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Donnie accused of "insider trading"?
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sebstar
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3/22/2010  7:55 PM
TMS wrote:
sebstar wrote:
TMS wrote:
playa2 wrote:David "the don" Stern would have to play apart in making this come to fruition. Back in 1985 was the last time he gave his blessing with Patrick Ewing on draft day with the frozen envelope.

i remember all the talk about how we were going to win the lottery last year too because Stern was in on the collusion to get NY back to relevance.

Bro. We've heard that every year the Knicks were in the running for a decent lotto pick. Its just NY envy and hate.

i agree, every year it's the same nonsense... but u gotta admit if we end up getting Lebron this summer there's gonna be some legitimate reason to be skeptical... who the hell gives up all those assets without something in hand? Donnie's known to be willing to take flyers on young talent but when has he ever traded away multiple draft picks just to clear cap space in his entire tenure as a GM? maybe there have been instances but i can't think of any off the top of my head, can u?

Oh I agree. He knows. Well, his punk ass better know something for making such a crazy ass deal.

But if the Knicks were smart they can tap into all the baseless conspiracy theories that have floated around over the years and create a "boy cries wolf" argument.

My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
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BRIGGS
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3/22/2010  7:55 PM
This Nike deal that is supposed to be floating around with LBJ must be attached to the Knicks. I still remember that blue and orange bird in the LBJ ad last year. What if Nike said 200mm $ to you LBJ if you go to NY and ad in a max contract from ny--5 years take 300mm$. If you listen to Lebron he talks about winning but he said any club he is on will win. He is very money hungry and maybe the $$$ here is to good to walk away from.
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TMS
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3/22/2010  7:58 PM
sebstar wrote:
TMS wrote:
sebstar wrote:
TMS wrote:
playa2 wrote:David "the don" Stern would have to play apart in making this come to fruition. Back in 1985 was the last time he gave his blessing with Patrick Ewing on draft day with the frozen envelope.

i remember all the talk about how we were going to win the lottery last year too because Stern was in on the collusion to get NY back to relevance.

Bro. We've heard that every year the Knicks were in the running for a decent lotto pick. Its just NY envy and hate.

i agree, every year it's the same nonsense... but u gotta admit if we end up getting Lebron this summer there's gonna be some legitimate reason to be skeptical... who the hell gives up all those assets without something in hand? Donnie's known to be willing to take flyers on young talent but when has he ever traded away multiple draft picks just to clear cap space in his entire tenure as a GM? maybe there have been instances but i can't think of any off the top of my head, can u?

Oh I agree. He knows. Well, his punk ass better know something for making such a crazy ass deal.

But if the Knicks were smart they can tap into all the baseless conspiracy theories that have floated around over the years and create a "boy cries wolf" argument.

if anything Knicks fans have a good case for collusion AGAINST the Knicks after all the crappy luck we've had the past 10 years.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
sebstar
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3/22/2010  7:58 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/22/2010  8:07 PM
BRIGGS wrote:This Nike deal that is supposed to be floating around with LBJ must be attached to the Knicks. I still remember that blue and orange bird in the LBJ ad last year. What if Nike said 200mm $ to you LBJ if you go to NY and ad in a max contract from ny--5 years take 300mm$. If you listen to Lebron he talks about winning but he said any club he is on will win. He is very money hungry and maybe the $$$ here is to good to walk away from.

I think that blue and orange deal was in anticipation of Cleveland wearing those 80s throwbacks a lot this year. Blue and Orange shoes, too.

My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
fishmike
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3/22/2010  8:04 PM
BRIGGS wrote:This Nike deal that is supposed to be floating around with LBJ must be attached to the Knicks. I still remember that blue and orange bird in the LBJ ad last year. What if Nike said 200mm $ to you LBJ if you go to NY and ad in a max contract from ny--5 years take 300mm$. If you listen to Lebron he talks about winning but he said any club he is on will win. He is very money hungry and maybe the $$$ here is to good to walk away from.
i have said this a couple times. Also he's been regarded as a disapointment as far as his sneaker sales. Going to a market of 2-3mm people to a market of 30-40mm people is a good start.

Walsh's history is pretty shrewd. He knows something. Doesnt mean it will happen, but he knows something

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
nixluva
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3/22/2010  8:58 PM
Knowing the thinking of a FA isn't the same as making a deal or offering a deal or even discussing a deal. They can't legislate intent based on a players preference. So long as no actual meeting or discussion on specifics or framework took place how can they prove the Knicks did anything illegal?

If Lebron's rep had a convo with someone he Knicks have knowledge of saying that they liked NY and would seriously consider going if they had another top player, there was no direct contact or negotiation, so I can't see how the league could legislate. It's a good thing for us tho.

sebstar
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3/22/2010  9:18 PM
nixluva wrote:Knowing the thinking of a FA isn't the same as making a deal or offering a deal or even discussing a deal. They can't legislate intent based on a players preference. So long as no actual meeting or discussion on specifics or framework took place how can they prove the Knicks did anything illegal?

If Lebron's rep had a convo with someone he Knicks have knowledge of saying that they liked NY and would seriously consider going if they had another top player, there was no direct contact or negotiation, so I can't see how the league could legislate. It's a good thing for us tho.

I'm pretty sure that would be considered tampering. Representatives from another organization arent even allowed to answer questions about potential free agents, to the media or otherwise.

My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
Moonangie
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3/23/2010  10:41 AM
Perhaps the CEO of Nike let Donnie know the scope of the contingent deal they would offer to Lebron. Nike gave the King $100mil for his last contract (as a Cav) so it would seem $200mil would be possible given the size of the NYC market and the brand reach they would achieve by having the King based here. Lebron is about to re-up with Nike for another 8-10 years, so it would seem that if Nike cares about improving sneaker sales of the Lebron shoes, they would be pushing him to NYC. I doubt Donnie would throw his reputation into the trash by colluding. He doesn't need to do that to land Lebron. Just a wink will do the trick.
djsunyc
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3/23/2010  10:51 AM
is there any doubt? stern has been pulling strings in many instances. look no further than how crooked nba referees are and the mandates they get.

lebron to ny was signed sealed and delivered 2 years ago when stern basically replaced alot of knicks officials with nba employees. why else do you think d'antoni picked ny over chicago? why else do you think d'antoni only had a choice of ny or chicago? is it a coincidence that chicago gets the #1 overall pick after d'antoni chose ny? and why else would a 95 year old man leave the only place he's been in 20 years?

Moonangie
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3/23/2010  10:58 AM
djsunyc wrote:is there any doubt? stern has been pulling strings in many instances. look no further than how crooked nba referees are and the mandates they get.

lebron to ny was signed sealed and delivered 2 years ago when stern basically replaced alot of knicks officials with nba employees. why else do you think d'antoni picked ny over chicago? why else do you think d'antoni only had a choice of ny or chicago? is it a coincidence that chicago gets the #1 overall pick after d'antoni chose ny? and why else would a 95 year old man leave the only place he's been in 20 years?

Wow, DJ. That's a pretty cynical take on this league. While there may be some kernels of truth in your summation, I would have a hard time continuing to watch NBA hoops if it was all such a rigged deal. I doubt the string pulling is quite as overt as you suggest.

But I will suspend my judgment of Stern (I actually loathe the guy... he is like the short dude who always wanted to play hoops, but couldn't, so instead he simply took over the league and now rules it as a tyrant) in the hopes that he somehow returns the Knicks to relevance. The winter is just too long to wait for baseball season to start. And I think if the Knicks get Lebron it will help my kids become interested in hoops that doesn't take place in March, which can only improve their games.

djsunyc
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3/23/2010  11:02 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/23/2010  11:03 AM
nba has engineered shifts in power for the longest.

giving ewing to the knicks.
allowing tough physical play so ny can get to an elite level.
then changed that when the game started getting too boring to watch.
making sure jordan's bulls got every call...and giving the knicks the call the year jordan wasn't there.
having the "good guy" image spurs win all those titles during the "thug" era.
hometown boy lebron to the cavs.
gasol to the lakers.
kg to boston.

and now that the economy is in bad shape and the nba owners are losing money hand over fist, a major shakeup is needed to get money flowing back to the league again...hence lebron to ny.

Marv
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3/23/2010  11:05 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/23/2010  11:05 AM
then out of concern for international commerce shouldn't stern try to do something for those god-awful raptors?
s3231
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3/23/2010  11:05 AM
fishmike wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:This Nike deal that is supposed to be floating around with LBJ must be attached to the Knicks. I still remember that blue and orange bird in the LBJ ad last year. What if Nike said 200mm $ to you LBJ if you go to NY and ad in a max contract from ny--5 years take 300mm$. If you listen to Lebron he talks about winning but he said any club he is on will win. He is very money hungry and maybe the $$$ here is to good to walk away from.
i have said this a couple times. Also he's been regarded as a disapointment as far as his sneaker sales. Going to a market of 2-3mm people to a market of 30-40mm people is a good start.

Walsh's history is pretty shrewd. He knows something. Doesnt mean it will happen, but he knows something

100% agreed. Anyone that looks at Donnie's GM history knows he isn't the type of guy to trade prospects & picks just to shed salary. Whether he knows Nike is going to offer LeBron a ton of money or whatever, he absolutely knows something about this free agent class we don't know. I kept saying in another thread a few weeks ago that I'm convinced Nike and LeBron are going to partner on a new brand and the best place to do that is in NY. Hell, I even splurged for season tix next year, that's how much faith I have in Donnie to at the very least get this team back to the playoffs by next season.

One quote that stuck with me was right after the McGrady trade went down and the media kept asking about protection on the picks, Donnie said “Even if we swap [in 2011], we have a pick, I don’t think that’s a big risk if we can get the players we think we can get.”

I'm convinced that even if it's not LeBron coming, Donnie has some sort of backup plan that he knows is a given.

"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
Moonangie
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3/23/2010  11:07 AM
Dang, that Stern is one heckuva conspiratorial mo-fo. I assume he was involved in Kennedy's assassination and Scott Brown winning the Senate seat in Massachusetts? Whatever the case may be, I want Lebron enough to suspend my ethical nature and look the other way. But just this once.
sebstar
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3/23/2010  11:11 AM
Marv wrote:then out of concern for international commerce shouldn't stern try to do something for those god-awful raptors?

ether.

My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
djsunyc
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3/23/2010  11:23 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/23/2010  11:25 AM
sebstar wrote:
Marv wrote:then out of concern for international commerce shouldn't stern try to do something for those god-awful raptors?

ether.

smh at you two for the total lack of understanding...

why do you think colangelo went to toronto?

this was during the hey day of stern's flirtation with nba europe.

so what does he do? he sends colangelo (a guy with many euro connections) to toronto to experiment with the idea. immediately he hires maurizio gherardini (the godfather of euro basketball) and is awarded the #1 overall pick in a down year of the draft which just so happens to include bargnani - making him the first ever euro pick taken #1. coincidence? i think not.

he then goes out and gets countless international players.

the economy then hit the recession and all thoughts of nba europe are out the window for the time being.

stern doesn't care about toronto in any other way b/c ratings and so forth in the canadian market mean nothing to the US advertiser and ABC/ESPN or the US born basketball player.

ether +1...

AnubisADL
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3/23/2010  12:21 PM
Sadly nothing is rigged.

Donnie was looking at the worse case scenario. If we didnt dump Jefferies we'd likely lose David Lee if we signed a max deal. The Jefferies deal was all about keeping Lee and adding a max type player this summer.

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TMS
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3/23/2010  3:17 PM
AnubisADL wrote:Sadly nothing is rigged.

Donnie was looking at the worse case scenario. If we didnt dump Jefferies we'd likely lose David Lee if we signed a max deal. The Jefferies deal was all about keeping Lee and adding a max type player this summer.

i tend to agree, that's the more likely scenario... that's why he's already bringing up the "flexibility" card & suggesting that the 2 max FA scenario is an invention of the media while already looking ahead to 2011... he probably knows there's a good chance that Lebron, Wade & Bosh don't end up signing here this summer, in which case he intends to make sure we have the cap space to hold onto David Lee while also bringing in another Allstar calibre player to add to the roster, probably Joe Johnson, who MDA has already said he loves.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Juice
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3/23/2010  3:31 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/23/2010  3:33 PM
djsunyc wrote:is there any doubt? stern has been pulling strings in many instances. look no further than how crooked nba referees are and the mandates they get.

lebron to ny was signed sealed and delivered 2 years ago when stern basically replaced alot of knicks officials with nba employees. why else do you think d'antoni picked ny over chicago? why else do you think d'antoni only had a choice of ny or chicago? is it a coincidence that chicago gets the #1 overall pick after d'antoni chose ny? and why else would a 95 year old man leave the only place he's been in 20 years?

Stern Publicly said he wants Lebron to stay in Cleveland. The reason........ he's more interested in every Franchise being as profitable as possible than for a small select few to be. Notice the Jordan blurb here to who won in Chicago and became the sports most iconic figure playing in the midwest. Where were you when Stern came out and spoke on this?....


Says Stern about James:

"You know, he hasn't won anything yet but he may be the best player ever

to descend to this planet. It's a delight to watch him; it's a delight

to watch him grow, to see his width and breadth, in terms of his

interest and capacities. He's a great kid and a great player."

Referring to observers who claim James is over-rated, Stern says, with a reference to Michael Jordan:

"He may be the best player ever to have played. Michael might dispute

that, but he has a lot of canvas yet on which to paint. I have no doubt

the picture is going to be beautiful."

James can become an unrestricted free agent after this season. Asked if he has any guess where James will play next season and beyond, Stern replies:

"None whatsoever, although I hope it's in Cleveland."


Which Stern shouldn't be talking along these lines whatsoever but this doesn't sound like a commissioner who is doing everything to assure Lebron lands in New York. Also it could be argued Stern has assisted Ferry in making some very low risk high reward trades in Shaq/Jamison. I doubt it though.

As to our GM's inside info please this is all speculation by Sheridan and not an ounce of facts here because if so then why....


Our GM would have went immediately to Dolan with the inside info. Not to mention all the way up to the point of the trade deadline it was assumed Lebron was coming here without much angle, now that the trade was made it's because an angle finally surfaced.... and it was 2 Max all along....LOL

Most critics feel Lebron has everything he needs to win a chip right now. Guess what he doesn't have a 2nd Max player on his team. We had cap space coming the following season. Why would Lebron feel a 2nd Max is needed or even us for example, if all our assets remained in tact? Why give all that away? You think Lebron has that naive of a basketball mind? Seriously Lebron + Jordan Hill/2011 swap pick value of Wilson Chandler/2012 pick value of Gallo and/or chandler>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2 Max 27yrs of age average. I mean did Lebron specify who that Max player would be for him? Wade is already on several records for saying "I Will Help Miami Recruit", Amar'e has publicly said "I'd like to play in Florida", and Bosh has said "Why Not Build Around Me."

So really why trade what we traded for a chance at Johnson/Gay/Boozer. We should have told Lebron's camp "HELL NO!" You want to come here well come here because you truly want to be here.

and

If he actually had inside info he wouldn't have got cold feet over making the Rockets deal. He flat out said he thought our deal with them was dead with the Rockets after the Bulls game when he first heard they had a deal in place with the Kings. It was then he decided to get back into the frey. This tells me he doesn't have any inside info because seriously if Lebron's camp says I'm coming if you clear room for two maxes you make the deal with the Rockets right away. Since many feel we didn't quite give up as much as suggested since the 2011 pick is a swap and we have a strong feeling to be good by 2012.
djsunyc
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3/23/2010  3:33 PM
people can say whatever they want in the press. i really don't pay any attention to it. imho, this has been engineered by the nba offices for a while. does one expect stern to actually say "i would like to see him in ny?"
Donnie accused of "insider trading"?

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