Paladin55 wrote:

iSergio wrote:I'm very high on Toney Douglas. I actually think he's our best young player. Yes, better and more potential then both Danilo Gallinari and Wilson Chandler. I just love Douglas' defense and shooting. He's also fearless.

Not sure that he has more potential than those two, but his fearlessness/aggressiveness sets him apart from them at this point.

If you look at Gallo, Wilson, and TD, you see two guys- Douglas and Chandler, already at their physical peaks, IMO. TD just turned 24, by the way, and he is already a mature physical specimen. Wilson turns 23 in a couple of months, but he has been a mature athlete for a good time, now. Gallo is still growing and filling out at 21+. (I put Hill, by the way, a step above Gallo in physical maturation, but not at the levels of Chandler or Douglas.)

I think Gallinari has a lot of space (more than Douglas or Chandler)to grow both physically, and as a player, and he has also shown a lot of all around abilities that nobody thought he had, which leads me to think that he has only scratched the surface of his potential.

Chandler has the physical tools, and has had stretches where he has made me think that he is really coming to understand how to maximize his abilities on the court (much better shot selection and attention being given to his midrange game).

If we look at TD as a SG, he is already a near complete player. If we expect him to be a PG, he has a lot of work ahead of him. Whether he becomes better than Jennings depends on whether he can become a PG who comes to understand the "big picture" as a distributor (Bring out the old cliche' Can he make the players around him better?), and makes the right decisions as a shooter/scorer. I would love to see some more glimpses of him being a real PG before the season ends.

I think we lucked out with TD- I just hope that he can take that next step and become a guy who is able to orchestrate an offense and get about 8 APG with a minimum of turnovers.

Im not focused on # of assists--Im focused on efficiency of play. Maybe one night he has 10 assists--the next 2--as long as the quality of play is consistent and efficient. My example would be Tony Parker. He has never had an overwhelming number of assist totals but his quality of play from the PG position was a key conduit to their winning.

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Let's go easy there. TD is a better defensive player and you can make the case that he's better at scoring the ball at this point in their careers. But Jennings is by far a better playmaker, which is the number one requirement of a point guard, and he's three years younger. I'm going to have to place my chips on Jennings at this point.

I have curbed enthusiasm on both. Douglas is more mature so his learning curve in the NBA isnt as great. He's bigger and stronger than Jennings. He's a more polished BB player. 4 years at Florida. He was a featured scorer and the ACC defensive player of the year. Every year you see 4 year college players slip down because they dont have a 40 inch vert or a 7'4 wingspan but there are a ton of good players in the NBA that werent lotto picks. Hopefully we have 2 when we resign Lee.

Jennings shoots a lot of 3s, but his overall shooting % for the year has been dropping month by month and is now 37%. He does NOT have an NBA. He's 6'1 (maybe) and about 160 pounds. He's got a Jamal Crawford frame minus a couple inches. He's also not the playmaker people here make him out to be. He makes some really good passes and collects his assists but he's setting up guys off his own scoring, much like Marbury used to.

I would say Jennings has more raw talent and potential, but Douglas is a better player right now. Douglas is also clearly dedicated and a work horse.

Douglas definatly has Rondo type potential. For me, thats the hope. I think Jennings has Nash type potential, but has much longer to go before reaching it.

I'm very happy w/ Douglas. We needed to see that Walsh could find players like this and that bodes well. If I had to pick though you have to take Jennings.

great breakdown fish. I like TD as well, but as you said, he has about 4 years on jennings, and while it is no given that jennings will be better just because he is younger, you do have to account for a learning curve.. but what would you rather have? I guess it comes down to that..

I also think jennings playmaking ability was a bit overblown, the same with derrick rose, but i would take jennings over rose.. that is just me tho...

One thing I like about Douglas is that he seems to have a toughness you can't teach. those types of intangibles they don't measure at the combines. I am just happy to have a few young players on the knicks that really have a chance to become good players. douglas, gallo, chandler and walker... And one that is already there... Lee..

misterearl wrote:earthmansurfer - what did you base your "maturity" rating on?

Research or gut feeling?

There is no such thing as Basketball IQ. Just unforced turnovers and clutch shots under two minutes.

Basically it's from watching him play 1st, but second it's from those things Fishmike mentioned. (Family, upbringing, etc.). He was raised to be successful in a sense and the maturity from that shows...

Paladin55 -

Should we make a big deal about their 4 year age gap?

To a point. Jennings is not going to get those 4 years of college experience, which involve more than basketball. So, in one way it isn't the big advantage that others say. Then again, we don't know how much better Jennings will get. He sure has the higher upside, at least on the offensive side of the ball.

When we look at age it's more than just "4 more years" to progress as a basketball player, mature physically, more upside potential, etc. There is that underlying foundation that if you don't have - the money, fame, women, etc. can get to a pro athlete in a bad way. I'm not saying it will with Jennings, heck I like the guy, but with where we picked Douglas, it was a steal, at least thus far.

Ask me again in 4 years

but toney is very impressive in his own right. i think he can be very good. but i also don't think he's the kind of player mike d'antoni wants at the point. but hopefully d'antoni can freaking get over what he wants at some point and work with what he has.

Moonangie wrote:

Markji wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Childs2Dudley wrote:Weren't you saying Douglas was nothing special when he was drafted?

Yes I did and I was wrong.

Briggs, great that you manned-up about your opinion of Douglas from last year to now. You've gained added respect in my book.

Word. Nice to see it, Briggs. I will definitely have reduced skepticism when I read your more alarming posts. It's a clear sign of a thinking man when he can admit a mistake and adapt to new circumstances/information.

And I agree about Douglas. It would seem we got a bargain for that $3mil. Let's hope Jimmy D. has a few million more for a late 1st rounder this year (i.e., for a shot blocking big, perhaps).

3mm + his salary is a cheap investment for the NBA. TD was selected so low that his salary combined with what they paid for the pick equals something in the low 2mm$ range for the first 3 years. Is 2mm a year worth Douglas---yes.

djsunyc wrote:douglas just turned 24, jennings is still 20. that's a pretty important 4 years of both physical and mental growth.

another thing to consider is that Jennings has been getting major minutes all season. Could be hitting that rookie wall...TD still has "fresh" legs

martin wrote:Haven't seen Jennings play at all this year.

Could someone do a comparison? Defense, quickness, passing, running team, strength, shooting? what's left?

Who would be more attractive for the top free agents? Does potential win over a proven commodity (in college) and defense?

sebstar wrote:Wow, a Briggs overreaction thread where he actually throws the Knicks a bone. Interesting. Never thought I'd see that.

Too bad Douglas isnt close to Jennings, but I'm encouraged by Douglas' late season, garbage time play and we'll see if he can continue to develop next season. In the meantime, I'll watch Jennings do his thing in the playoffs.

Seb all these Jennings naysayers know if this kid was drafted by the knicks many would have called him a hall o famer after the 55 pt game. These guys crack me up!