martin wrote:

sebstar wrote:The Bender situation was truly bizarre. How does a broken down cripple, by NBA standards, get playing time over your lottery pick?

Let's take this at another angle. Let's say you are the coach. GM just signs a guy and tell you he thinks said player can help the team.

You have no practices left and didn't have a chance in training camp to see what he can bring. Dude was supposed to have a world of talent but hasn't played in 4 years.

As a coach, what do you do? Not play him? What's your plan of attach here? Also note that in his first 2 games back, he played pretty darn well for the minutes he got and considering all the other circumstances.

what's you next move?

C'mon family, you practically answered your own question in your description of Bender and his inactivity for four years.

It's simple what D'Antoni's reaction should have been if he were right thinking: "Hey Donnie, while I appreciate you have an affinity towards Bender, developing the confidence, skill level, and experience of our top draft pick is a higher priority than hoping-against-hope that we can create a feel good story with Bender. I'll give Bender spot minutes, but not at the expense of Hill."

And look how the story is predictably developing. Bender is out for the year and likely his career is over, while Hill is producing and beginning to scratch at the potential that made him a high-end lottery pick.

martin wrote:

sebstar wrote:The Bender situation was truly bizarre. How does a broken down cripple, by NBA standards, get playing time over your lottery pick?

Let's take this at another angle. Let's say you are the coach. GM just signs a guy and tell you he thinks said player can help the team.

You have no practices left and didn't have a chance in training camp to see what he can bring. Dude was supposed to have a world of talent but hasn't played in 4 years.

As a coach, what do you do? Not play him? What's your plan of attach here? Also note that in his first 2 games back, he played pretty darn well for the minutes he got and considering all the other circumstances.

what's you next move?

how about letting the new guy win his playing time in practice against other guys who were competing for playing time before throwing him out there right off the bat w/1 practice under his belt when he clearly didn't deserve those minutes like he said was his mantra? if the argument against playing Jordan Hill was that he wasn't ready, then how can u possibly defend MDA's decision to play J Bender when he could barely even run up & down the floor?

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:

martin wrote:

sebstar wrote:The Bender situation was truly bizarre. How does a broken down cripple, by NBA standards, get playing time over your lottery pick?

Let's take this at another angle. Let's say you are the coach. GM just signs a guy and tell you he thinks said player can help the team.

You have no practices left and didn't have a chance in training camp to see what he can bring. Dude was supposed to have a world of talent but hasn't played in 4 years.

As a coach, what do you do? Not play him? What's your plan of attach here? Also note that in his first 2 games back, he played pretty darn well for the minutes he got and considering all the other circumstances.

what's you next move?

how about letting the new guy win his playing time in practice against other guys who were competing for playing time before throwing him out there right off the bat w/1 practice under his belt when he clearly didn't deserve those minutes like he said was his mantra? if the argument against playing Jordan Hill was that he wasn't ready, then how can u possibly defend MDA's decision to play J Bender when he could barely even run up & down the floor?

realistically, there are no more practices that are worth it at this point.

Hill is signed through the year and beyond. Bender is not and so you gotta see him on the court at some point.

He didn't work out and his minutes (all of 10 per game) were cut. He tried and failed.

At the expense of what, tho. The Bender experiment, and putting him higher on the depth chart, was WAY more costly than you're letting on.

And I'm just not getting how a player in his late-20s, who was a bust when healthy, and coming off devastating injuries that has kept him out of the league for four years (an NBA eternity) gets burn over a lottery pick.

Its insanity and the story unfolded in predictable fashion. Perhaps we should be in the basketball business and not the fairy tale business, but thats giving the Knicks too much credit. Straight up, there are pockets of incompetence in the evaluation process of D'Antoni specifically. And this situation is proving that.

Per Game Glossary ▪ CSV ▪ PRE ▪ ▪ ▪ Game Finder
Season Age Tm Lg G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1999-00 19 IND NBA 24 1 5.4 1.0 2.9 .329 0.1 0.5 .167 0.7 1.0 .667 0.2 0.7 0.9 0.1 0.0 0.2 0.3 0.8 2.7
2000-01 20 IND NBA 59 7 9.7 1.1 3.2 .355 0.2 0.7 .268 0.8 1.2 .735 0.2 1.0 1.3 0.5 0.1 0.5 0.7 1.2 3.3
2001-02 21 IND NBA 78 17 21.1 2.5 5.9 .430 0.6 1.6 .360 1.8 2.3 .773 0.8 2.3 3.1 0.8 0.2 0.6 1.2 1.9 7.4
2002-03 22 IND NBA 46 2 17.8 2.4 5.5 .441 0.4 1.2 .358 1.3 1.8 .714 0.9 2.0 2.9 0.9 0.2 1.2 0.9 1.9 6.6
2003-04 23 IND NBA 21 0 12.9 2.4 5.0 .472 0.4 1.0 .409 1.9 2.2 .830 0.4 1.5 1.9 0.4 0.2 0.5 1.6 1.1 7.0
2004-05 24 IND NBA 7 0 13.3 2.3 5.7 .400 0.1 0.7 .200 0.4 0.9 .500 0.7 1.3 2.0 0.6 0.1 0.3 1.4 1.3 5.1
2005-06 25 IND NBA 2 0 10.5 2.0 2.5 .800 0.0 0.0 1.0 1.0 1.000 0.0 2.0 2.0 1.0 0.0 0.5 0.0 1.0 5.0

Nalod wrote:
Goal: Cap space

Reason: Be able to sign two max contracts or on max and give that player some toys to play with.

Before the trade: We have room for one max deal and can't resign Dlee to play with.

After the trade. Room for Dlee and a MLE or a full max player like Bosh or Wade.

Before the trade. There is no guarantee of anyting.

After the trade. Still no guarantee, but more cap is more opportunities.

The point: in a way, to do this deal we had to trade JHill. Walsh don't want to do nor any fans. Im sure MDA would like to have him in a year or two. IN a year or two don't work.

It boils down to Jhill for (in concept) Dlee or Bosh to go along with Lebron. Lebron don't come unless we can fill the roster.

So Jhill, a nice player in the future had to go.

We also gave up a draft pick and swapped another..In essence mortgaging our immediate future...We had Curry and JJ coming off the books in 2011...This kind of move can only be made if something under the table is going down...This is a huge gamble, an Isiah type gamble...I think we have learned that's no way to run a ballclub...

sebstar wrote:So whether Bender was hurt all those years is neither here nor there. Bottom line is there is overwhelming evidence that suggests that he really wasnt all that good, as he simply took advantage of the scouting culture of the times that went ga-ga over raw, high schoolers trying in vein to find the next KG.

TMS wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Goal: Cap space

Reason: Be able to sign two max contracts or on max and give that player some toys to play with.

Before the trade: We have room for one max deal and can't resign Dlee to play with.

After the trade. Room for Dlee and a MLE or a full max player like Bosh or Wade.

Before the trade. There is no guarantee of anyting.

After the trade. Still no guarantee, but more cap is more opportunities.

The point: in a way, to do this deal we had to trade JHill. Walsh don't want to do nor any fans. Im sure MDA would like to have him in a year or two. IN a year or two don't work.

It boils down to Jhill for (in concept) Dlee or Bosh to go along with Lebron. Lebron don't come unless we can fill the roster.

So Jhill, a nice player in the future had to go.

We also gave up a draft pick and swapped another..In essence mortgaging our immediate future...We had Curry and JJ coming off the books in 2011...This kind of move can only be made if something under the table is going down...This is a huge gamble, an Isiah type gamble...I think we have learned that's no way to run a ballclub...

if there is something under the table, Donnie better hope Stern doesn't catch wind of it or else we could be giving up even more 1st round picks down the road.

Stern could be in on it as well...For the life of me, I can't explain the Gasol to Lakers trade...I don't even think they had to give up draft picks...Only the Knicks...

djsunyc wrote:you don't think stern is in on the whole thing?

he's the one that instigated the whole thing.

(Stern checks NBA accounting books): "$400M loss this past session!? Fuck it, BronBron going to NY. Classic LA-NY Finals for a few years. Do good for ratings.

TMS wrote:

holfresh wrote:

TMS wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Goal: Cap space

Reason: Be able to sign two max contracts or on max and give that player some toys to play with.

Before the trade: We have room for one max deal and can't resign Dlee to play with.

After the trade. Room for Dlee and a MLE or a full max player like Bosh or Wade.

Before the trade. There is no guarantee of anyting.

After the trade. Still no guarantee, but more cap is more opportunities.

The point: in a way, to do this deal we had to trade JHill. Walsh don't want to do nor any fans. Im sure MDA would like to have him in a year or two. IN a year or two don't work.

It boils down to Jhill for (in concept) Dlee or Bosh to go along with Lebron. Lebron don't come unless we can fill the roster.

So Jhill, a nice player in the future had to go.

We also gave up a draft pick and swapped another..In essence mortgaging our immediate future...We had Curry and JJ coming off the books in 2011...This kind of move can only be made if something under the table is going down...This is a huge gamble, an Isiah type gamble...I think we have learned that's no way to run a ballclub...

if there is something under the table, Donnie better hope Stern doesn't catch wind of it or else we could be giving up even more 1st round picks down the road.

Stern could be in on it as well...For the life of me, I can't explain the Gasol to Lakers trade...I don't even think they had to give up draft picks...Only the Knicks...

if Stern was in on it why would we have to pay such a high price just for cap space this summer?

btw, Gasol to the Lakers wasn't such a bad trade when u consider all the salary relief it got a struggling Memphis franchise along w/some good young talent & draft picks... i'm pretty sure they're perfectly happy w/how Pau Gasol's brother Marc has worked out for them this season... Pau wasn't taking that franchise anywhere so what's the point in having that albatross weighing down their payroll for several years?

That trade will always go down as the most shady of them all

Nalod wrote:

Some coaches don't play rookies until they have earned it or seasoned enough.

TD is a great example, the guy is playing great now. Shouldn't we be happy he has matured fast than lament on the unknown like if he played early and lost his confidence?
JHill was likley going to get more time.

.