits him the best and is the reason he reached MVP levels. You can talk crap all day about MDA's impact but it's a fact that MDA showed him how to play in this particular way and maximize his talent. He was always a very good PG which is why PHX wanted him but it was MDA who showed him just how good he could really be. Funny how players that played for MDA give him credit for helping them if they were smart enough to listen.

D'Antoni never had a Suns roster with this much depth, but Gentry's willingness to work in Goran Dragic, Jared Dudley and Louis Amundson last season fostered it. He made Robin Lopez a starting center at age 21, leading to the current 19-5 run.

When Porter was hired as the anti-D'Antoni, the Suns wanted an image change but not the drastic one that caused Porter to lose his players. Gentry has pulled off what Porter tried - using more bench, emphasizing defense and accepting a slower pace with more post-ups.

He communicates with players better, approaching them when he knows they are angry rather than avoiding confrontation. He even text-messages Amar'e Stoudemire.

Gentry lauds D'Antoni's offense but did alter it. The Suns run traditional sets when Nash is out and even with him at times. There is a "continuity" offense with the ball out of Nash's hands, and that helps to save his energy.

seems like he's doing things a bit differently than MDA was doing things.

Yeah every coach has his own ideas and Gentry is doing a good job. This isn't about Gentry vs MDA. It's about the positive impact MDA had on Nash and how in general MDA has spawned concepts that other coaches in pro n college ball are using. The playbook is practically unchanged. The knicks even said the plays were the same. They've slowed the pace and made some changes in the focus of the game but it's everything MDA taught Gentry and Nash etc.

i highly doubt MDA would have ever given someone like Robin Lopez a chance to start at the C position... the guy is slow as hell & can't shoot the perimeter J... the stuff about the improved communication is also poignant i think as well as the part about emphasizing defense & slowing down the pace... these are signs of a coach adapting to the roster instead of trying to adapt the roster to his system... Gentry seems to have adjusted to this well in Phoenix... yes, he gives MDA's system 80% of the credit, but there are subtle differences between him & MDA that seemingly the players in Phoenix are quite happy with.

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Pharzeone wrote:but...but I was told D'Antoni was the reason why he was good.

Have you ever wondered why Nash pleaded to have the team return to running MDA's system? It fits him the best and is the reason he reached MVP levels. You can talk crap all day about MDA's impact but it's a fact that MDA showed him how to play in this particular way and maximize his talent. He was always a very good PG which is why PHX wanted him but it was MDA who showed him just how good he could really be. Funny how players that played for MDA give him credit for helping them if they were smart enough to listen.

D'Antoni never had a Suns roster with this much depth, but Gentry's willingness to work in Goran Dragic, Jared Dudley and Louis Amundson last season fostered it. He made Robin Lopez a starting center at age 21, leading to the current 19-5 run.

When Porter was hired as the anti-D'Antoni, the Suns wanted an image change but not the drastic one that caused Porter to lose his players. Gentry has pulled off what Porter tried - using more bench, emphasizing defense and accepting a slower pace with more post-ups.

He communicates with players better, approaching them when he knows they are angry rather than avoiding confrontation. He even text-messages Amar'e Stoudemire.

Gentry lauds D'Antoni's offense but did alter it. The Suns run traditional sets when Nash is out and even with him at times. There is a "continuity" offense with the ball out of Nash's hands, and that helps to save his energy.

seems like he's doing things a bit differently than MDA was doing things.

Yeah every coach has his own ideas and Gentry is doing a good job. This isn't about Gentry vs MDA. It's about the positive impact MDA had on Nash and how in general MDA has spawned concepts that other coaches in pro n college ball are using. The playbook is practically unchanged. The knicks even said the plays were the same. They've slowed the pace and made some changes in the focus of the game but it's everything MDA taught Gentry and Nash etc.

i highly doubt MDA would have ever given someone like Robin Lopez a chance to start at the C position... the guy is slow as hell & can't shoot the perimeter J... the stuff about the improved communication is also poignant i think as well as the part about emphasizing defense & slowing down the pace... these are signs of a coach adapting to the roster instead of trying to adapt the roster to his system... Gentry seems to have adjusted to this well in Phoenix... yes, he gives MDA's system 80% of the credit, but there are subtle differences between him & MDA that seemingly the players in Phoenix are quite happy with.

It all sounds familiar to what they've been saying since MDA left. We'll see how far they go playing this way. In order to do better than MDA they'd have to actually win the Western Conf. finals. People tend to overlook that fact when they bash on MDA's coaching. He got to the West finals twice. Who knows how things might have gone if Amare hadn't needed Knee surgery. I just think this all gets overblown when you fail to get to the finals. People act like it's an easy thing to do and somehow MDA is a bit of a failure for not getting over the top.

djsunyc wrote:watch the last minute of that bulls/suns game and tell me if deron, cp3 or anybody else could do what he did.

nuff said.

Hey DJ...I remember the bet...JVG to the Nets for $1....News reports out today Jeff is their No. 1 target...Let see...Me think Jeff is a frontrunner...Unless the Russian gives him bank....

holfresh wrote:

djsunyc wrote:watch the last minute of that bulls/suns game and tell me if deron, cp3 or anybody else could do what he did.

nuff said.

Hey DJ...I remember the bet...JVG to the Nets for $1....News reports out today Jeff is their No. 1 target...Let see...Me think Jeff is a frontrunner...Unless the Russian gives him bank....

i want a brand new bill...no rips, scotch tape, or writing in marker...so you better make sure you got the funds in your checkings account...

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:You know it takes a LOT of adaptation to figure out how to win with Diaw, KT and Bell instead of Amare and Joe Johnson!!! Dude got to the WCF with that group! You think that doesn't show some kind of ability to reach players and get them to buy in and find a role? How much more could he have done to prove his ability to coach guys than that? Don't tell me the guy can't adapt.

It all sounds familiar to what they've been saying since MDA left. We'll see how far they go playing this way. In order to do better than MDA they'd have to actually win the Western Conf. finals. People tend to overlook that fact when they bash on MDA's coaching. He got to the West finals twice. Who knows how things might have gone if Amare hadn't needed Knee surgery. I just think this all gets overblown when you fail to get to the finals. People act like it's an easy thing to do and somehow MDA is a bit of a failure for not getting over the top.

the team that MDA took to the WCF in '05 had the league MVP Steve Nash in his prime, Amare Stoudamire before injury playing at the top echelon of the league among bigmen, another all NBA player in Shawn Marion, & Joe Johnson who averaged 20 ppg that season along with role players like Q Rich, Jim Jackson, Bo Outlaw, Leandro Barbosa, Steven Hunter & Jake Voskuhl... that's a stacked roster & they still got dominated by the Spurs in that series only managing to win 1 game... the Spurs beat them with fundamental play & tough, physical defense with guys like Duncan, Bowen, Manu, Horry & Mohammed.

San Antonio 101, Phoenix 95
Spurs Finish Off Suns; Heading Back to The Finals

PHOENIX, June 1 (Ticker) -- Tim Duncan and the San Antonio Spurs made it clear to the Phoenix Suns that defense wins championships.

Duncan had 31 points, 15 rebounds and three blocks as the Spurs returned to the NBA Finals for the third time in seven years with a 101-95 victory over the defenseless Phoenix Suns.

--------------

As they did all series, the Spurs had their hands full with Amare Stoudemire, who had a playoff career-high 42 points and 16 rebounds. But they made stops when they had to, which was more than the Suns could say.

"We're going to keep the (up-tempo) style, but we have got to get a lot better defensively," Suns coach Mike D'Antoni admitted.

seems to me the coach realizes he needs to get better defensively, but his teams rarely ever show it... words are just words unless you put them into action... otherwise it's just more of the same BS.

We've gone over this time and again, Nash and Amare are two of the worst defenders in the league. Anytime you have your 2 best players being your worst defenders RIGHT UP THE MIDDLE of your teams D, that is gonna be a problem. Not everyone on the team didn't defend tho. it's just convenient to blame MDA when it's also a huge part of the players responsibility to adjust over the course of a series and stop players that they should be familiar with. In addition to that it's not like they were playing scrubs who've never been there like they had never been that far before. The Spurs were seasoned and tough. "Duncan had 31 points, 15 rebounds and three blocks as the Spurs returned to the NBA Finals for the third time in seven years with a 101-95 victory over the defenseless Phoenix Suns."

DOn't you think that if you switched Duncan for Amare that things might be a bit different defensively? This isn't the current Amare we're talking about, but the young one that wasn't interested in defense, but had the nerve to complain about a lack of emphasis on D. Til this day he's still considered a less than interested defender aside from his blocked shots.

When MDA had Diaw, KT, Bell and Marion playing as a defensive unit they weren't terrible, just not all world. Still they got all the way to the WCF's and need I remind you of just how tough the west has been for all those years. It's not like they got lucky to get that far.

CrushAlot wrote:I posted an article on Amare in another thread. The article is essentially about how playing under D'Antoni stunted his development in certain areas of the game including defense, and post play. Here is a quote from it:

While the offense was wildly successful, the reliance on Steve Nash stunted Amare's growth as a player. Nash is so good at creating for others that his teammates rarely have the chance to create for themselves, which is something that many thought Amare was incapable of going into this season. It's no coincidence that, over in Dallas, Dirk Nowitzki did not turn into a superstar until Nash left for Phoenix. In 2003-04, Nash's final year with the Mavericks, Dirk averaged 21.8 per game. The following season he tallied 26.1 points per game, cementing his status as one of the game's premier scorers.

So, a few years under D'Antoni with a team led by Nash, neither rebounding, defense or a low-post game were expected of Amare, yet it was his inability in those three areas that had people most upset with the All-Star.

Which brings us to now. If all it took was two seasons with a coaching staff that cared about defense and rebounding to get Amare to be a complete player, one has to wonder how good he would have been if he had been drafted by a team like the Spurs, where Gregg Popovich not only expects defense and rebounding, but demands it.

Man what is this nonsense? So playing with Nash is detrimental to a bigman's career? Somehow it's MDA's fault Amare doesn't have much of a post up game? What I would say is that as efficient as MDA's teams in PHX were there's no reason to question the way he had them playing. The only thing that held Amare back was injury and Amare himself not playing with Nash under MDA.